News from the Smithsonian Institution -- Are You Suffering from Whiteness?

J

JimBob1952

Senior Member
In case you thought you might be suffering from "Whiteness," the Smithsonian through the National Museum of African American History and Culture (NMAAHC) has helpfully published some identifying symptoms. These include objectivity, linear thinking, showing up on time, and working hard.

I thought this was a joke but it's not.

https://nmaahc.si.edu/learn/talking-about-race/topics/whiteness

Your tax dollars at work, folks.
 

Actually, I looked for a definition of "racism" and found this:

....the belief that different races possess distinct characteristics, abilities, or qualities, especially so as to distinguish them as inferior or superior to one another.

So I guess we would have to agree that the stuff posted on the link is racist, whether or not it is accurate.
 
Okay, maybe not 100% accurate. Generally accurate. And no, placing the shoe on the other foot is racist. Being white IS a privilege whether you want to admit it or not. Being born white is winning a lottery at birth. Whites have forever used "attributes" of black people as an excuse to keep a foot on their necks for long enough. It's time we face it, once and for all.
 
Sorry, using racism and dopey race-based generalities to fight racism seems counter-productive to me. I thought the website (and especially the infographic) was outrageous and I'm sorry you don't see it that way.

An anti-racist used to say black people are just as capable as white people (which I believe to be true). Now you are supposed to say that black people are different and you can't expect them to work hard (white attribute) show up on time (white attribute) or think objectively (white attribute).

This is progress?
 
JimBob1952 said:
Sorry, using racism and dopey race-based generalities to fight racism seems counter-productive to me. I thought the website (and especially the infographic) was outrageous and I'm sorry you don't see it that way.

An anti-racist used to say black people are just as capable as white people (which I believe to be true). Now you are supposed to say that black people are different and you can't expect them to work hard (white attribute) show up on time (white attribute) or think objectively (white attribute).

This is progress?
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First off, we all don't see things the same way, or think the same way so don't be sorry I don't see it your way. I still love you.

Secondly, I never said or implied the second phrase I bolded. Here's what I meant: The majority of black Americans (who have been here longer than many many whites, btw) were not afforded the ability, due to past and severe racism, to accumulate wealth. Most were barred from this until very recent history. That has negatively affected the lives of the majority of black people today.

Closing of the school due to the pandemic will add to their suffering for years to come, you bet! That is not an opinion on whether or not the school should re-open. Through my DIL I am already aware of white families pooling their resources to hire private teachers to teach in a private setting. That's an advantage, right? One that many black parents, many without WiFi, can't meet, or need assistance to meet but that won't happen.
 
ETA---
If you are born beautiful, statistics definitely show you will have more opportunities in life than an average person and certainly more than an unattractive person. That's the way it is. The beautiful won a lottery at birth and so did white people. It's about starting life with advantages. That's all it means. Nothing to do with abilities, just the luck of the draw.

That's why so many whites can't comprehend the sufferings of dealing with the police, etc. It's not in our experience to know, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
 
Thanks as always Pepper. I am not attributing the second phrase to you, but to the Smithsonian site, just so you know.

I actually do think we agree on this. I certainly agree that years of racism and the denial of opportunities to create wealth have made it difficult for black people to get ahead in this world. There are things that could and should be done about that. Fixing school funding and resources would be a good start. I'm also for police reform, criminal justice reform and a massive Marshall-plan type program to rebuild and transform urban America.

However, I think that academic constructs such as "whiteness" and "white fragility" are absurd and counter-productive. And I also think that family, work ethic, and other "white" values might be helpful in fixing the problem.

I don't know many black people. But I know many Asian people and I am always impressed by their commitment to family, education and plain old hard work. South Korea went from being one of the poorest countries in the world to one of the richest countries in the world in less than 60 years.
 
Pepper said:
ETA---
If you are born beautiful, statistics definitely show you will have more opportunities in life than an average person and certainly more than an unattractive person. That's the way it is. The beautiful won a lottery at birth and so did white people. It's about starting life with advantages. That's all it means. Nothing to do with abilities, just the luck of the draw.

That's why so many whites can't comprehend the sufferings of dealing with the police, etc. It's not in our experience to know, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
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Hmmm....the "born beautiful" thing may explain my lack of success. I always thought it was because I was lazy.
 
