Pedophilia is a sickness and if you don't have that you may not judge about it

[Messy]

We're speaking of evil and it has been around for thousands of years.
Anyone who takes away the innocence of children is a sick and evil person.
I don't know the answer except we need to guard our children as best we can. Teach them skills to fight and cope.

When my kids were small, 2/3 to 5 years old, I told them to never take candy from a stranger, but I also didn't want to give them a trauma, so that's all I said. Why? They're bozo's. Just don't do that. I guess it didn't sound like a severe warning cause then they played child lurer. The 5 year old happily: I'm the child lurer! To his toddler brother: Come here little one! I have candy!

 

[IrishEyes]

We're speaking of evil and it has been around for thousands of years.
Anyone who takes away the innocence of children is a sick and evil person.
I don't know the answer except we need to guard our children as best we can. Teach them skills to fight and cope.

Prevention is Always the best option. It's a hard subject to approach a child with for many.
But hearing it from a parent seems the most effective way to get a child to believe it.
Schools wait too long for a child to have the knowledge and method to know what to do.

I was in that era of the strong teaching of "Mind the Adult" and that is what guess I thought I had to do.
I did not know I could say no when my body was telling me "This is not right".

 

[Messy]

I can’t speak with authority about conditions two centuries ago, but in more recent times it’s hard to see the Church as an effective safeguard against child abuse. The widespread revelations that emerged in the 1980s and beyond made clear that serious harm had occurred, and the institutional response often compounded the problem. Rather than confronting the abuse directly, Church leadership frequently denied allegations or reassigned offending priests, which allowed the misconduct to continue out of public view. Whatever the situation may have been in earlier eras, today I wouldn’t consider the Church a reliable refuge in this regard.

This is from 2018.

https://nos.nl/op3/artikel/2246515-waarom-seksueel-misbruik-bijna-altijd-in-het-biechthokje-blijft

Why sexual abuse almost always stays in the confessional
Within a few months, multiple sexual abuse scandals within the Catholic Church have come to light. For instance, it emerged this week how 300 priests were able to abuse over a thousand American children for years. Clergy knew about it, but no one said anything.

This is partly due to the sacrament of confession: everything discussed or happening during confession must remain between the penitent and the priest. Even if abuse takes place there.

The Vatican established this in a secret document, the crimen sollicitationis, in 1962.

In the crimen sollicitationis, sexual abuse is described as an extremely pernicious sin. But if it happens, it must be resolved within the church. The church has its own legal code and legal system for this purpose.

The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, a high court of the church, then determines what punishment a priest receives for the abuse. The church judges sexual violence very differently than a secular court does. A priest can receive forgiveness by praying or by showing lifelong repentance to God.

Priests, for example, have sex or have a partner in secret.

Vatican expert Stijn Fens

Every cleric involved in this process must remain silent forever. A cleric may not report a colleague to the police if that colleague has abused someone. If the cleric does so, *he* is expelled from the church, *not* the person being accused. If you violate this rule, only the Pope can forgive you.

Confession remains sacred
The sanctity of confession will not change anytime soon, thinks Vatican expert Stijn Fens. "Politicians in Australia (where it recently became known that an archbishop concealed that a priest had committed abuse) also said: let the church lift that secrecy of confession when it concerns grave sins. But the church is not going to do that."

Furthermore, secrecy is ingrained in the culture, and you don't change that just like that. Church historian Peter Nissen says that a large percentage of all priests do not adhere to celibacy. "Priests, for example, have sex or have a partner in secret. When they see that their colleagues are committing abuse, they cannot say anything about it, because they themselves are vulnerable to blackmail."

At the same time, Fens observes that there is more transparency within the church. Most cases coming to light now date back years.

 

[hearlady]

When my kids were small, 2/3 to 5 years old, I told them to never take candy from a stranger, but I also didn't want to give them a trauma, so that's all I said. Why? They're bozo's. Just don't do that. I guess it didn't sound like a severe warning cause then they played child lurer. The 5 year old happily: I'm the child lurer! To his toddler brother: Come here little one! I have candy!

