NY Times Op Ed Writer disturbed by sight of American flags

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JonDouglas said:
Perhaps you could explain "pseudo patriotism" and tell us how you spot and diagnose it as such.
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Yes, i'd like to know that myself. He said something similar about my "back the blue" stickers supporting law enforcement.
 

JimBob1952 said:
I didn't post the original article to start a discussion about the flag. I'm just worried that a lot of people are going sort of crazy, especially on the subject of race.

I recently saw a comment to this effect: "Black studies celebrates blackness, Chicano studies celebrates Chicanos, women's studies celebrates women, and white studies attacks white people as evil."

Maybe it's payback, I don't know.
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Given that the flag seems to often be the target of those who don't respect things like ideals, values and rule of law, discussion thereabouts might be instructive as to your intent.
 
So, this disturbing display of American flags occurred about a month before the 4th of July on Long Island, where hundreds of boats of all kinds rescued 500,000 people trapped on the south shore after the collapse of the twin towers on 9-11-01.

Yeah, that's disgusting.
 
Murrmurr said:
So, this disturbing display of American flags occurred about a month before the 4th of July on Long Island, where hundreds of boats of all kinds rescued 500,000 people trapped on the south shore after the collapse of the twin towers on 9-11-01.

Yeah, that's disgusting.
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On the shores of Sitka, Alaska, fourth of July, the whole town went out to watch fireworks over the ocean. One man on shore, a deep baritone, started singing, "God bless America" and the entire town joined in. A passing cruise ship was off-shore. The whole ship returned the song. You could hear our singing and their singing. Tears in the eyes, guys! That's loving America! This is what it means to be alive!

Or, Is this disgusting?
 
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JimBob1952 said:
If the "far right" has made your stomach churn when you see an American flag, I suggest Maalox. Moving to the Upper West Side of Manhattan or to any good-sized college town might help as well.
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You seen to have missed the part where I said "flying from the back of a rusted out pickup truck or next to a Doanld Trump sign." I don't feel that way when it is displayed on government buildings etc.
 
fuzzybuddy said:
Wrapping yourself in pseudo patriotism is a tried and true political tactic. Both sides do it routinely. Every politician has a flag somewhere in their ads. You have to sever the hopes of what the American flag can stand for, from the sinister uses some wrap themselves up in it. It is not that piece of cloth, which has meaning; it's the ideals and hopes represented by it. Maybe, instead of red, white and blue, we think of "All men are created equal", and try to live by it.
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By their acts you shall know them.
 
Murrmurr said:
So, this disturbing display of American flags occurred about a month before the 4th of July on Long Island, where hundreds of boats of all kinds rescued 500,000 people trapped on the south shore after the collapse of the twin towers on 9-11-01.

Yeah, that's disgusting.
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And your point is? The problem is not with the flag it is how people choose what it represents and the far right has seemed to have adopted it as justicfication for their beliefs and actions. It will be difficult to divorce that adoption and return the flag to its place as representing what America stands for. Just like the swastika and many other symbols, once used and accepted as representative of a particular group that stain will always remain. My comment was not about the flag but how I feel when I see it being flown by people who now seem in agreement with and supportive of the far right.
 
Gaer said:
Oh! Thank you for posting that! I remember watching this as it happened on the news.
AMERICANS, coming together, helping each other. And the flag is the SYMBOL of America!
It has MEANING and SIGNIFICANCE!
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It's not about the flag in and of itself it is about who is using it to represent what agenda. Like many symbols such as the swatika which used to represent spiritual ideals once stained it can't be unstained.
 
I love this country, and still get a thrill of pride when I see its flag. However, I don't like seeing this beloved flag hijacked by a political movement. The flag belongs to all of us, and should not be a symbol of the far right, or the far left either, for that matter.
 
fuzzybuddy said:
I agree that saying , "Yeah, I'm white" is supposedly a bad thing. But, when every authoritarian figure in the nation is a white male, it's hard to bitch about.
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  • The year 2017 marked the 50th anniversary of the election of the first black mayor of a big U.S city. In 1967, Carl Stokes was elected mayor of Cleveland and Richard Hatcher was elected mayor of Gary, IN. The following year Kenneth Gibson was elected mayor of Newark in 1970. Of the 100 largest cities in the country, 39 have had elected black mayors. In 2018, 57.1% of black mayors served in cities (over 40,000) that did not have a black majority population.
 
Martha Ferris said:
And your point is? The problem is not with the flag it is how people choose what it represents and the far right has seemed to have adopted it as justicfication for their beliefs and actions. It will be difficult to divorce that adoption and return the flag to its place as representing what America stands for. Just like the swastika and many other symbols, once used and accepted as representative of a particular group that stain will always remain. My comment was not about the flag but how I feel when I see it being flown by people who now seem in agreement with and supportive of the far right.
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Pretty sure he's being sarcastic.
 
JimBob1952 said:
I didn't post the original article to start a discussion about the flag. I'm just worried that a lot of people are going sort of crazy, especially on the subject of race.

I recently saw a comment to this effect: "Black studies celebrates blackness, Chicano studies celebrates Chicanos, women's studies celebrates women, and white studies attacks white people as evil."

Maybe it's payback, I don't know.
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History has primarily been told from a white male perpsective. By having studies that focus on other perspectives and experiences we acknowledge that the white male perspective often did not recognize any other but its own.

We are tribal by design. It stems from our primitive brain and served to support and protect members of the tribe. That is why we belong to groups today. We are drawn to our tribes even when we don't know where that desire comes from. It is also part of that system to view those not like us in some way as a ptotential threat.
Our brain has not changed since we became homo sapiens despite all of our progress in other areas. We are still thinking and reactiving with that first brain and that applies to every human being regardless of any label assigned to them.

Our brains need to evolve but evolution is a slow process. By not accepting the status quo, by acknowledging and learning about others who differ from the accepted norm ie white male, we help that process along. We stop being so afraid of those who fall outside of the "norm". We have made progress but we still have far to go.

Do some people take it too far? Yes, because they also have that primitive brain that they are working from. We are all tribal. We all look for our groups where we feel safe and supported and that is reflected in our beliefs and our decisions.

There is also evidence in differences in brain structures between liberal and conservative individuals that lead us to certain behavioral traits.Conservative and Liberal Brains Might Have Some Real Differences - Scientific American
JonDouglas said:
May I kindly suggest you lose the politics. This forum isn't the place for it.
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I posted what I posted because of the original post. There are reasons for eveything we do and I was giving my reason for how I feel when I see the American flag being flown by those who seem to approve of and support the far right. That reaction may seem "crazy" to some. Perhaps I am not alone in that feeling and that could be an explanation as to why the statement in the original post was made and to give some understanding rather than labeling reactions to the flag that one does not understand as "crazy." Rather than judging and labeling trying to glean an understanding of where someone is coming from and why they said or did something, I think, is a better approach.
 
Martha Ferris said:
It's not about the flag in and of itself it is about who is using it to represent what agenda. Like many symbols such as the swatika which used to represent spiritual ideals once stained it can't be unstained.
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Martha Ferris said:
Please visit this site: A Lesson on Critical Race Theory (americanbar.org)
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Thank you for the link.

I went to the site and read "A Lesson on Critical Race Theory." Frankly, I think it's total and utter BS. It completely ignores the role of human agency. It's racist in and of itself in that it portrays black people as helpless victims unable to escape the clutches of society.

Just because this stuff is taught in our schools doesn't make it true or valid. The same thing is true of "whiteness studies" and so many other manifestations of woke, identity-based concepts that are poisoning our lives.
 
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