When you hear the word "racist" you think of white supremacists- the skinheads with the Confederate flag tattoos. Not us church going white folk. Yet, I believe that most whites don't have an appreciation of blacks as competent, able people. It's not hatred, but a misty feeling. It's the sense that a black doctor may not be the best you could have. It's the sense that two black males are up to no good. It's the sense of fearing 4 black men, while not fearing 4 white men. No, I'm not going to burn a cross on their lawn. But, I do have those "senses" about blacks.
 
Pepper said:
First off, we all don't see things the same way, or think the same way so don't be sorry I don't see it your way. I still love you.

Secondly, I never said or implied the second phrase I bolded. Here's what I meant: The majority of black Americans (who have been here longer than many many whites, btw) were not afforded the ability, due to past and severe racism, to accumulate wealth. Most were barred from this until very recent history. That has negatively affected the lives of the majority of black people today.

Closing of the school due to the pandemic will add to their suffering for years to come, you bet! That is not an opinion on whether or not the school should re-open. Through my DIL I am already aware of white families pooling their resources to hire private teachers to teach in a private setting. That's an advantage, right? One that many black parents, many without WiFi, can't meet, or need assistance to meet but that won't happen.
Click to expand...
I understand your points, but here are a few I feel are important to remember regarding white and other races race. The depression and the dust bowl era. Farmers, share croppers and even small business's lost everything. Everything. They had to start over but many had to move west and pick fruit, vegetables, live in shacks, tents, cars. Children had to work to, no schooling just work to survive. How much money do you think they were able to save to better themselves? On a migrants salary? Its not just black people who have lived through suffering and racism, being labeled a dirty Okee, or them dumb hillbillies. Being told to move on because they were not wanted in their town. Being looked down on due to there raggy clothes, their speech, lack of education. The American Japanese were gathered up and placed in camps, families separated, homes and business's lost. I know its not the same but many others have lived through struggles too. 🌹
 
I read most of the article but didn't check out any of the videos yet. I think it did a great job pointing out a lot of the advantages that people in a majority in a country (specifically whites in America in the article) have that they take for granted or don't recognize. The article did a better job articulating points I was trying to make in another thread a while back.

I don't think the article was trying to say there aren't any other inequities in our American society or that being white means one doesn't experience inequities. It was just pointing out the inequities that people of color can and often do experience here.
 
Let's think about this for a minute. A Smithsonian website includes this infographic, which is full of absurd stereotypes, ridiculous generalizations and blindingly obvious observations:



Talking About Race: Whiteness and White Culture



Am I the only person on SF who finds this to be outrageous and so, so wrong?
 
It was an interesting read but I'm not sure that it is helpful.

I would like to see a similar article that discusses people suffering from Blackness or fill in the blank.

I don't have much luck discussing my views about race in America because when I try to express my thoughts honestly I'm usually attacked or shouted down and it simply isn't worth the effort.

I hope that someday we reach the point where we can work on improving the quality of life for all Americans without slicing and dicing every issue along racial lines.

“The rising tide lifts all the boats.” - John F. Kennedy
 
Becky1951 said:
I know its not the same but many others have lived through struggles too. 🌹
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My family began to arrive here starting before 1905. My maternal grandma came from wealthy landowners in Russia. She was highly educated, by tutors. The servants, who were Russian Orthodox, tipped her off a pogrom was coming. She left, by herself, to come to America and rescue her family. My paternal side came from a shtetl in Austria, leaving for basically the same reasons. They had nothing but the clothes on their backs. They suffered during the depression.

Yes, they did all right, some of their great grandchildren are doing REALLY well. However, in my travels I've met some Americans living in very nice houses with lots of acreage. Seems this was in their families for generation after generation. "Damn," I think, "why did My people come so late and have nothing?" Yes, we built ourselves up but still behind the 8 ball when it comes to inheritance.

Black people were Slaves. They were Owned. They were promised 40 acres and a mule. They didn't get that. The Oakies weren't lynched for stepping out of line. The Oakies could vote. So could my people.
 
JimBob1952 said:
Let's think about this for a minute. A Smithsonian website includes this infographic, which is full of absurd stereotypes, ridiculous generalizations and blindingly obvious observations:



Talking About Race: Whiteness and White Culture



Am I the only person on SF who finds this to be outrageous and so, so wrong?
Click to expand...
Nope, you're not wrong.

Problem #1: When individuals get their news/info from a 'favorite' source, it can be too easy to believe that it's true and accurate. They may not even realize there's any bias.

One of the dopiest examples I happened to see recently, although I can't recall the site it was on: it said white supremacists want and encourage interracial marriages because they want Black and other minority races to be 'diluted.' I almost choked.