Yup. Happy children playing. They do know there are child lurers though and that's good. Kids need a healthy fear of strangers.

 

[Messy]

Yup. Happy children playing. They do know there are child lurers though and that's good. Kids need a healthy fear of strangers.

Yes. My parents warned me too. In the 70s I could just walk to school alone at 6 years old. Once a woman asked me to go with her cause she had candy. I said no and walked home. My ex as a small kid met one in a swimming pool, also a woman. He also got warned. Nothing happened.

But when my son was 7 and went to an old grandma, a few houses away from my ex, for fysiotherapy and I was at work and he couldn't join, he called her that he couldn't come. Let him come alone! Nope. He's old enough. He has to come alone!! No way. She was offended to the bone and I had to find another one. We were maybe too extreme, but nothing ever happened.

 

[MACKTEXAS]

Following psychological and psychiatric examination, it appears that the resident of The Hague suffers from, among other things, an autism spectrum disorder and a pedophilic disorder. As a result, he is barely able to resist his urges. Without treatment, the risk of recurrence is assessed as high. The experts therefore recommended TBS (Treatment Order for Mentally Ill Offenders) with compulsory hospitalization. The court adopted this recommendation.

The medical community classifies alcoholism as a chronic, relapsing brain disease, characterized by an inability to control or stop drinking, but the legal system treats driving under the influence as a crime -not an uncontrollable symptom of a disease. When the alcoholic is intoxicated and gets behind the wheel of a car, and kills someone, he is not simply sent for treatment, or a rehab program - he will pay for his act as a criminal offense.

 

[hollydolly]

I will argue a point about this.... and it covers may forms of abusive personalities.... Many have grown up witnessing some kind of abuse and they accept it as normal so there is nothing wrong. The can gets kicked down the road.
I know of an 18 YO that hooked up with a 13 YO.... Married 78 years before Great Grandpa died.

there used to be a member of this forum... she was an American from Texas .. and she was married off at 13 to her Husband who was much older than her... and she had children by him...

She's no longer with us, she died in her 60's ... R.I.P our friend @Ina

 

[Rich]

Why sexual abuse almost always stays in the confessional
Furthermore, secrecy is ingrained in the culture, and you don't change that just like that. Church historian Peter Nissen says that a large percentage of all priests do not adhere to celibacy. "Priests, for example, have sex or have a partner in secret. When they see that their colleagues are committing abuse, they cannot say anything about it, because they themselves are vulnerable to blackmail."

So, it's worse than I thought, it's known to exist, and it's systemically silenced. I stand by my comment that "today I wouldn’t consider the Church a reliable refuge in this regard". It sounds like they are an organized and dedicated to covering up this crime.

 

[hollydolly]

So, it's worse than I thought, it's known to exist, and it's systemically silenced. I stand by my comment that "today I wouldn’t consider the Church a reliable refuge in this regard". It sounds like they are an organized and dedicated to covering up this crime.

it's almost continually in our media.. barely a week goes by but some priest or religious person is arrested for crimes against kids... it's just sickening !

 

[Rich]

it's almost continually in our media.. barely a week goes by but some priest or religious person is arrested for crimes against kids... it's just sickening !

Agreed, it's almost been normalized.

 

[AutumnGal]

I know many a good Catholic BUT I think what that church does creates an atmosphere and very possible situation and attracts the wrong types for sure. But then child molestors like positions like that or at schools or day cares or driving buses, etc. Positions of authority over children or contact with children also for sure.

They require a priest stay celibate. Well.... There's a subject all in and of itself... Is molestation considered celibacy... So long as it isn't a female... Not in my mind.

 

[AutumnGal]

Agreed, it's almost been normalized.

They tried or were trying to be part of the LTQ etc. Not sure who was behind it but it WAS going on big time.

I'm not knocking any of the others but pedophiles NO!! Normalized?? NO!!

