******* mutilation of two-week-old baby

Verisure said:
I.
PAIN: highly unpleasant physical sensation caused by illness or injury.
SUFFER: experience or be subjected to (something bad or unpleasant).
MUTILATION: the infliction of serious and permanent damage on something.

II.
TOSS: throw (something) somewhere lightly or casually.
CIGARETTE: a thin cylinder of finely cut tobacco rolled in paper for smoking
LITTER: rubbish such as paper, cans, and bottles left lying in an open or public place

Numbers I and II are not in the same ballpark.
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My assumption is you are anti circumcision so you believe it is painful. What if I told you it is not painful? Piercing your ears is painful, but many people have pierced ears for jewelry. Maybe I will just say it this way. It's a personal choice. So, mind your own business.
 

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Not having had any experience with raising boys, I think I would leave it to my husband to decide. My son-in-law has been ‘done’ (sounds horrible) and he chose to have his son circumcised at birth because he "didn’t want him to be different from other boys in the change rooms." I guess that tells you how popular it is/was in Australia at that time. His son is now 25.
 
ManjaroKDE said:
For all the anti's, I think that what I went through at age 58 from a age-related condition versus a failure in hygiene care. will remember the pain and agony of the 2-3 week recovery from circumcision more vividly than a week old male will remember. My urologist informed me that he sees it as his best money maker. I only wish my parents had the $15 that it cost in the 40's.
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My father-in-law had a similar experience. It was extremely painful and also embarassing for him well into his later years. I suspect it is more common than most of us know.
 

Verisure said:
Circumcision ought to be illegal for both boys and girls. Last year one guy was charged for performing circumcisions on 9 boys with a sodering pistol! I cannot even imagine how much pain that must have been:
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It is not possible to perform circumcision with a sodering pistol. What he did was child abusement. Newborn circumcision done by doctors. Your reason for banning circumcision is totally illogical. When I was born, circumcision was routinely done. I am very glad I was not one who was not circumcised when I went through my formative years in school.
 
My dear husband had to be circumcised when he was 20 years of age due to ongoing infections. Very embarrassing for him so he said our 2 boys should be done to spare them any problems in the future. They were done at 2 days old and never had any problems since. Another friend had to be circumcised at age 50 due to Diabetic problems.
 
In Germany the non Jewish and non Muslim boys never were circumcised at all. All these men are constantly crying because of pain and UTIs. Of course not. I'm 65 years old, not circumcised and never had any UTI. In hot climate zones together with poor hygienic circumstances, male circumcision can make sense. But not in other parts of the world and not "because it was always done".
 
Verisure said:
Circumcision ought to be illegal for both boys and girls. Last year one guy was charged for performing circumcisions on 9 boys with a sodering pistol! I cannot even imagine how much pain that must have been:
B401188_1.jpg
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You've stirred up a hornet's nest with the topic of male circumcision :ROFLMAO:. But in fact there are pros and cons. Why not discuss it?
 
mellowyellow said:
Not having had any experience with raising boys, I think I would leave it to my husband to decide. My son-in-law has been ‘done’ (sounds horrible) and he chose to have his son circumcised at birth because he "didn’t want him to be different from other boys in the change rooms." I guess that tells you how popular it is/was in Australia at that time. His son is now 25.
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it tells you how popular your son in law thought it was - but he was wrong about that.

25 years ago circumcision rates in Australia had already dropped under 50% and they are now down to around 15%

( information easily obtained on multiple googled sites)
 
My 3 boys were born between 1973-1980 and it was routine. If I had known that occasionally they go wrong and the baby is damaged for life I wouldn’t have done it. My second husband was not circumcised and never had a problem with it.
 
Verisure said:
In what way?
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The girls *******s are sewn shut except for a tiny hole for urine to come out. I listened to a young woman on a video, talking about what was done to her and it's horrendous as is the pain and disastrous effect on her as she grew and then became an adult. Pain, infections, difficulties in hygiene during her period. I can't imagine how anyone could do this to their girls. It's like they don't remember how they suffered.
 
Deborah, it's like foot binding or neck rings or any other culturally accepted body mutilation - it is really hard to break cultural ties - so mothers continue accepting this for their daughters even after suffering with it themselves.
And both the mothers and the daughters would be stigmatised or worse if they didn't do it.
No win situation for individuals - cultural change has to come from wider than 1 individual.
 
If that bit of skin on a male is such a problem, I'm quite amazed that they evolved with it there. Evolution is usually pretty selective as to the development or destruction of parts that are dangerous or not dangerous to the health of the species. If that 'part' is the cause of illness or sickness, the individuals carrying that 'part' generally die off, leaving the rest to breed and carry on the better design. So if it's such a problem, how did men continue to exist?
 
