Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
There will certainly be a lawsuit because his injuries were substantial.
This is some of what his attorney had to say recently.
This is some of what his attorney had to say recently.
Passenger dragged off Plane
- Thread starter AprilT
- Start date
I heard on the news tonight that one of the 3 people to get off the plane was this man's wife. So I guess he was going to leave her there and go off without her. If I got off a plane for $800 and my husband didn't I'd be quite angry at him. That's $1600 they could have had for waiting a few hours.
I agree with everything Radish Rose said in Post #50.
And so far all the medical reports I've heard about are coming from this man's attorney. I am looking forward to a medical report from a licensed doctor.
I agree with everything Radish Rose said in Post #50.
And so far all the medical reports I've heard about are coming from this man's attorney. I am looking forward to a medical report from a licensed doctor.
Knight
Well-known Member
The cost of this to United Airlines will exceed anything the airline could have imagined when they asked for and received the authorities that removed that passenger.
The silver lining is that other airlines got a free lesson on how things can go horribly wrong when protocols are used.
Like oldman pointed out if this man was a terrorist and was forcibly removed the police following proto call would be hero's. The reason makes all the difference. I have to admit I'm not a fan of anyone not following instructions given by police officers. His refusal to de board because he was going to see patients is lost in all this. I hope the patients that the 69 yr. old doctor had to see the next day saw a doctor to attend to whatever their needs were.
The silver lining is that other airlines got a free lesson on how things can go horribly wrong when protocols are used.
Like oldman pointed out if this man was a terrorist and was forcibly removed the police following proto call would be hero's. The reason makes all the difference. I have to admit I'm not a fan of anyone not following instructions given by police officers. His refusal to de board because he was going to see patients is lost in all this. I hope the patients that the 69 yr. old doctor had to see the next day saw a doctor to attend to whatever their needs were.
It's really been a rough week for United ... now this today:
The same day a passenger was infamously dragged off a United plane in Chicago, a man on a United flight from Houston to Calgary was allegedly stung by a scorpion. The venomous creature fell from an overhead bin and landed on Richard Bell's hair as he was eating lunch Sunday in his business class seat, according to his wife Linda. "My husband felt something in his hair. He grabbed it out of his hair and it fell onto his dinner table. As he was grabbing it by the tail it stung him," she told CNN. She said her husband shooed the scorpion off his tray and it landed in the aisle, catching the attention of a nearby passenger who cried, "Oh my god, that's a scorpion."It's not clear how the scorpion got on the plane. The airplane had flown to Houston earlier in the day from Costa Rica, according to FlightAware, a flight-tracking platform.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/13/health/scorpion-united-airlines-flight-trnd/index.html
The same day a passenger was infamously dragged off a United plane in Chicago, a man on a United flight from Houston to Calgary was allegedly stung by a scorpion. The venomous creature fell from an overhead bin and landed on Richard Bell's hair as he was eating lunch Sunday in his business class seat, according to his wife Linda. "My husband felt something in his hair. He grabbed it out of his hair and it fell onto his dinner table. As he was grabbing it by the tail it stung him," she told CNN. She said her husband shooed the scorpion off his tray and it landed in the aisle, catching the attention of a nearby passenger who cried, "Oh my god, that's a scorpion."It's not clear how the scorpion got on the plane. The airplane had flown to Houston earlier in the day from Costa Rica, according to FlightAware, a flight-tracking platform.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/13/health/scorpion-united-airlines-flight-trnd/index.html
RadishRose
SF VIP
- Location
- Connecticut, USA
My goodness, it reminds me of that movie "Snakes on a Plane" ! (which I did not see)
Last evening, a friend of mine who lives in Chicago and still works at United called me and of course, we spoke about the incident now before us. I had no idea that United had offered anyone wishing to give up their seat an $800.00 voucher and a paid hotel room, not to exceed $200.00, making it a $1000.00 payout. That's enough moola to pay for two r/t tickets to anywhere in the continental U.S. Not a bad offering.
