Oregon becomes the first state to decriminalize hard drugs like cocaine and heroin

asp3 said:
That's a good description of it. According to the article I read about the measure that passed there is now a $100 fine and mandatory participation in an addiction recovery program. I posted the same information near the start of the thread.
Click to expand...
Yes, I read the entire thread, but the difference between the two still seems a bit muddled to me.

I guess I'd boil it down to: Does the punishment fit the crime.
 

Last edited:
Gardenlover said:
Yes, I read the entire thread, but the difference between the two still seems a bit muddled to me.

I guess I'd boil it down to: Does the punishment fit the crime.
Click to expand...

It depends on whether you think it's more useful to put people who are in possession of small amounts of controlled substances in jail or in treatment programs.

To me I think the punishment does fit the crime. It also reduces the cost of dealing with those with substance abuse issues by taking out the court and jail costs. Others disagree with me, but it appears that a majority of those who voted on the measure in Oregon agree with me.
 

Felons may lose the following rights. The last three are what I consider to be the biggies of ever returning to what society deems a normal life.
Right to Bear Arms
Right to Vote
Right to Travel Abroad
Other Political Rights
Parental Rights
Loss of Benefit Programs
Employee Discrimination

With this in mind, I think people who are in possession of small amounts of controlled substances would be better served with treatment programs.

My thoughts are focused on the user not a dealer and of course the punishment changes if other crimes are committed while under the influence.
 
Let’s be clear about this issue. If a state decriminalized an otherwise illegal drug, it simply means that if you are caught with an illegal substance, the courts are able to go easier on that person, unless they are on Federal lands where only Federal law would apply.

Will decriminalizing the laws in Oregon draw addicts into the state. I would think it would be possible, but time will tell.
 
Gaer said:
Legalize heroin in the middle of an opiod crisis? Bethumped, I am.
Click to expand...

Once again, it isn't legalized, it's possession has been decriminalized. It is still illegal to possess the decriminalized substances but it's more like parking in a red zone as opposed to writing a bad check or shoplifting. (I'm comparing criminality of the acts as opposed to the societal seriousness)
 
asp3 said:
Once again, it isn't legalized, it's possession has been decriminalized. It is still illegal to possess the decriminalized substances but it's more like parking in a red zone as opposed to writing a bad check or shoplifting. (I'm comparing criminality of the acts as opposed to the societal seriousness)
Click to expand...
One can rationalize

but

no matter how one sees it, it's a step in the wrong direction

I do know the court system is a joke, a turnstile
No room in the jails
....and if one does go to jail, they don't stay long

Maybe decriminalization is an answer for now

But, down the line, it's just a step....down the spiral staircase
 
Makes a good social justice issue ie individual right to chose. But the public at large is at physical danger from these users just like a drunk driver. And with the rehab they'll need it will be frequently be at the taxpayers expense.
 
Gary O' said:
One can rationalize

but

no matter how one sees it, it's a step in the wrong direction

I do know the court system is a joke, a turnstile
No room in the jails
....and if one does go to jail, they don't stay long

Maybe decriminalization is an answer for now

But, down the line, it's just a step....down the spiral staircase
Click to expand...

It's the way you see it not "no matter how one sees it".

We see how well criminalization of substance use has worked so far. It's time to try something different.

I find it sad that we as a society are OK to put people in jail and pay for it because they are using illegal mind altering substances. But we don't want to pay for programs to help them prevent or deal with their addictions and allow them to function as productive members of society.
 
WhatInThe said:
Makes a good social justice issue ie individual right to chose. But the public at large is at physical danger from these users just like a drunk driver. And with the rehab they'll need it will be frequently be at the taxpayers expense.
Click to expand...

Since we're generally OK with the laws that try to prevent people using alcohol from being a physical danger we can just apply those laws to them. I think most "drunk driving" laws are more under the influence laws any way so they already work.
 
asp3 said:
It's the way you see it not "no matter how one sees it".
Click to expand...
No, it's a fact
Read your history books
Those of Rome contain the most recent exemplary history

Hey, we've had our 200 years of excess
All thru recent history, that's pretty much the norm
Then, the fall

But, think what you may

I do agree, you can't legislate morality
 
The topic demands a discussion of the Criminal Justice System which is archaic.
Substance abuse has been a social/cultural problem for over a hundred years.
Our court system is not equipped to deal with any problem that does not involve
putting the offender in jail.

