Oh, no....another shooting!

Olivia said:
That was not my point. Honest to God, so many Americans believe we are the center of the universe. We should realize that we are so-called "aliens" to people of other countries, correct? Gumbud was not making his views while he was here in the U.S. It was his opinion, and rightly so from his views from another country. And that's not allowed? Really? Because only Americans can criticize other Americans? Interesting, because there are myriads of Americans who DO criticize other countries ALL THE TIME! I guess we are just blessed by God himself, who allows that???
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All I did was copy and paste the definition for "alien" because you thought it was a derogatory word. Not sure where all your hostility and chastisement is coming from...surely not from my post.
 

Lara said:
All I did was copy and paste the definition for "alien" because you thought it was a derogatory word. Not sure where all your chastisement is coming from...surely not from my post.
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Oh, I see. You just didn't think I was aware of the definition of "alien" in the context of Big Horn's post. Got it.
 
Big Horn said:
I have the solution: leave and don't come back. Besides, guns aren't the only problem for you here. We also have freedom of speech, freedom of the press, and other constitutional principles that aliens hate.
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Apparently, you seem to believe that those of us from Australia, Canada, Britain etc, live in a less free society than America? Interesting. Many of us would disagree. Also, freedom to disagree in a courteous fashion is one of the hallmarks of a free society, otherwise one lives in a totalitarian state.
 
Shalimar said:
Apparently, you seem to believe that those of us from Australia, Canada, Britain etc, live in a less free society than America? Interesting. Many of us would disagree. Also, freedom to disagree in a courteous fashion is one of the hallmarks of a free society, otherwise one lives in a totalitarian state.
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Freedom of speech and freedom of the press aren't needed by courteous people. However, we accord rights to all—including the discourteous and disruptive. They are the ones who need protection.

Anyone could, and almost certainly would, be imprisoned in your country for stating heterodox views of the so-called Holocaust. However, I can call it the Holohoax without fear in America because I have unalienable rights here which you can never have.
 
It saddens me greatly that this thread, and so many others, quickly turned into a petty pi$$ing contest. 5 people dead and the best we can do is bicker about the definition of alien?? 😢
 
Anyway, I love my Country, USA....I don't even want to visit another Country....We did go to several Islands for vacation, but maybe they were pretty at the resort, but not pretty going anywhere else.
We have gone to Canada and Mexico when we were younger...I will stay in our great country till I die....I'm not the traveling girl I use to be.....
 
Big Horn said:
Freedom of speech and freedom of the press aren't needed by courteous people. However, we accord rights to all—including the discourteous and disruptive. They are the ones who need protection.

Anyone could, and almost certainly would, be imprisoned in your country for stating heterodox views of the so-called Holocaust. However, I can call it the Holohoax without fear in America because I have unalienable rights here which you can never have.
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Actually, in the nineteen nineties, the Canadian Supreme Court struck down a law that would have put a Holocaust Denier in prison. Although frowned on, these views will not land one in prison.
 
Olivia, about whose side God is on, there is a wonderful song in the musical "1776," sung by one of Robert E. Lee's ancestors to John Adams:

They say that God in heaven is everybody's God
I'll admit that God in heaven is everybody's God
But I tell you, John, with pride,
God leans a little on the side
Of the Lee's, the Lee's of old Virgina!
 
Okay, Sunny, now you've done it. LOL


Live BBC performance by Bob Dylan on the 'Tonight' evening current affairs show, performing the protest song 'With God on Our Side'. Must be one of the only BBC performances he made except for the ''Madhouse on Castle Street'' programme in 1962 (sadly missing from the archives).
 
Americans who believe that our country innately has or somehow demonstrates moral superiority, greater wealth, brighter futures, smarter children, happier life experience, and more of God's favor than other nations, do so despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

I'm an American, but not an ignorant one. Many other countries have instituted solutions to the problems we stubbornly continue to wrestle with. We have much to teach but also much to learn.
 
StarSong said:
Americans who believe that our country innately has or somehow demonstrates moral superiority, greater wealth, brighter futures, smarter children, happier life experience, and more of God's favor than other nations, do so despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

I'm an American, but not an ignorant one. Many other countries have instituted solutions to the problems we stubbornly continue to wrestle with. We have much to teach but also much to learn.
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Well said, Starsong.
 
StarSong said:
Americans who believe that our country innately has or somehow demonstrates moral superiority, greater wealth, brighter futures, smarter children, happier life experience, and more of God's favor than other nations, do so despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
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I don't believe our country "demonstrates moral superiority, greater wealth, brighter futures, smarter children, happier life experience, AND more of God's favor than other nations".

BUT, I can't think of any other country that "innately has or somehow demonstrates" all that either. Can you?

Despite our imperfections, I love America as a whole. If I didn't I would move to greener pastures.

So instead of tearing it down I'll choose to focus on building it up.
 
Lara said:
I don't believe our country "demonstrates moral superiority, greater wealth, brighter futures, smarter children, happier life experience, AND more of God's favor than other nations".

