Let Things Lie

Lilac said:
I stood up for a couple of others on another thread earlier this month who were being attacked for their posts. Like a majority of threads, this one had evolved & expanded as it went along, as that's natural for many conversations. Only one individual took offense to what one said & wasn't at all pleasant in their response. A second poster asked a question to the upset individual & then they were added to the diatribe. Neither of the two members deserved it.

I'm willing to stand up to others who didn't do anything improper & do it respectfully. I also appreciate it when it's been done for me. Is it wrong or bad help someone else? It doesn't always mean it will keep it going.

No one should have the intent on being offensive on purpose to keep or to keep the pot stirred, but neither should anyone be in fear of not able to talk freely. We should all be able be to discuss different things whether you agree or not.

With that said, should we only allow bullies/offended people to decide on the content or the direction of a conversation?

At any time, any one of us may post something that is clear to us as we type it, but may not be clear to others as they read it. So, instead of asking what someone meant, another person will go off on the poster based on assumptions or gratuitous assumptions made by themselves (the reader). Several times I've had to re-read what someone wrote because it wasn't clear & I had to decipher their message. That just happens sometimes.

Also, if you desire your thread to go only in a certain direction, please set your guidelines in advance. Guidelines or not, do not get upset with others if it's not what you wish to hear.

I like to have discussions & learn what others think. I've learned from others who don't agree as well as others who do, but came about their decisions from another direction.

If we can't express our opinions or thoughts on various topics, then why do we even have this forum?

JUST MY THOUGHTS!
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This is one of the best posts I’ve read on the subject, ever. I see the things outlined in your post often. I try to ask questions, as do others, but sometimes even questions can be wrongly interpreted as an attack on an individual. Whereas for the most part what I'm seeing from members isn't actually an attack of the other person, they are just simply questioning the other persons words, or even asking them to clarify by asking them questions.

Sometimes then it seems that questions by some are seen as an attack by the other. When it’s just to try and further the discussion. Questions that in a way are trying to cause us all to stop and think, and to re-evaluate the discussion.

None of us are perfect, and none of us are able to formulate our words perfectly every time for all to understand. Yet it seems that we sometimes expect that at of others, and then go straight into defence mode, of a question, or in defence of an opinion. Then when facts are presented, some might see those facts as an attack.

Of cause we should own the words we type, but be should also be prepared to stop our own thoughts, and think just a little bit harder. Sometimes discarding our own words for new or better ones. We might find we have more opinions in common than we think.
 
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hollydolly said:
I can't be doing with it. I have people on ignore who constantly tried to start fights with me.. and others... ..I have absolutely no qualms about keeping toxic people out of my life...
I have one 'fan' of mine who follows me around the forum making sarcastic comments or 'likes' to my posts.. how pathetic is that ?.. how childish ? .. you'd think if I pissed them off so much they would want to put me on ignore.. but no, obviously they love me and don't want to miss a single word ... :D
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In what way might someone liking a post of yours, or liking anyone’s post for that matter, be considered pathetic and childish?
 
Jamala said:
Why does a toxic person call other people toxic when they are clearly the toxic ones?

Basically, the idea is to accuse others of the poor behaviour one possesses so as to cause those claiming they are toxic to focus on others instead of themselves. This works with those who can be easily lead but does not with self-aware humans.

The toxic person will point out others as toxic so their poor behaviour is no longer focused on.

They are not aware of their toxicity and don't have the self awareness of their toxic behaviour. When they encounter people whose behaviour is different from theirs, instead of looking into themselves, they often look outside and blame them.
In their mind, it is others' fault and they should change.
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In some ways your post made me think of some aspects of what I call the 5 D’s: Defend, Dismiss, Deflect, Delusion and Deny. Something I learned from being mentored.

But anyway, I find in life that toxic individuals tend to label others as toxic as a way to deflect attention from their own negative behaviour. I see only a very very small amount of those people here, but they have become very obvious to me. Then there is ‘projection’, where people attribute their own undesirable traits onto others in order to avoid self reflection and accountability, or so it seems.

