Obama is going to destroy ivory next, some are valuable antiques !

I think if the Great Masters's paintings were painted on canvas made from human skin, many would argue for their destruction. It depends on one's priorities, for some the origin trumps the result, no matter how beautiful.
 

charlotta said:
I dont beliieve this is accurate. The newspaper that published this is in China. Fox would have been on this and broadcasting it to the world. Please check the facts
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If you're talking about Obama burning all the ivory artifacts then, yes, it's true. There are many many accounts of this. If you google "Obama burns ivory" and click on google's images then you will see a staggering amount of pictures of statues and other things. They were all first displayed in Times Square and then crushed.

The article says,"Critics contend that it may actually have the opposite effect. By reducing the ivory supply, such events will drive the price up and thus stimulate the poaching of even more elephants, so the argument goes."

Here is the highly respected Scientific American that explains it all. Just click on it and you can click on the photos to enlarge them.

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/files/2013/11/Ivory-elephant-figurine.jpg
 

Here are just some of the 1 Ton of ivory items, worth 12 million dollars, crushed by Obama into powder. I understand the need to protest the senseless killing of elephants and the need to raise money for bringing these poachers down but destruction doesn't fix destruction as the results have found. Nothing has improved in the 2 years after this destructive protest. So we have learned of the need to come up with a more effective plan…whatever it may be. Five photos below (one came out really small).
Scientific American: http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/why-the-us-destroyed-its-ivory-stockpile/

rtx15e4u.jpgimages-3.jpegtimes-square-ivory-crush-7898.0.jpgus-crushes-ton-of-ivory-in-new-york-s-times-square-1434829722-9912.jpgimg7535.JPG
 
Elephants matter more than art to many. Scientific American magazine has drifted considerably from the impartial reputation it once enjoyed. I refuse to own any object bought with the slaughter of terrified elephants, some of them babies. To me these artifacts are at best a "beautiful" abomination. To digress, this reminds me of the beautiful, hand stitched embroidered gloves so valued by wealthy clients in the 19th century. These "works of art" were stitched by impoverished women for pennies on the dollar. Many of these "employed" women died a miserable early death due to malutrition, consumption, etc. Today, those textiles are worth a considerable amount of money. Would I buy them? Never.
 
How is it a secret cover up???.........it's being televised!( in response to Lara's post 15)

I think it will be worthwhile for the shock value. It sends out a very clear message that it's not acceptable to display ivory ornaments etc.
 
Lara, your position regarding the President is clear but let's keep it factual. You have said repeatedly "Obama" crushed, burned, destroyed" art. He did not personally do any such thing. Many were and are involved in the business of trying to preserve the last of the elephants left in the wild. I applaud all involved. Nothing you or I post here will change the situation but hopefully the actions being taken worldwide will.
 
Most of that stuff doesn't even qualify as 'art' to my mind -- I find it ugly, and it appears to be mostly religious artifacts/trinkets. I agree with destroying it to discourage its sale, even though it seems like a daunting task. It should really be unavailable to the mass market in those countries where it is popular. But from the reading, it seems like it is being used as a currency for terrorists, which makes the situation even worse.
 
Cookie said:
Most of that stuff doesn't even qualify as 'art' to my mind -- I find it ugly, and it appears to be mostly religious artifacts/trinkets. I agree with destroying it to discourage its sale, even though it seems like a daunting task. It should really be unavailable to the mass market in those countries where it is popular. But from the reading, it seems like it is being used as a currency for terrorists, which makes the situation even worse.
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I completely agree Cookie, much of it to me is tacky at best, and if it's illegal it should be destroyed to assure it's completely taken off the global market. Knowing these things are being crushed or burned doesn't sadden me in the least, watching wildlife numbers dwindle due to senseless killings from greedy poachers, does make me sad. And to know of all the orphaned elephants affected by this, who I understand depend on their mother's milk for the first two years of their lives, are left vulnerable, really sickens me.
 
Davey Jones said:
Does burning the ivory tusk same the elephants?
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No it doesn't. Perhaps Obama is trying to force people into an awareness of the problem by his actions which are extreme and generate much media coverage. Maybe he should burn one of the White House grand pianos? The keys of old pianos used to be made of ivory.
 
Cultures...When I saw all these pics of the ivory "artifacts", I too thought they were tacky and unappealing. We don't like this stuff because we are from a different culture. These are treasured to the tune of 12 million dollars in other cultures. While very wrong, it's deep-seated tradition for them. They don't see it as wrong.