BUT, I can't think of any other country that "innately has or somehow demonstrates" all that either. Can you?
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That's rather my point. Perhaps not you, but many Americans spend an awful lot of energy trying to convince the world - or perhaps themselves - that the US is "the best." Despite those proclamations, the objective evidence shows that if there were contests (and there shouldn't be) we would not be getting the gold medal in every category.

There is plenty of room for the US to improve, but as long as we keep beating our chests and proclaiming superiority we deny ourselves the opportunity to do so.

Just as loving other people doesn't blind us to their imperfections, neither should love and loyalty to our home countries blind us to areas that desperately need improvement.
 
StarSong said:
...Perhaps not you, but many Americans spend an awful lot of energy trying to convince the world - or perhaps themselves - that the US is "the best."

There is plenty of room for the US to improve, but as long as we keep beating our chests and proclaiming superiority we deny ourselves the opportunity to do so.

Just as loving other people doesn't blind us to their imperfections, neither should love and loyalty to our home countries blind us to areas that desperately need improvement.
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Don't you see it, StarSong? Don't you see that the "many Americans beating their chests proclaiming superiority", as you say, are only reacting to being pushed by provokers like yourself (you even live in America, and those from foreign countries too] to defend their countrymen from being trashed.

Those Americans (not "many" as you say) are not saying they're the best. They're defending their fellow countrymen by saying they are not as bad as the name-callers say.

And while they're getting louder out of defensive frustration to the provokers, the provokers are also getting louder in calling "many" Americans bigoted and "proclaiming superiority". It's a confrontation that some don't handle well but it's natural to defend your country and countrymen who are being trashed.
 
Lara said:
Don't you see it, StarSong? Don't you see that the "many Americans beating their chests proclaiming superiority", as you say, are only reacting to being pushed by provokers like yourself (you even live in America, and those from foreign countries too] to defend their countrymen from being trashed

Those Americans (not many as you say) are not saying they're the best. They're defending their fellow countrymen by saying they are not as bad as the name-callers say.

And while they're getting louder out of defensive frustration to the provokers, the provokers are also getting louder in calling "many" Americans bigoted and "proclaiming superiority". It's a confrontation that some don't handle well but it's natural to defend your countrymen who are being trashed.
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Excuse me, I do not tear down America, but I do have a right to politely address any poster who, in a very impolite manner, makes false statements re my country and its laws.
 
Lara, in no way am I implying that you personally have attacked me or my country. My post was in response to #45, where it was mentioned that certain remarks came as a result of provokers etc. Not always, certainly not in my case. Canadians are not fond of being provoked either, and the person who did so, has made similar comments in the past. My association with you is cordial.
 
StarSong said:
That's rather my point. Perhaps not you, but many Americans spend an awful lot of energy trying to convince the world - or perhaps themselves - that the US is "the best." Despite those proclamations, the objective evidence shows that if there were contests (and there shouldn't be) we would not be getting the gold medal in every category.

There is plenty of room for the US to improve, but as long as we keep beating our chests and proclaiming superiority we deny ourselves the opportunity to do so.

Just as loving other people doesn't blind us to their imperfections, neither should love and loyalty to our home countries blind us to areas that desperately need improvement.
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Lara said:
Don't you see it, StarSong? Don't you see that the "many Americans beating their chests proclaiming superiority", as you say, are only reacting to being pushed by provokers like yourself (you even live in America, and those from foreign countries too] to defend their countrymen from being trashed.

Those Americans (not "many" as you say) are not saying they're the best. They're defending their fellow countrymen by saying they are not as bad as the name-callers say.

And while they're getting louder out of defensive frustration to the provokers, the provokers are also getting louder in calling "many" Americans bigoted and "proclaiming superiority". It's a confrontation that some don't handle well but it's natural to defend your country and countrymen who are being trashed.
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I sincerely thank you for this well written response. Your point is well made about people of all beliefs becoming defensive and entrenched in our positions when we feel attacked or provoked.

I think we're talking about different things on this particular thread. My comments about people beating their chests about America was in reference to how we often behave toward the rest of the world. Our internal political divide is a sad matter that we all hope will begin to heal sooner rather than later. I brought up nothing about bigotry.

Lara said:
I believe you're addressing someone else, shalimar...not me.

I have never impolitely made false statements re your country....ever. Nor did I accuse you of tearing down America.

In fact, I've been nothing but supportive of our canadian friends and their country: https://www.seniorforums.com/showthread.php/36567-Tomorrow-is-Canada-Day!

I did, however, accuse Star Song of tearing down "many Americans" as she put it.
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I stand by my statement, "There is plenty of room for the US to improve, but as long as we keep beating our chests and proclaiming superiority we deny ourselves the opportunity to do so.

Just as loving other people doesn't blind us to their imperfections, neither should love and loyalty to our home countries blind us to areas that desperately need improvement."

If you see that as "tearing down many Americans," so be it.
 
Shalimar, I didn't use the word "always" in post #45. I rarely ever use the word "always" as I understand the problem with that.

Star Song, I agree, "there is plenty of room for the US to improve", just as there is for all countries on the planet.

As long as there is man's sin nature, and I will use "always" for that, there will be room for improvement.

So I think we all understand each other and it's been a good conversation. *handshake*...still friends
 

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