Self aware individuals, I find, are less likely to fall into this pattern; they are more willing to introspect and take responsibility for their own actions. It’s quite bizarre at times, as many toxic individuals I come across seem to lack the awareness of their own toxicity due to various factors such as denial, defensiveness. Their tendency to blame others instead of engaging in self reflection reinforces their negative patterns of behaviour. I’m not even a sociologist; I just like to think I wonder this world with my eyes open, and open in a way that I see many people for what they are. It might have something to do with my childhood, and how when I was a child, how I used to observe people like a hawk?

Moving on, self awareness and personal accountability is the main thing, I think, in breaking this type of toxic behaviour.
 
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Magna-Carta said:
In some ways your post made me think of some aspects of what I call the 5 D’s: Defend, Dismiss, Deflect, Delusion and Deny. Something I learned from being mentored.

But anyway, I find in life that toxic individuals tend to label others as toxic as a way to deflect attention from their own negative behaviour. I see only a very very small amount of those people here, but they have become very obvious to me. Then there is ‘projection’, where people attribute their own undesirable traits onto others in order to avoid self reflection and accountability, or so it seems.

Self aware individuals, I find, are less likely to fall into this pattern; they are more willing to introspect and take responsibility for their own actions. It’s quite bizarre at times, as many toxic individuals I come across seem to lack the awareness of their own toxicity due to various factors such as denial, defensiveness. Their tendency to blame others instead of engaging in self reflection reinforces their negative patterns of behaviour. I’m not even a sociologist; I just like to think I wonder this world with my eyes open, and open in a way that I see many people for what they are. It might have something to do with my childhood, and how when I was a child, how I used to observe people like a hawk?

Moving on, self awareness and personal accountability is the main thing, I think, in breaking this type of toxic behaviour.
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Good post. Would like to add what the English philosopher Bertrand Russell once said, “The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves.”
He was talking about the Dunning-Kruger effect which maintains that some people tend to “ overestimate” their own knowledge and “underestimate” their own ignorance.
We do see a lot of it here!
 
Magna-Carta said:
You remember that one too? *sigh...* :)

Update: In one thread I was put on ignore for pointing those words out, and for trying to seek clarification of them.
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Ah yes, within one week of being on the forum and because I offered my educated opinion, I was told over the public address system that I have been put on “ignore.” Lol
 
I can't remember what brilliant thread I started, but after 5 pages of intense comments, two people were swapping Thanksgiving turkey stuffing recipes. And my carefully thought-out brilliant thread had nothing to do with stuffing. Unless you are willing to fight to the death for your favorite stuffing, you can't take this forum too seriously. When you want to type your fingers off replying to the no-good SOB, wait a day.
 
LOL! A variety of perspectives on this with some things being overlooked:
1) Frequency of visits to this forum, and others, may vary widely not just from one individual to another, but for any one individual depending on what else is going on in their/our lives.
2) Not everyone will attend to the day/time elapsed since post made that appears under our screen names. I made this mistake myself the first week i was here, before i realized how easily a very old thread could be re-activated. i pay more attention now. And if someone does social media mostly from their phone that info might be hard to see. Even on my Kindle it is fairly small and the print slightly lighter than copy in the body of reply.
3) Depending on the topic, one might not read every single comment thoroughly (or at all) before responding to the OP themselves and unless they reference another's reply we can't assume they don't simply hold the same opinion as one that we found problematic, and don't realize before posting that it has been expressed and was unpopular with some.
4) Over time we will develop notions about each other's personalities and characters, based on how they talk not just to us but to others as well as the opinions they express. We have to realize these may not be complete, accurate perceptions. Their perceptions of us may be limited or skewed as well--happens in 3-D life too.

We're all human (we may get trolls sometimes, but those who spread unrest via 'Bots' unlikely to send any to this kind of site); we're all subject to bad days when we might misunderstand others more easily, or speak more harshly; and most of us likely have at least one topic that we find it harder to respond to from reason more than emotion. I tend to use 'mental ignore' more than actual ignore button, in part because i can usually find some common ground with most people.
 
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I just have to say that this developed into a very unusual thread. I hope everyone feels better, or at least not worse, and that no permanent damage has been done.