Hatred for America must have grown enormously from China etc. as they watched us make such a public display in Times Square of arrogantly destroying their culture of what they look at as a lot of respected talented artistic labor for their religious traditions (I repeat, their view). Our actions didn't save one elephant.

Foreign relations..."I don't care if they like us or not", you say? Well, foreign relations with the countries buying this stuff, mostly China, is crucially important to saving these elephants if we want them to work with us to save the elephants from today forward. We can't do anything about what's already done.

Moving forward...Of course it struck me as to how many elephants lost their lives for this unappealing artwork. It made me sick. No one has a softer heart for animals as I do. Unfortunately, what's done is done. Nothing we do will bring back these elephants…it only makes the ivory worth more as they replace their "treasures"...which is counterproductive to our efforts to save the elephants. Only money will save the elephants. Money for law enforcement and educational programs over there, etc.

Peaceful plan...If we want these people over there to work with us to save the elephants we must have good foreign relations. A public display of disrespect for their treasures isn't going to help. We must come up with a peaceful plan where we can all work together on this….using our intelligence rather than our emotional anger.

We Kill Animals too for our own consumerism…Most of us don't see it as wrong. Do you use any of these products?

We kill animals to eat (even baby animals for lamb and veal) when we could very easily live a Paleo diet…and be healthier at that.

We kill pigs and make plastics, floor waxes, crayons, chalk, adhesives, shaving cream, soap, make-up, insulation, rubber, anti-freeze, etc

We kill cattle and make wax paper, lubricants, paints, candles, shampoo, cosmetics, etc

We kill goats, pigs cattle sheep & exotic species, use their hides for wallets, purses, furniture, shoes, car seats, upholstery…anyone have leather seats in their car?

We kill sheep and use their bones, hooves and horns for brushes, gelatin, tape, and pet food.


1. Note to Mitchezz…it was a joke and had an LOL there to indicate the humor in my post #15.
2. Note to AZ Jim…Obama was responsible for this destructive protest. Of course he didn't operate the crusher machine himself. The protest was government run.
3. Note to Sea Breeze…I agree that they are illegal and should be out of global circulation. It's Obama's public, destructive, violent protest in Time Square, which only increased ivory's worth, and probably offended China greatly. That bothers me when a more peaceful approach would have been more effective with educational awareness programs, and more law enforcement.
4. Note to Shalimar…you said you care more about animals than artifacts. I do too but it's already been done. Time to make constructive choices now for the future instead of wasting time publicly humiliating China (for one) for past wrongs. Do you use any of the products above?
 
With some research you will find that China is destroying/crushing ivory too, they have done so several times as someone has already pointed out, many countries are working together to do what is necessary to eliminate the destruction of the elephant.


Why Destroy Ivory? :: 96 Elephants



crush-and-burn.jpg
 
Lara said:
Cultures...When I saw all these pics of the ivory "artifacts", I too thought they were tacky and unappealing. We don't like this stuff because we are from a different culture. These are treasured to the tune of 12 million dollars in other cultures. While very wrong, it's deep-seated tradition for them. They don't see it as wrong.

Hatred for America must have grown enormously from China etc. as they watched us make such a public display in Times Square of arrogantly destroying their culture of what they look at as a lot of respected talented artistic labor for their religious traditions (I repeat, their view). Our actions didn't save one elephant.

Foreign relations..."I don't care if they like us or not", you say? Well, foreign relations with the countries buying this stuff, mostly China, is crucially important to saving these elephants if we want them to work with us to save the elephants from today forward. We can't do anything about what's already done.

Moving forward...Of course it struck me as to how many elephants lost their lives for this unappealing artwork. It made me sick. No one has a softer heart for animals as I do. Unfortunately, what's done is done. Nothing we do will bring back these elephants…it only makes the ivory worth more as they replace their "treasures"...which is counterproductive to our efforts to save the elephants. Only money will save the elephants. Money for law enforcement and educational programs over there, etc.

Peaceful plan...If we want these people over there to work with us to save the elephants we must have good foreign relations. A public display of disrespect for their treasures isn't going to help. We must come up with a peaceful plan where we can all work together on this….using our intelligence rather than our emotional anger.

We Kill Animals too for our own consumerism…Most of us don't see it as wrong. Do you use any of these products?