Problem #2: The infographic not only promotes more divisions, but along the line of 'That's what "THEY" ('all white people') are like.'

Frankly, I've seen and personally experienced more differences between some predominately-white ethnic groups than between whites in general and Blacks.
 
JaniceM said:
Nope, you're not wrong.

Problem #1: When individuals get their news/info from a 'favorite' source, it can be too easy to believe that it's true and accurate. They may not even realize there's any bias.

One of the dopiest examples I happened to see recently, although I can't recall the site it was on: it said white supremacists want and encourage interracial marriages because they want Black and other minority races to be 'diluted.' I almost choked.

Problem #2: The infographic not only promotes more divisions, but along the line of 'That's what "THEY" ('all white people') are like.'

Frankly, I've seen and personally experienced more differences between some predominately-white ethnic groups than between whites in general and Blacks.
Click to expand...


Gross generalizations about a race = racism.
 
I don't think a simple yes or no applies here. Some of the points in the bulleted items are pretty accurate for white people and probably no one else. Some of them are so general that they are meaningless. (Most people are able to choose to spend most of their time with their own race, that isn't only limited to white people. Not saying they should, just that everybody has that choice. These days, people of all races are represented in every way conceivable on TV. And so on.)

And that's the trouble with big, sweeping generalizations like this. It is based on partial truths, but carries them way over the line. That chart sounds ridiculously dated to me. It depicts an America that was presented to us as children in school. I really doubt that anyone is describing America any more in those terms (thank goodness), unless the far-right extremes of Christian conservatism are considered the norm. The ideas shown in that chart made me think of the reading textbooks I grew up with, "Dick and Jane," etc. The America shown to kids in those books pretty much matched the narrow, mean-spirited description in that chart. But that was the prevailing stereotype of what it meant to be an American back in the mid-20th century! Come on, guys, even us ignorant, egotistical white people have advanced, at least somewhat, since then!

I like the NMAAHC, have visited, and was very impressed by it. But I think this exhibit needs to polish up its accuracy, if it's supposed to be representing the America of today and not 75 years ago.
 
"Black people were Slaves. They were Owned. They were promised 40 acres and a mule. They didn't get that. The Oakies weren't lynched for stepping out of line. The Oakies could vote. So could my people."

True and I said I know its not the same.
 
Pepper said:
My family began to arrive here starting before 1905. My maternal grandma came from wealthy landowners in Russia. She was highly educated, by tutors. The servants, who were Russian Orthodox, tipped her off a pogrom was coming. She left, by herself, to come to America and rescue her family. My paternal side came from a shtetl in Austria, leaving for basically the same reasons. They had nothing but the clothes on their backs. They suffered during the depression.

Yes, they did all right, some of their great grandchildren are doing REALLY well. However, in my travels I've met some Americans living in very nice houses with lots of acreage. Seems this was in their families for generation after generation. "Damn," I think, "why did My people come so late and have nothing?" Yes, we built ourselves up but still behind the 8 ball when it comes to inheritance.

Black people were Slaves. They were Owned. They were promised 40 acres and a mule. They didn't get that. The Oakies weren't lynched for stepping out of line. The Oakies could vote. So could my people.
Click to expand...
Sunny said:
I don't think a simple yes or no applies here. Some of the points in the bulleted items are pretty accurate for white people and probably no one else. Some of them are so general that they are meaningless. (Most people are able to choose to spend most of their time with their own race, that isn't only limited to white people. Not saying they should, just that everybody has that choice. These days, people of all races are represented in every way conceivable on TV. And so on.)

And that's the trouble with big, sweeping generalizations like this. It is based on partial truths, but carries them way over the line. That chart sounds ridiculously dated to me. It depicts an America that was presented to us as children in school. I really doubt that anyone is describing America any more in those terms (thank goodness), unless the far-right extremes of Christian conservatism are considered the norm. The ideas shown in that chart made me think of the reading textbooks I grew up with, "Dick and Jane," etc. The America shown to kids in those books pretty much matched the narrow, mean-spirited description in that chart. But that was the prevailing stereotype of what it meant to be an American back in the mid-20th century! Come on, guys, even us ignorant, egotistical white people have advanced, at least somewhat, since then!

I like the NMAAHC, have visited, and was very impressed by it. But I think this exhibit needs to polish up its accuracy, if it's supposed to be representing the America of today and not 75 years ago.
Click to expand...

My favorite part is the favorite white family unit being mom, dad and 2.3 children.

I always hated living with that one-third of a child. After a while the house began to smell funky.
 

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