I hope it's a sunny day where you are with blue skies, just a few white fluffy clouds and that all is well in your world. 🌹☀️🌹
 
feywon said:
LOL! A variety of perspectives on this with some things being overlooked:
1) Frequency of visits to this forum, and others, may vary widely not just from one individual to another, but for any one individual depending on what else is going on in their/our lives.
2) Not everyone will attend to the day/time elapsed since post made that appears under our screen names. I made this mistake myself the first week i was here, before i realized how easily a very old thread could be re-activated. i pay more attention now. And if someone does social media mostly from their phone that info might be hard to see. Even on my Kindle it is fairly small and the print slightly lighter than copy in the body of reply.
3) Depending on the topic, one might not read every single comment thoroughly (or at all) before responding to the OP themselves and unless they reference another's reply we can't assume they don't simply hold the same opinion as one that we found problematic, and don't realize before posting that it has been expressed and was unpopular with some.
4) Over time we will develop notions about each other's personalities and characters, based on how they talk not just to us but to others as well as the opinions they express. We have to realize these may not be complete, accurate perceptions. Their perceptions of us may be limited or skewed as well--happens in 3-D life too.

We're all human (we may get trolls sometimes, but those who spread unrest via 'Bots' unlikely to send any to this kind of site); we're all subject to bad days when we might misunderstand others more easily, or speak more harshly; and most of us likely have at least one topic that we find it harder too respond to from reason more than emotion. I tend to use 'mental ignore' more than actual ignore button, in part because i can usually find some common ground with most people.
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#3. EVERYTHING is unpopular to someone some time. People still have a right to express their own opinions without attempts at being gagged by those who don't agree.
 
oldaunt said:
#3. EVERYTHING is unpopular to someone some time. People still have a right to express their own opinions without attempts at being gagged by those who don't agree.
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That's my point with #3. Matrix's house, Matrix's rules. So nobody else gets to gag anyone, tho one can 'ignore'. When someone continues argue with me without either acknowledging my perspective &/or giving meaningful rebuttal to my view, i don't see them as trying to silence me. Rather, i conclude they aren't capable of reasoned debate, discussion on that topic and disengage.

I caught flak from someone here once for saying i won't waste my time/energy arguing with some folks, they didn't consider i was refraining from wasting the other party's time/energy as well. But considering some things you've said i think you'll understand that.
 
I think it is the anonymous factor. If someone disagrees with me or I disagree with them face to face...... I usually just walk away. In other words, you are not even worth talking to. However, here online, I always argue with someone with whom I don't agree with.
 
fuzzybuddy said:
I can't remember what brilliant thread I started, but after 5 pages of intense comments, two people were swapping Thanksgiving turkey stuffing recipes. And my carefully thought-out brilliant thread had nothing to do with stuffing. Unless you are willing to fight to the death for your favorite stuffing, you can't take this forum too seriously. When you want to type your fingers off replying to the no-good SOB, wait a day.
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I must admit, I do like a good stuffing. Regardless of whether it’s relevant to a thread or the OP or not. If I were to start a thread on automotive matters, then later were to see the thread wonder on to the finer points of Thanksgiving Turkey Stuffing Recipes, I would then finally know I’ve managed to achieved something!

Two passions of my life, to see a harmonious symphony of automotive expertise and culinary creativity coming together in one thread has got to be heart warming, for me at any rate. Whether a thread takes a turn towards stuffing, or ventures into uncharted territories of mashed potato debates and cylinder compression ratios, or even cranberry controversies and there link to the misunderstandings of pre-ignition vs. post-ignition detonation.

Then lets cherish the moment when we then see both opposing factions openly say, “I’m placing you on ignore, so there!” For it's in those unexpected tangents that the true magic of forum interactions are revealed, leaving you with a smile and a craving for a hearty Thanksgiving feast. Keep those threads rolling and let the stuffing discussions roam free! In which ever form we find them.

I’ve got to lighten this up, for my own sanity, and perhaps for the sanity of everyone reading this thread. But regardless, to be honest, I prefer chicken, with or without stuffing!
 
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