Also, let's be clear, I never said that United should not share the blame for this incident. Normally, these issues are settled out of court. The jury will probably award him a lot of money, but he will share in the blame, which will be something like: Passenger X =10%, United 30% and the police department 60%. The police department, or airport security should share in most of the blame because it was their people that did the deed. United did not request that the man be dragged off of the plane. But, this is all conjecture on my part and we will most likely never know the outcome because it will also be likely to be settled out of court with a gag order being placed on the defendants and plaintiffs. Normally, that's how this type of thing goes down.
United does carry a hefty liability policy, but here again, insurance companies decide whether to pay off or not on claims of this type. If they feel that the company knowingly did something that caused this incident to happen, they may try to negate the claim, or reduce their portion of the payout. It has happened before. I also believe that whatever the size of the jury award will be, the defendants will appeal the jury's decision, in order to have the payout be a lesser amount. Either way, United shareholders will see their holdings being lowered.
United definitely needs to change their policy. It's my guess that the crew had to get to their destination (Louisville) to take charge of a flight that had a plane waiting for them, but no crew. I have also been in that situation, but no one ever got kicked off of their flight. If I had to get to, say for instance; Chicago, I would often fly in the cockpit's jump seat (if the plane was full) and is the most uncomfortable seat on the plane. This was a crew of four, I believe that needed to get to their destination.
United's policy for boarding passengers, as it stands now, was not followed, but that was never printed in the papers, or at least not that I have read it wasn't. In actuality, the Gate Agent messed up. If the plane being boarded seats 130 passengers, the GA should know how many passengers will be boarding from the number of passengers that have checked-in. Of course, there are always late check-ins, but even still, no standbys should be boarded until ten minutes before the departure time. If the plane is due to depart at 5:00 p.m., the GA is permitted to release any remaining open seats, whether ticketed or not, which would include standbys. If someone gets to the gate at 4:55 and has a seat number and their seat was filled by a standby passenger, too bad, they are locked out, unless there is still remaining seats. The main cabin door is supposed to be closed at departure time, but I know of at least two airlines that close their door at 10 minutes before departure time to prevent, in part, this type of incident from happening. Once the cabin door has been secured, it does not get opened, unless there is a maintenance problem, or a real emergency. I remember on one flight that I was flying, we had actually been pushed back from the gate and had to return to the gate to pick-up a donor organ. Now, that's a real emergency and I was happy to do so. However, here again, we get another passenger because the donor organ does not go without a chaperone. So, if the plane would have been full, we would have been faced with a similar situation. I really doubt if we would have had a problem getting a passenger off the plane, if need be. Heck, with the reward for a passenger giving up their seat, I am sure we would have had a few takers.
The last thing to consider is, "Did the crew get to the gate late?" If they did, then everything that I wrote above goes out the window, but I doubt that this happened. The crew will be seated and United or any other airline will make an offer that should attract some takers. I also read that the doctor is claiming racial profiling because he is Chinese. Is that correct? If so, then that part of the suit will be tossed out of the suit because it fails to meet its merits. IOW, look around the cabin, I am sure that there may have been people from all different ethnics.
I had read on this board at one time that one of our posters was a former Flight Attendant. If so, I was hoping that she/he would have commented on this. I would like to know how other airlines have handled this type of issue and also what their boarding procedure is. One thing that does bug me is that foreign airlines seldom make the papers. It has always seemed to me that they have their act together more than we do here in the U.S. I have flown on Singapore Airlines and I must admit, I was treated like royalty. Same for British Airways and also Qantas.
It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.
Also, let's be clear, I never said that United should not share the blame for this incident. Normally, these issues are settled out of court. The jury will probably award him a lot of money, but he will share in the blame, which will be something like: Passenger X =10%, United 30% and the police department 60%. The police department, or airport security should share in most of the blame because it was their people that did the deed. United did not request that the man be dragged off of the plane. But, this is all conjecture on my part and we will most likely never know the outcome because it will also be likely to be settled out of court with a gag order being placed on the defendants and plaintiffs. Normally, that's how this type of thing goes down.
United does carry a hefty liability policy, but here again, insurance companies decide whether to pay off or not on claims of this type. If they feel that the company knowingly did something that caused this incident to happen, they may try to negate the claim, or reduce their portion of the payout. It has happened before. I also believe that whatever the size of the jury award will be, the defendants will appeal the jury's decision, in order to have the payout be a lesser amount. Either way, United shareholders will see their holdings being lowered.
