Legal definition of a woman

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Who_so_ever said:
I'm thinking that back in the age of the founding fathers, this issue was seldom seen, and when it was.... likely treated as a mental illness.
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People weren't so snoopy and clothes weren't as revealing. I'll bet a lot of people "passed" for whatever they wanted to be.

I never got to play on the sports teams because I wasn't that good. I think the Supreme Court ought to look into this unfairness!
 

Definition of a woman: One who is born with a ****** and internal female organs. But I have a friend who was born with both sets of organs. She is what used to be known as a hermaphrodite, now called "intersex". She is divorced (from a man) and has an adopted son (she couldn't have children). Since I've known her, she's expressed being attracted to women.

She didn't find out that what she has wasn't normal, and in fact what the condition actually is, until she was grown. Her parents never told her. But in retrospect, she remembers her parents having a conversation about what public bathroom she should use and things of that nature. Her mother was a very smart woman, but I think not telling her daughter sooner was a disservice.
 
Mitch86 said:
One is DEFINITELY a male if one has a MALE SEX ORGAN and DEFINITELY a female if one has a FEMALE SEX ORGAN. All other combinations sh nature is k ow to be wo ky.ould be banned as total INSANITY! The only species with TWO sex organs are EARTHWORMS!
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Unfortunately that is not always the case. See the boxer at the 2024 Olympics. Nature has been known to be wonky.
 
I think everyone should feel safe and included. The lawsuit sounds like it was about when there was like a quota for how many men and how many women, whether to count a trans person as their 'biological' sex or their preferred gender. I bet if a trans woman is counted toward the men's quota the men will complain, and if she is counted toward the women's quota the women will complain.

Though the words used get so confusing because biologically a trans person is trans, not specifically cis woman or cis man. I'm sure there has always been a small percentage of people who were trans and just maybe they were considered to be a particularly masculine woman or particularly feminine man.

Science is being done in the subject and hopefully eventually everyone will agree we are all human and it isn't a moral issue if some people have a mixture of gender traits, it is just more of normal biological diversity. One interesting study showed that trans women (including before any gender treatments) could smell an odor that men cannot, so it seems that there is definitely real biology involved, not just feelings or thoughts.
 
HoneyNut said:
I think everyone should feel safe and included. The lawsuit sounds like it was about when there was like a quota for how many men and how many women, whether to count a trans person as their 'biological' sex or their preferred gender. I bet if a trans woman is counted toward the men's quota the men will complain, and if she is counted toward the women's quota the women will complain.

Though the words used get so confusing because biologically a trans person is trans, not specifically cis woman or cis man. I'm sure there has always been a small percentage of people who were trans and just maybe they were considered to be a particularly masculine woman or particularly feminine man.

Science is being done in the subject and hopefully eventually everyone will agree we are all human and it isn't a moral issue if some people have a mixture of gender traits, it is just more of normal biological diversity. One interesting study showed that trans women (including before any gender treatments) could smell an odor that men cannot, so it seems that there is definitely real biology involved, not just feelings or thoughts.
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good post thanks!
 
Mitch86 said:
One is DEFINITELY a male if one has a MALE SEX ORGAN and DEFINITELY a female if one has a FEMALE SEX ORGAN. All other combinations should be banned as total INSANITY! The only species with TWO sex organs are EARTHWORMS!
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Not true about the only species with two sets of sex organs. Read my reply #29. Also I remember that when my son was about 8, he was hospitalized because he needed surgery. I heard the nurses talking about a baby that was still in the hospital who had both male and female organs.

According to Google Gemini (AI) It is estimated that 0.015% to 0.018% of people in the world are born with that condition. That tasks parents with making the difficult decision of whether to leave it alone, or have their child have surgery to correct the condition. And if surgery.... which gender will be chosen.
 
The "legal" definition of a woman is fluid. First one way, then another. Depending on who is head of _________.
God made them male and female. He defined what a woman was and nothing the people or leaders say will make it any different.
 
22 Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib[a] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.


23 The man said,

“This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;
she shall be called ‘woman,’
for she was taken out of man.”

24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.

couldn't get much closer than that - how would you tell the difference - well for many of us the difference is exciting ; challenging and for a while enrapturing?? - yes the fun and love is immense but nothing wrong with all the variations inbetween or don't we want to share??
 
