MTA Worker Mocks Teen's Suicide

Yes it's a bit insensitive but many consider suicide a very selfish & cowardly act. Anyone who worked on or took that route had their lives affected by a stranger. Sensitivity training coming up for the MTA. Should add in most jobs the way the employees talk about the public or their customers/reason for being is quite ignorant and far too common.
 
I know I've had customer service jobs where after the customers left we had our choice words for them. BUT we made sure the public address system was off before we said anything.
 

Hmmm. These canaille, should sit in my office for some teen group therapy sessions. For many of these teens, committing suicide would have been a sensible solution to escape intolerable lives, nothing selfish or cowardly about it. instead, one should be grateful to have never walked an inch in their shoes. There is a hell on earth, well populated by children, and ignored by
Pharisees of all descriptions.
 
I think the phrase 'committing suicide' sanitizes the situation for many people. They can be disconnected with the violence involved which makes it easy to look at the person 'committing suicide' as a coward, somebody who is afraid...when I think more accurately, it can take a huge amount of courage to go through with an act of such violence that the victim will more than likely die from it and often with a great deal of pain being involved. It becomes a choice for that victim, 'which pain is worse to endure'?

And sometimes the pain that a suicide victim experiences on a daily basis isn't visible to an outsider, is not tied to acts of bullying or violence directed their way or even visible illnesses. Sometimes that pain could best be described as ongoing, mental anguish that makes them feel like their very being is verging on implosion or explosion, or being crushed by the never ending weight of it or a mental darkness that blocks out any and all joy even when their lives look pretty good to the observer.

Suicide is rarely decided on a whim but is the result of hours, months, years of mental grief and sorrow that robs them of any reason to go on. The person who finally goes through with it has probably spent years, giving many moments each day, of consideration to how to accomplish it only to push it away time and again before they finally 'go for it' because they just can't continue that way anymore. It's like when you engage in strenuous exercise and you go for one more set, one more set and one more set again until there comes a point when you just can't raise your arms one more time......and then they just give up.

It can be caused by NEVER feeling like they are successful or worthy in any sense and each small failing becomes a huge and insurmountable failure that only points to their own status as a 'waste of space'. Depression that results in suicide is like anorexia that results in death and what the outside observer sees is never what the sufferer 'sees'. And jollying them along, or reassuring them that they have so much to live for, seldom touches them in a way that they can actually feel or appreciate. Feeling a little sad once in a while is entirely different than real depression.
 
I've always heard or read those that really want to commit suicide are the ones that complete it without physical hesitation. Yes they might think about but they don't meander or dwell come time to do it. The ones that really want out do it. In some cultures suicide is more acceptable although not preferred. Japan has frequently had one of the highest rates of suicide in the world. At one point they were averaging 30,000 suicides a year. In reality sometimes it is more practical but not logical. I get angst many young people can go through and without a long enough life to gain experience and wisdom to draw from yes it would be a viable option for them.

But many don't like quitters or those who wallow in self pity. I think it's a primal inherited thing but many can detect the mentally ill or sick, sometimes for prey and others for a detriment to the herd. I think that's why the reaction along with 'if I can through it so can you'.

You frequently hear stories of people jumping in front of trains and if one was involved in one prior I can see some resentment, it might come from ignorance but I see why. At this point I'm surprised that the train engineers in particular aren't warned about the possibility of a jumper. You don't want them preoccupied with that scenario but it should be disclosed in an orientation or class as a possibility along with what one actually should do if it does happen.
 
But sometimes it has nothing to do with long life, gaining experience, etc. Robin Williams was a prime example of someone who had experience with life, success and wealth and finally came to a point where he just couldn't bear his 'anguish' any more. And some people go through their entire lives struggling to not make that last violent decision, and they try to smile all the while for the sake of family and society and they count down the days to when they will be old enough for it all to be over hopefully.