United definitely needs to change their policy. It's my guess that the crew had to get to their destination (Louisville) to take charge of a flight that had a plane waiting for them, but no crew. I have also been in that situation, but no one ever got kicked off of their flight. If I had to get to, say for instance; Chicago, I would often fly in the cockpit's jump seat (if the plane was full) and is the most uncomfortable seat on the plane. This was a crew of four, I believe that needed to get to their destination.
United's policy for boarding passengers, as it stands now, was not followed, but that was never printed in the papers, or at least not that I have read it wasn't. In actuality, the Gate Agent messed up. If the plane being boarded seats 130 passengers, the GA should know how many passengers will be boarding from the number of passengers that have checked-in. Of course, there are always late check-ins, but even still, no standbys should be boarded until ten minutes before the departure time. If the plane is due to depart at 5:00 p.m., the GA is permitted to release any remaining open seats, whether ticketed or not, which would include standbys. If someone gets to the gate at 4:55 and has a seat number and their seat was filled by a standby passenger, too bad, they are locked out, unless there is still remaining seats. The main cabin door is supposed to be closed at departure time, but I know of at least two airlines that close their door at 10 minutes before departure time to prevent, in part, this type of incident from happening. Once the cabin door has been secured, it does not get opened, unless there is a maintenance problem, or a real emergency. I remember on one flight that I was flying, we had actually been pushed back from the gate and had to return to the gate to pick-up a donor organ. Now, that's a real emergency and I was happy to do so. However, here again, we get another passenger because the donor organ does not go without a chaperone. So, if the plane would have been full, we would have been faced with a similar situation. I really doubt if we would have had a problem getting a passenger off the plane, if need be. Heck, with the reward for a passenger giving up their seat, I am sure we would have had a few takers.
The last thing to consider is, "Did the crew get to the gate late?" If they did, then everything that I wrote above goes out the window, but I doubt that this happened. The crew will be seated and United or any other airline will make an offer that should attract some takers. I also read that the doctor is claiming racial profiling because he is Chinese. Is that correct? If so, then that part of the suit will be tossed out of the suit because it fails to meet its merits. IOW, look around the cabin, I am sure that there may have been people from all different ethnics.
I had read on this board at one time that one of our posters was a former Flight Attendant. If so, I was hoping that she/he would have commented on this. I would like to know how other airlines have handled this type of issue and also what their boarding procedure is. One thing that does bug me is that foreign airlines seldom make the papers. It has always seemed to me that they have their act together more than we do here in the U.S. I have flown on Singapore Airlines and I must admit, I was treated like royalty. Same for British Airways and also Qantas.
It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.
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Butterfly
SF VIP
- Location
- Albuquerque, New Mexico USA
IMHO, the passenger is largely to blame for this incident escalating to where it did. I can't think of anyone I know (and I know my share of crabby, difficult people, having worked for attorneys for years) who would have pushed it to this point. I am sure this person was warned that if he did not leave the aircraft peaceably he would be removed by force, and still he basically forced them to do so. It's stupid to allow yourself to be dragged kicking and screaming off an aircraft when you could have just gotten off and been $1,000 richer.
RadishRose
SF VIP
- Location
- Connecticut, USA
I think he decided to gamble the quick easy money for the long term payoff he thinks he'll get in a lawsuit. Except for taking a stand (or a sit) on what he feels is unfair, I can see no other reason.
Knight
Well-known Member
Is it possible that there is another agenda in all of this?
Really is it a story about a man that refused to deplane or the ongoing possibility that overbooking will cease to be a fact that airlines now have as a business practice? Not much doubt the lawyer has prepped the family and the man really well about how to boost the pain & suffering. The more they can get the more he gets, it's the American way.
I'm not saying he wasn't injured or that he didn't have pain but the extent if presented right has dollar value in a lawsuit.
Meanwhile look at the extent of the coverage of one man that refused to deplane has gotten and the outrage over the airlines ability to over book flights. Two stories in one with what seems to me to be a condemnation of the airlines ability to over book as the real target.