We kill animals to eat (even baby animals for lamb and veal) when we could very easily live a Paleo diet…and be healthier at that.

We kill pigs and make plastics, floor waxes, crayons, chalk, adhesives, shaving cream, soap, make-up, insulation, rubber, anti-freeze, etc

We kill cattle and make wax paper, lubricants, paints, candles, shampoo, cosmetics, etc

We kill goats, pigs cattle sheep & exotic species, use their hides for wallets, purses, furniture, shoes, car seats, upholstery…anyone have leather seats in their car?

We kill sheep and use their bones, hooves and horns for brushes, gelatin, tape, and pet food.


1. Note to Mitchezz…it was a joke and had an LOL there to indicate the humor in my post #15.
2. Note to AZ Jim…Obama was responsible for this destructive protest. Of course he didn't operate the crusher machine himself. The protest was government run.
3. Note to Sea Breeze…I agree that they are illegal and should be out of global circulation. It's Obama's public, destructive, violent protest in Time Square, which only increased ivory's worth, and probably offended China greatly. That bothers me when a more peaceful approach would have been more effective with educational awareness programs, and more law enforcement.
4. Note to Shalimar…you said you care more about animals than artifacts. I do too but it's already been done. Time to make constructive choices now for the future instead of wasting time publicly humiliating China (for one) for past wrongs. Do you use any of the products above?
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Note to Lara, All of the animals we kill and that you used as examples in this post are killed for food. They are raised for that purpose. The fact that we use every part of these animals for byproducts is an example of good stewardship not waste. Your defense of "art" at the cost of the few remaining elephants is hard to understand and as you are finding equally hard to justify.

While I find you persistence commendable, it is trumped by those equally passionate in the cause of the elephants and rhinos..
 
Lara said:
3. Note to Sea Breeze…I agree that they are illegal and should be out of global circulation. It's Obama's public, destructive, violent protest in Time Square, which only increased ivory's worth, and probably offended China greatly.
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That Obama, he's a monster!! Don't know what we can do about him! :D Seriously now, what was done by the US and other countries with illegal ivory is make a statement and make a first step toward stopping this killing/poaching for statues and trinkets.

We do kill animals for meat, and will many times use what we can for other products. I'm not against hunting animals for food either...but, this falls into the category of Trophy Hunting, where animals are killed so some fat cat can sit in his den with a fully stuffed lion displayed on a bear rug.

Killing these elephants and other animals and leaving their babies orphaned to profit from their tusks is disgusting, one reason I like animals more than most people. That's my opinion anyway, our President did good.


Kerry-Krottinger-Lion-Hunter-Criticized-Like-Walter-Palmer-By-Conservationists-Photo.jpg
 
My god, looking at those smug individuals in that graveyard makes me homicidal! Gimme a crossbow, and let's go people hunting. Anybody wanna come with? We can make lampshades out of their skins, shrink their heads, and sell it on E Bay. All proceeds donated to the preservation of animals and their ethical treatment etc.
 
You are right SB, but we have to start somewhere. Many of my kid's generation won't wear fur, think it is an abomination. My son and his wife help pay for the care of an orphaned baby elephant in Africa. There is hope.
 
Happyflowerlady said:
I just read this, and am amazed at the weird things that our president comes up with.
Now, he intends to take millions of dollars worth of valuable ivory collector items, antiques, and other beautiful items and smash them (on camera) to proclaim that he is against illegal killing of elephants.
I imagine that most of us would be against the killing of elephants for the tusks, especially when some of them are nearing extinction, but I fail to see how this destruction of ivory that may have been carved 200 years or more ago, is in any way related to stopping the elephant hunters today.


Isn't that kind of like the parents of the early 1950s who told their children to clean up their plates because there were all the starving children in China ? (We all dutifully ate our dinners, but it didn't make any sense to us, even at that early age).


http://www.scmp.com/news/world/article/1353602/us-ivory-stockpile-be-publicly-destroyed-obamas-order
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Poachers can hide their illegal ivory in a 'legal' ivory market. That's why a number of countries have decided to do exactly the same thing.
The terrible suffering of entire elephant families for the sake of junk made of their teeth is a travesty and it must be stopped at all costs or there will be no elephants left at all.