Warrigal said:
This sounds very weird to me. As far as I know, circumcision of boys is not an Islamic custom. Jewish, yes but Islam no?
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Islam does not require circumcison (although the religion recommends it) but according to an Imam's words that I read, Allah rewards the man/boy who is circumcised but neither rewards nor punishes the person who is not.
 
All the boys in our family are circumcised. We don't need to justify why we do it, so consider the fact that we have boys circumcised out of family tradition. When I was born sometime after WW2, the US economy was booming. Families bought homes and had medical insurance that covers newborn circumcision. At that time, the procedure was highly recommended by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) because it was thought circumcision have medical and hygienic benefits, and Dr. Benjamin Spock's book on July 14th, 1946, at the dawn of the post-World War II baby boom published The Common Sense Book of Baby and Child Care recommended all newborn boys should be circumcised. It would become a foundational work on the topic of parenting, transforming how generations of children were raised.

I, like all the newborn boys were routinely circumcised without any objections from our parents.

Nearly 100% of what is now consider the baby boomer generation are circumcised. Because I was circumcised, I had my son circumcised, and he had my grandsons circumcised. We feel comfortable with its appearance and that it was easy to maintain cleanliness. We do not need outsiders to tell us circumcision is multilation. They don't need to know unless we tell them our *****. In general over 90% of white Americans are circumcised.
 
Verisure said:
I am aware of that. My question is whether or not you feel there is a moral difference between the two. That is to say if you feel one is OK and the other not.
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Removing the female parts stops a woman from enjoying sex. Male circumcision is done for health reasons. Living in desert regions makes it difficult to keep clean. It became the tradition in America but there is no justification for it.
 
It's a long article, but there's a wealth of information. Whatever you believe, understanding the actual purpose and advantages of penile foreskin as well as the purported medical justifications for needless male circumcision makes it worthwhile reading. Female circumcision is also addressed. I don't expect the facts to alter anyone's opinion, regardless of what they think. This is posted for educational purposes.

The foreskin: Why is it such a secret in North America?

The Foreskin: Why Is It Such A Secret In North America?
 
January said:
Deborah, it's like foot binding or neck rings or any other culturally accepted body mutilation - it is really hard to break cultural ties - so mothers continue accepting this for their daughters even after suffering with it themselves.
And both the mothers and the daughters would be stigmatised or worse if they didn't do it.
No win situation for individuals - cultural change has to come from wider than 1 individual.
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Yes, like the culturally accepted practice of American women to have their chests cut open and balls of silicone or saline inserted. All for the same reason as the foot binding and neck rings. To make themselves more desirable to men.
 
peramangkelder said:
Sadly the 2 women probably already have had this abomination done to them 😥
Female ******* Mutilation is banned in all states and territories in Australia
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From what I heard from a woman who unwillingly had this horrific "surgery" done to her as a young girl was that the reason this was done to young girls was to prevent them having an orgasm. She spoke of hearing girls scream out in agony in a closed off room when cutting off their clitoris was done to them. EVIL!
 
Della said:
Yes, like the culturally accepted practice of American women to have their chests cut open and balls of silicone or saline inserted. All for the same reason as the foot binding and neck rings. To make themselves more desirable to men.
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No not really.

That is a procedure that adult women are choosing for themselves and is not a procedure routinely done to girls from childhood. Not even routinely done by grown women, only a minority of them do so.
 
Elsie said:
From what I heard from a woman who unwillingly had this horrific "surgery" done to her as a young girl was that the reason this was done to young girls was to prevent them having an orgasm. She spoke of hearing girls scream out in agony in a closed off room when cutting off their clitoris was done to them. EVIL!
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I think it is a horrific practice but I think evil is wrong word.

People living within a culture are caught up with the practices seen as normal to them and people would be disadvantaged and stigmatised if they did not do as expected - cultural change has to come from wider than the individual.

Very hard to break that - you get 'it was done to me so i did it to my children' defensiveness and 'we don't need outsiders to tell us it is mutilation.'
 
January said:
I think it is a horrific practice but I think evil is wrong word.

People living within a culture are caught up with the practices seen as normal to them and people would be disadvantaged and stigmatised if they did not do as expected - cultural change has to come from wider than the individual.

Very hard to break that - you get 'it was done to me so i did it to my children' defensiveness and 'we don't need outsiders to tell us it is mutilation.'
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Holy cow! Then the perpetrators reason for doing it is maybe cultural plastic surgery, and should not be condemned?
 

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