This takes us to the Dept of Corrections...
which is a convoluted mess...

You can legislate morality (SORT'A) you can make the transgressor very sorry
that He Got Caught, curtailing his behavior is another matter entirely.
 
Last edited:
Gary O' said:
No, it's a fact
Read your history books
Those of Rome contain the most recent exemplary history

Hey, we've had our 200 years of excess
All thru recent history, that's pretty much the norm
Then, the fall

But, think what you may

I do agree, you can't legislate morality
Click to expand...

You said that "no matter how one sees it it's a step in the wrong direction"

You then said it is a fact because of history. You fail to take into account we know so much more about addiction and psychology. Also I challenge you to show evidence of this step being take before in history because it hasn't. There weren't addiction recovery programs in the past.

You also bring up Rome but they still thought that health was regulated by the humors of the body. So I take anything they did to have been done without modern knowledge.

Drugs were decriminalized in Portugal in 2001 and it lead to a number of positive effects. An article from November 2018 is available here https://transformdrugs.org/drug-decriminalisation-in-portugal-setting-the-record-straight/

So what you said is not a fact unless you restate it somehow. There is also evidence that it is a step in the right direction based on the results of the decriminalization in Portugal. So I think you'd be hard pressed to make your statement that it's a step in the wrong direction a fact. I do agree that it is a reasonable opinion but once again that's how you see it rather than no matter how you see it.
 
asp3 said:
I do agree that it is a reasonable opinion but once again that's how you see it rather than no matter how you see it.
Click to expand...
Sounds good to me
Guess dealing with my daughter's addictions, and the ordeal of her failed legislated treatments, have me biased.
Forgive me

I sincerely hope you're right
 
Gary O' said:
Sounds good to me
Guess dealing with my daughter's addictions, and the ordeal of her failed legislated treatments, have me biased.
Forgive me

I sincerely hope you're right
Click to expand...

I'm sorry you've had to live with your daughter's addictions. Thankfully I can only imagine how difficult that's been and that still would not allow me to know how it feels to be in your position. I can see how your experience would make you wary of such changes. I do agree that what we have now isn't as effective as it needs to be, but we are learning and improving.

I hope I'm right too.
 
I attend between 3-5 AA meetings a week. In my time of sobriety I also have attended several HA, CA, and NA meetings. I am friends with many who I would not have given the time of day twenty years ago but now are outstanding and responsible citizens (truth be told I would not have given myself the time of day twenty years ago). Many I met did receive harsh jail terms and found a program that fit their needs while in jail. I also know many who only continued their habit while in prison or jail (drugs in prison is very common and often easier to get then on the streets) and only recovered when they got out and went into rehab. One can argue all they want about whether or not decriminalization will work in the United States and it is certainly a topic that has my interest but the one truth will remain and that is a person will only recover if he or she wants to . No jail term is going to deter a person from using if they want to and no forced rehab center will change a person's behavior either if he or she is not willing to make a change in their life and admit that they are an addict.

I know this is a rather ambivalent post regarding the topic but there is not an easy solution and I am not sure if there is a right or wrong answer. In my opinion the prison times that have been given in the past have been rather harsh but there is a whole different side to look at also. Many addicts who are in prison are not there because they were busted for possession. They are in prison or jails because they stole , cheated or extorted to get money to feed their habit. In those cases, I am 100 % behind any jail time given to them. But for simple possession ? I lean towards lighter jail time with a mandatory rehabilitation program. One thing that I wish would happen is more money spent for rehab programs while the offender is in jail. I know several people who spent up to three years in prison for DWI charges but where not introduced to a program such as Smart Recovery or AA until they were released from prison. Yes, there are AA programs in prisons and jail but often the meetings are not offered on a consistent basis.

One other quick note..I have met many who ten years ago I would have given the time of day to but are now struggling with their addiction because they got into some random accident, were prescribed pain kills, and became addicts. It is not some made up plot for the Hallmark Channel, it is reality.

We can discuss all we want if this will work in Oregon but the most important thing to remember is nothing will work at all until the addict is ready to admit that they are an addict and needs some type of help. Sorry for the ramble.
 
MarkinPhx said:
We can discuss all we want if this will work in Oregon but the most important thing to remember is nothing will work at all until the addict is ready to admit that they are an addict and needs some type of help. Sorry for the ramble.
Click to expand...
So very true
 


Back
Top