Really is it a story about a man that refused to deplane or the ongoing possibility that overbooking will cease to be a fact that airlines now have as a business practice? Not much doubt the lawyer has prepped the family and the man really well about how to boost the pain & suffering. The more they can get the more he gets, it's the American way.
I'm not saying he wasn't injured or that he didn't have pain but the extent if presented right has dollar value in a lawsuit.
Meanwhile look at the extent of the coverage of one man that refused to deplane has gotten and the outrage over the airlines ability to over book flights. Two stories in one with what seems to me to be a condemnation of the airlines ability to over book as the real target.
This practice has been going on since the dark ages. It is unfortunate when it happens because it means that someone is going to be late getting to where they want to go. However, in reality, here we have a plane sitting in Louisville with no crew. If it's one of the smaller planes, like a B-737 that seats about 130-140 passengers and if it is booked full, why would an airline want 130-140 people to miss their flight when one person can make all the difference? United is short on help at the moment, but is trying to correct it by hiring and training more staff, but all that takes time and pilots are not easy to come by. Many new pilots coming into the industry are wanting to fly freight because it pays very well due to the size of the aircraft. Many of those freight carriers fly old DC 10's and B-747's. I was tempted to fly for FedEx years ago, but just couldn't see myself leaving United. I love to work with people. There is nothing like watching the smiling faces on the little kids that are taking their first plane ride. Heck, we even had an in-flight delivery one time years back. It was a little girl and thankfully, we did have a doctor on-board. What a thrill. I have always wondered what the birth certificate had on it as the place of birth.
I don't believe there is an easy solution. I really have trouble believing that someone, just one more person would pass up an $800.00 travel voucher that would take him or her and their partner to any destination in the continental U.S. for free and a very nice hotel room for the night and in this case since it was in Chicago, I would guess that it would be the airport Hilton. This is the hotel that United uses for their crews when staying overnight. I know the person would have to have the free time to be able to work it in, but just one more person?
dpwspringer
Member
- Location
- Georgia
You have to figure they asked for volunteers and didn't get one... even when it was apparent the "designated volunteer" wasn't going to go willingly. At that point the airline had a decision to make and they decided to go the rough way instead of sweeting the pot to try and get a willing volunteer where everyone left with a positive experience. There really isn't any way to get around that. The decision to be a bad azz about it was on them... IMO. Forcible removing a paying passenger who has been seated and done nothing wrong isn't going to play well. And refusing to accept being a "designated volunteer" as being doing something wrong is going to be a tough sell.
Rainee
Member
Sunny that is exactly what happened to my daughter and I, few years ago when we were flying to Dallas then to Pensacola.. for some reason the plane was over booked too and no flights till the morning so we had to stay in the air port lounge all night with no refreshments places open they were all closed down.. bit cold and
only our bottle of water .. we were not compensated at all and got a flight out the next morning 8 am to Fort Worth plane wasn`t going to Pensacola for some reason
so our friends had to drive from Pensacola to Fort Worth to pick us up . that was a daunting experience .. scary a bit as not many around in the airport over night just a policeman on one of those 2 wheel things that they ride around from concourse to concourse .. he was lovely and took us to a comfy lounge to sit while we wait but apologised there was no coffee or tea machines around that is what these airlines need .. that was our experience .. we had already come from Sydney to LA then another flight to Dallas so tired and all .. but amazing never slept a wink lol ..
Sorry to go off thread too but that was so sad for that fellow being taken off like that and after what a shady past he had it would have been better for him just to co-operate and collect some cash too and no body would know what his past was ... bet he was sorry he resisted like that should have just did what they wanted ..
only our bottle of water .. we were not compensated at all and got a flight out the next morning 8 am to Fort Worth plane wasn`t going to Pensacola for some reason
so our friends had to drive from Pensacola to Fort Worth to pick us up . that was a daunting experience .. scary a bit as not many around in the airport over night just a policeman on one of those 2 wheel things that they ride around from concourse to concourse .. he was lovely and took us to a comfy lounge to sit while we wait but apologised there was no coffee or tea machines around that is what these airlines need .. that was our experience .. we had already come from Sydney to LA then another flight to Dallas so tired and all .. but amazing never slept a wink lol ..