And you know Whatinthe, what you just said is exactly why there are 'smiling depressives'. Those people don't want to be quitters either. And they frequently understand that people can't stand those who 'wallow in self pity' and so they continue to smile even when the blackness in their minds is encroaching more and more and blocking out all the light and joy of life. People think they can detect those who are 'troubled' but I believe more often, no one really understands the true extent of what is going on for that person. You see someone who maybe has no sense of humour, or is inclined to look at the dark side of things, doesn't laugh or smile much......but you just don't really know how deep the darkness is. That's why it was such a shock when Robin Williams killed himself.
 
My father in law spoke of killing himself throughout their married life. The family mambers joked about it; I heard them do it: "Pay no attention to him, he's just nuts" (spoken in German). My wife was 20 when he killed her mother first, then called us to warn us not to bring the kids, after which he took his own life. Killing anyone other than himself, he had never spoken of.

I've since heard suicide is rarely a spur of the moment event. imp
 
Robin Williams case is sad but he had an actual condition/disease along with a history/period of heavy drug use. I wasn't too surprised there. I was surprised he did it in his house leaving a reminder/not so pleasant memory for his family. I get the 'smiling depressive' but they might very be clinically depressed but when I see teen suicide because of bullying or failing at something that is lack of life experience or wisdom. One has to learn had to get through tough or tougher times emotionally as well as physically. Teens or children haven't even had the time to develop that skill yet simply because of age.
 
Who are we to decide which of us are quitters and wallowing in self pity and which of us are authentic, and why?We are not omniscient Gods, or telepaths filled with the capacity to make such judgements? In a civilised society, lack of

compassion/empathy toward others is considered to be a sociopathic trait, far more detrimental to a healthy species than depression. Due to circumstances which I have previously shared on this forum, I spent much of my life as a "smiling

depressive." Educated, successful, helping others. I "passed" as normal beautifully. Inside, I lived in a hell that would have made the Marquis de Sade pray for mercy. I fell more than once, skiing on my nose in the gravel, barely human, praying for death, atttempting it twice, saved by a miracle. I am not an anomaly, sadly there are many of us.
 
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I don't think 'judging' a suicidal or depressed person is necessarily 'judgemental'. Again I think detecting or noticing a depressed person is from an inherited primal instinct or ability to detect the sick for hunting or self defense purposes. Yes, current society might "judge" a depressed person but part of that reaction is from a primal instinct or reaction they don't have to deal with that often. The response is one of caution; stay way-nature's way of saying this person might be a danger to you or the herd so to speak.

You see that scenario play out in nature on the Discovery or Learning channels. The predator always seem to be able to find the weakest link or most catchable prey in herd. You see the herd, group or pack frequently reject a sick member-not saying it's right but it's a programmed instinct for survival reasons.
 
We are sentient beings. With education, we have the capacity to learn about, and empathise with those in pain. Some of the famous people in history have suffered from depression. Galileo, Winston Churchill. Creatives such as Leonard Cohen, Sylvia

Plath, Emily Dickinson. They have, and in some cases still continue to contribute to the herd. I much prefer their contribution than psychopaths such as Stalin, Pol Pot, et al.
 
Right on all points Shalimar (and I'm glad for the sake of your generous spirit here) that you didn't 'manage it'. We would have missed your spirit even if we never knew you.

As for Robin Williams, yes, he had issues and one of them was depression. How many clinically depressed people do you think are walking around, rubbing shoulders with everyone, that would also qualify as depressed? Like Mr. Williams, they're suffering and unlike him, they haven't yet acted on how they're feeling. They haven't quite worked up the courage.