I can not bad mouth the transgender as I can only imagine the hell one goes goes through. However, society can not and should not 'change the rules' simply because someone decided to do things differently. Sports- they should be banned . But they could have trans sports and compete against each other. ;)
 
Capt Lightning said:
From BBC news
  • The UK Supreme Court rules that the legal definition of a woman is based on biological sex
  • Judges say the "concept of sex is binary" while cautioning that the landmark ruling should not be seen as victory of one side over another.
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This argument seems very simple to me, it all comes down to semantics.

Gender? There are as many genders as one wants to define.

Sex? There are two, with a minuscule amount of anomalies which aren't simply by choice.

A Trans woman is, by gender, a trans woman. I have no problem with that, and they should have equal rights to everyone else. They are not a woman. They are a trans woman. Same for trans men.

I do think this is a dangerous slippery slope. A trans woman might look like a woman. But often that is due to surgical changes they've made, and drugs they take. If we accept they are actual women, then where does it end? If they come up with a drug that makes me look like a Zebra, can I actually BE a zebra? I think not.

The other element is the whole woman's movement, and all they've achieved. Accepting trans women as actual women undermines the strides they've made, imo. What is equality, when a make can get some surgery, take some drugs, and gain entitlement to everything women has fought for?

Mostly this seems to focus on sports. No trans woman should be able to compete in the woman's category. Why? Because they're trans women, not actual women. We shouldn't rob actual women of their achievements, let the celebrate in their own class.

Finally, I'll note that this topic is a real problem for my wife and I. She would disagree with me, and strongly. But I have thought about it long and hard, and I just can't get to a point where this makes sense. I'm a man, and while I might decide I want to live as a woman, I can never be an actual woman.

That's my view, and while peace at home on the subject would be to accept Trans as the sex they profess, I just can't.
 
I agree Redalert - I wouldn't have any issue with trans people competing against each other - problem is there probably wouldnt be enough competitors though.
also no problem in any competition which is mixed genders - is only a problem in women's sports.
 
VaughanJB said:
The other element is the whole woman's movement, and all they've achieved. Accepting trans women as actual women undermines the strides they've made, imo. What is equality, when a make can get some surgery, take some drugs, and gain entitlement to everything women has fought for?
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I don't see how that is an issue - the women's movement was about equality for everyone - equal pay,rights, opportunities etc - how does trans gendered people undermine that?
A regular male and a transgendered male have the entitlements the women's movement have fought for already.

Women's sports is an issue because of the biological advantage being biologically male brings in pace, strength, power.
 
January said:
the women's movement was about equality for everyone
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Respectfully, it wasn't. It was about equality for everyone, in the context of men having advantages over women. It was everyone in the context of the two sexes not being discriminated against. Women fought for the right to be equal to men, who were the advantaged. It wasn't about everyone in the context of men who get surgery and take drugs to appear to be a woman. Those people already had privilege, they're men.

ps: I have no issue with trans people being protected. I only have issue with them being considered as the opposite sex. I don't think they should be discriminated against. However, when it comes to, say, bathrooms, men go to men's room, and women go to the women's. Some men wear pink sweaters, other men dresses - they're still men.
 
yes- it was i n the context of women being disdavantaged in pay, opportunities etc - obviously one didnt have to fight for equal pay for men if they were already priviledged and being paid more, could already open bank accounts in their own name etc

As a result of that some opportunities for men opened up that were not there before - eg male nurses, child care workers, male stay at home parents.

But how are transgendered people undermining that?

we want equality for everyone - for everyone of any gender to be paid same for same job, be able to apply for any job they are capable of etc

Transgendered people don't change or undermine that.
 
January said:
yes- it was i n the context of women being disdavantaged in pay, opportunities etc - obviously one didnt have to fight for equal pay for men if they were already priviledged and being paid more, could already open bank accounts in their own name etc

As a result of that some opportunities for men opened up that were not there before - eg male nurses, child care workers, male stay at home parents.

But how are transgendered people undermining that?

we want equality for everyone - for everyone of any gender to be paid same for same job, be able to apply for any job they are capable of etc

Transgendered people don't change or undermine that.
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I agree - in general, they don't. But when it comes to say, competitive sports, it's a different question.

You also can't brush aside societal norms. They may offend. In abstract thinking they perhaps shouldn't matter. But when your boss of 20 years comes in one day in a dress and complains about the pronouns used....... well, problems occur.

Trans people should be treated equally - but some things aren't equal. Sex assigned bathrooms are not equal. As a man, no woman would expect to find me in their assigned bathroom. A female sprinter would not expect me racing against them. Context is everything.
 

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