Baby elephants who are found, orphaned beside their dead faceless mothers are taken in when they are found and cared for by rescues but what happens to them when they are grown and they have tusks? They will be poached in turn and eventually there won't be a single one left.


http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists...anthony-south-africas-elephant-whisperer.php#

Lawrence Anthony, known as the Elephant Whisperer saved two rogue herds from destruction and when he died, those two herds made their way thru Zululand on a pilgrimage to honour the man who saved their lives. No one knows how they, who were miles away, knew that he had died but for two days, after they arrived back at the place where he gave them a second chance at life, they quietly paid homage to their rescuer and honoured him by their presence. And then they disappeared back into the forest.

lawrence-anthony-tribute.jpg For their sake, the ivory must be destroyed. It was stolen and doesn't belong to people.
 
Happyflowerlady said:
Warri, If i thought it would even make a difference in the elephant killing towards stopping it, I would be glad; however, all I can see is that it is not going to stop illegal killing for the tusks, and now the price will be even higher since so many of the artifacts are now destroyed.
There is a link to the news article that I read posted in my first post on this topic, and also a short interview on you tube that actually shows the ivory, Siberian Tigers, and other illegal animals/animal products that are in the warehouse in Denver. The video link is in the second post I made.
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In the countries where they do it, it shines a light on the violence and the tragedy of it and will start more of those people thinking about how wrong it is. How many years do you think they have tried just hiring people to try and protect the elephants and yet the slaughter continues and extinction draws nearer. Sometimes it takes a 'big' attention getter to get peoples attention.

Countries that have destroyed stockpiles of confiscated and illegal ivory:


  1. the roll includes Gabon, the Philippines, USA, China, France, Chad, Belgium, Hong Kong, Kenya and Ethiopia, making UAE and Congo the 11th and 12th countries to do so within the last three years.Apr 29, 2015

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...es-heres-why-thats-so-important-10213544.html

'...Why are these countries destroying their ivory? In part, it is in protest: to send a message to the world community to stop buying ivory. In part, it is a message: symbolizing a countries’ intention to adopt a zero-tolerance attitude to poachers and traffickers. But it is much more than that. The international trade in ivory has been banned since 1989, when it marked the collapse of the then principle ivory markets in Europe and America and the beginning of a steady decline in demand in Japan....'


 
Lara said:
............
Hatred for America must have grown enormously from China etc. as they watched us make such a public display in Times Square of arrogantly destroying their culture of what they look at as a lot of respected talented artistic labor for their religious traditions (I repeat, their view). Our actions didn't save one elephant.

............Most of us don't see it as wrong. Do you use any of these products?

We kill animals to eat (even baby animals for lamb and veal) when we could very easily live a Paleo diet…and be healthier at that.

We kill pigs and make plastics, floor waxes, crayons, chalk, adhesives, shaving cream, soap, make-up, insulation, rubber, anti-freeze, etc

We kill cattle and make wax paper, lubricants, paints, candles, shampoo, cosmetics, etc

We kill goats, pigs cattle sheep & exotic species, use their hides for wallets, purses, furniture, shoes, car seats, upholstery…anyone have leather seats in their car?

We kill sheep and use their bones, hooves and horns for brushes, gelatin, tape, and pet food.


.........
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You would be wrong about that Lara because China has done the same thing! Beijing Destroys Confiscated Ivory:

http://sinosphere.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/05/29/beijing-destroys-confiscated-ivory-in-effort-to-curb-illegal-trade/?_r=0

29sino-ivory01-tmagArticle.jpg

Also a Paleo diet is focused on meat consumption and studies (I can get you links) have shown that health outcomes (when it comes to obesity, diabetes, heart disease and some forms of cancer)on a veg diet are better than a meat inclusive diet. A study was also done that showed that a meat inclusive diet, long term, is less environmentally sustainable than a veg diet and particularly as we approach a global population of 9+ billion. And almost every one of those products you mention can just as easily be made without any animal (cruelty) involved.

Also it was mentioned education and law enforcement as a 'better' way to end the slaughter of elephants. How's that been working with drug abuse? Lots of education, lots of law enforcement and drug addicts and dealers and producers are still haunting our societies. It seems to me that 'good' 'law abiding' folks tend to be more concerned about their wallets than anything else and it seems to me that the possibility of losing the money they spent on their 'trinkets' will go a lot further than gentle persuasion and requests to not hurt the elephants.
 
Thank you Debbie. The fact that China has done the same thing does change the picture.

Also, I had forgotten that paleo included meat. I should have said vegetarian. Thank you for the reminder.
 
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