My daily mantra is '24 years, 2 and a half months'. Every day. That will take me up to 85 years old and I say it quietly to myself because I hope that there is truth in the possibility of visualization. Next month, the mantra will change to '24 years, 1 and a half months' and so on. The last thought in my mind each night is 'I wish I could die'. I was like this as a child and have vivid memories of sitting on my bed with my mothers arms around me and crying for hours that 'nobody loved me', I self medicated my way through my teens and twenty's and then I went on anti depressants until I realized they weren't making me feel any better and quit using them. I've stood staring at the rafters in the barn, I look at trees as I drive past them on the way to the grocery store and on really bad days, I wish I was brave enough. Last night I remembered that we have a nail gun and I wondered....

When I was in the church, I believed that a. God would help me and b. it was a sin so I couldn't act on my feelings. At this point I believe that we are all here for a 'reason' and if I short circuit that plan, I'll just wind up having to deal with whatever I'm supposed to learn or experience and I will have to repeat this whole experience one more time and I simply couldn't bear that. So I don't act on the impulses and instead spend my days and sleepless nights drowning in 'grief' that has no foundation but is there none the less. Those who have never experienced this situation have no idea how harsh it can be and how useless the platitudes are. Indeed the 'platitudes' and admonitions do nothing except make us feel guiltier and more hopeless than we already feel. So we smile and usually say nothing to our families because we don't want to 'harsh their buzz' and if we decide to finally end our own pain, the world around us is all amazed and exclaims how 'they never knew'.

So please 'world', quit thinking of suicides as quitters and cowards. They/we are hurting and we're stuck in a world where too often, the black dog of depression stalks us and grinds away the joy that should be part of our lives. To just chalk it up to a lack of life experience or blaming it on bullying is often only a tiny part of one persons entire picture.

For that metro worker to say such a horrible thing....like someone else here said, 'it leaves me speechless' but my guess is that whatever small amount of pain that teenager might have felt was far less than what he was dealing with before he stepped off that platform.
 
Debby, your observations speak of personal experience.

Both my brother and uncle committed suicide - my brother for medical reasons, my uncle for depression. I was too young to truly understand my uncle's actions, but my brother? I was his caregiver for many months and watched him regress to a child - not good for a 40-something-old man.

The Japanese suicide rate is interesting because I believe it stems from a basically different life philosophy and set of expectations. Adults, mainly men in the corporate world, commit suicide when they feel they have failed the corporation. Teens commit this heinous act because of excessive pressure to succeed in school.

The engineer's / conductor's comment was of course over the top, but having lived in NYC for many years I can tell you that such insensitive, inappropriate remarks are common - not just from MTA workers but seemingly almost everyone. Reminds me of the story of the guy who got mad that traffic was snarled on 9/11 ...
 
I'm sure sorry you had to watch your brother's life wind down like that Phil. It must have been hard for you, for your family, just as life was hard for both your brother and for your uncle. Personally, I think this is some kind of chemical imbalance within the body and brain that short circuits our perceptions and which brings those who act on their pain to the end of their ability to endure it. Maybe that's why some people are helped by antidepressants but some aren't. Too many subtleties in the physiology of the human body for antidepressants to be 'one size fits all'.
 
The odd thing with my brother - all three of us boys, in fact - is that we all took a pact that when the pain became too much - physical or mental - we would take the difficult but courageous way out. If we weren't physically able, the others would help.

Being the baby, guess who got to help? But both of my brothers kept our pact - I suppose in some odd way that's a comfort and a matter of pride to me. Will I continue the tradition, when and if the time comes?

I certainly hope so.
 
Debby, I applaud your courage. The strength of your spirit is inspiring. Meds helped me get through the worst of PTSD, sure never cured anything. Nothing short of erasing all those memories would do that. No one size fits all. When it comes to mental

health, for the most part we are still stumbling around in the dark, medicating because sometimes it is necessary, or even helpful, and because often, we don't know what else to do. Ultimately, animals, and counseling others did more for my PTSD than

drugs ever did. Things is, if you have never had depression, PTSD, Suicidality, you don't really understand them--like describing childbirth to the uninitiated. Sometimes, we just do the best we can, Like Debby, who is one strong woman!
 
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