Sorry to go off thread too but that was so sad for that fellow being taken off like that and after what a shady past he had it would have been better for him just to co-operate and collect some cash too and no body would know what his past was ... bet he was sorry he resisted like that should have just did what they wanted ..
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Butterfly, he may just be a chronic curmudgeon or an egotist who is not in the habit of compromising or accommodating the needs of other people. And I think the fact that he is a doctor is irrelevant. He was not needed for an immediate medical emergency, he was just expected to see patients the next day. Well, big deal! A lot of the other passengers may have had equally (or greater) pressing reasons for not getting off that flight.
None of this, of course, excuses what United did. They acted like a bunch of goons in the Mafia, instead of like airline professionals. They should be sued.
None of this, of course, excuses what United did. They acted like a bunch of goons in the Mafia, instead of like airline professionals. They should be sued.
It wasn't even overbooking. All were seated and then for whatever reason they decided to fly one of their crews on that flight. Not one person on that plane would agree to voluntarily be bumped no matter what they offered. They wanted four seats and not one person agreed. So four were removed involuntarily. He stood up for his rights as a human being with a reservation and a seat number. I feel bad for his injuries. They basically sent thug cops in there who obviously like to brutalize people. This man was 69 and there is no possible excuse for this. If they can't treat their paying customers like human beings, they should be out of business. I know I would never fly on this airline no matter what.
Knight
Well-known Member
Quit a leap from following protocol of asking police to intervene to going the rough way. 3 out of 4 left. The 4th. decided obeying the police was not in his thinking mode.
Oldman can probably supply the incidence rate for overbooking and the amount of times this kind of incident escalated to the point it did. Overbooking not unusual this kind of incident NOT common IMO it is why all the attention.
For those flying what do you think will happen to airfares if government enacts a law to prevent overbooking?
Butterfly
SF VIP
- Location
- Albuquerque, New Mexico USA
Prices will go up, of course.
Butterfly
SF VIP
- Location
- Albuquerque, New Mexico USA
Does anybody know what happens if you have a ticket that lets you change to another flight without penalty and you fail to show up for the flight booked? Can you get your money back?
I am not exactly sure what you are asking, but in any case, airlines despise giving money back, although in some instances, if a passenger purchases the correct ticket class, refunds are given.
GeriGerry
New Member
Camper6
Well-known Member
- Location
- Northwestern Ontario Canada
Must be a lot of rich people on that flight to pass up $800.
AprilT
Well-known Member
- Location
- A galaxy far far away
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
Early in this thread I stated that passengers being bumped was unusual in Australia.
I was wrong. Hubby tells me that he was once asked to leave a plane after being seated and he caught a glimpse of the person taking his place. It was a well known politician.
This article reveals that the practice of overbooking is commonplace in Australia and outlines some examples of compensation.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-04-...what-rights-australia-united-airlines/8433170
I was wrong. Hubby tells me that he was once asked to leave a plane after being seated and he caught a glimpse of the person taking his place. It was a well known politician.
This article reveals that the practice of overbooking is commonplace in Australia and outlines some examples of compensation.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-04-...what-rights-australia-united-airlines/8433170
Butterfly
SF VIP
- Location
- Albuquerque, New Mexico USA
What I was wondering is that if the airline loses money on no-shows. Back when I used to fly stand-by a lot (military dependent), if a seat opened up it was usually because of a no-show. I never had to wait very long for a seat. That was back in the 70s, though and things have changed a lot, sadly. Flying was a fun experience then, instead of a headache like it is now.I know that's not the airlines' fault, but the fault of the state of the world now with terrorists and bombs, but the fun has pretty much gone out of it. Last time I flew, it was about as much fun as a root canal.
In view of the risk of Islamic terrorism and aircraft being prime targets IMO the actions taken were entirely appropriate. The overbooked story to him could quite possibly have been a way to get him off with least fuse.
He was requested to disembark. He refused. He was made to disembark and resisted. He was removed using reasonable force in that he was not shot on the spot which would not have been unreasonable given that he could have been carrying a device of some sort on a crowded aircraft.
He was requested to disembark. He refused. He was made to disembark and resisted. He was removed using reasonable force in that he was not shot on the spot which would not have been unreasonable given that he could have been carrying a device of some sort on a crowded aircraft.