 

[Sunkist]

there used to be a member of this forum... she was an American from Texas .. and she was married off at 13 to her Husband who was much older than her... and she had children by him...

She's no longer with us, she died in her 60's ... R.I.P our friend @Ina

I "met" Ina on a different forum many years ago. She was a dear person who'd had a hard life.

 

[Sunkist]

I will argue a point about this.... and it covers may forms of abusive personalities.... Many have grown up witnessing some kind of abuse and they accept it as normal so there is nothing wrong. The can gets kicked down the road.
I know of an 18 YO that hooked up with a 13 YO.... Married 78 years before Great Grandpa died.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'hooked up,' or if that and the last part of your post is connected to the first part, but there were 3 couples in my own family 'tree' that got married when one member of each couple was a minor.. similar to everybody I knew in the past (haven't known anyone more recently), couples got married because they loved each other and wanted to build lives together.

Recently I saw a 'pin' on the Pinterest site that said 'the only reason somebody would marry a minor is 'so they could get away with RAPING a CHILD!' People are really going off-the-rails with this stuff, and it's insulting and sickening.
Not only are people OBSESSED with 'sex,' it's usually 'perverted.'

On a side note, of the 3 couples I mentioned, the minors were the husbands! One couple got married when the guy was 16 and his wife was 28. Times were different because education wasn't important, priorities for most people were working and having/raising families. There wasn't anything 'perverted' or 'abusive' about them or their situations.

 

[hollydolly]

I "met" Ina on a different forum many years ago. She was a dear person who'd had a hard life.

she definitely did.. you're correct there..
Ina shortly before she left us....

I knew her from way back about 12 years ago or more ... she became a very close friend of @Happyflowerlady

 

[oldman]

I know that... that's what is the most annoying part...

.... because in essence they have killed these children .. they've killed the childhood innocence, the future mental peace, and that's without taking into consideration any physical injuries they may have inflicted...

Every now and then, I read about a father killing a pedophile that raped his young daughter. When I lived in the Washington, D.C. area, we had it happen twice and ironically, both killings happened in the same week and the pedophiles were brothers. That happened back about 1980, maybe a little earlier. The one dad got off with a not guilty verdict and the other father took a plea deal of voluntary manslaughter and served only three or four years.

 

[gruntlabor]

Yes, guilt must be established beyond any doubt. Also children must be guarded and protected by adults who watch over them.

Who will watch over the watchers? Remember they are entrenched in their trusted positions.

 

[IrishEyes]

Who will watch over the watchers? Remember they are entrenched in their trusted positions.

That's for sure 2 of my watchers turned out to be demons

 

[Messy]

So, it's worse than I thought, it's known to exist, and it's systemically silenced. I stand by my comment that "today I wouldn’t consider the Church a reliable refuge in this regard". It sounds like they are an organized and dedicated to covering up this crime.

Yes. They are just like our Dutch government and judges. AI said that's not because of the church, but I'm not sure.

In Pennsylvania, bishops primarily expressed sympathy for perpetrators of sexual violence, not for the victims. For instance, on October 9, 1986, Bishop James Timlin of Scranton wrote to Father Thomas Skotek, who had raped, impregnated, and assisted a girl in obtaining an abortion: "It is with sadness and great regret that I accept your resignation as pastor of St. Stanislas Church in Hazleton. (…) This is a very difficult time in your life, and I understand that you are upset by it. (….) With God's help, this too shall pass, and everyone will be able to resume their lives. Be assured that I am willing to do everything to help you." After his resignation, the priest was sent to a Catholic psychiatric institution. A year later, in 1987, he received an appointment in another parish.

 

[gruntlabor]

We can only guess, right? I'm guessing no.

200 years ago (in the US), people were closer to God, practiced their faith, went to church every Sunday, husbands and wives had traditional roles, and children were treasured. After all, it wasn't uncommon to lose a third to half of them to common illnesses, and your children helped around the farm and took over the family business. And 100 years ago, more and more parents sent their kids to college so they'd have an easier life than their parents did.

In those 2 centuries, 2 of the most notorious pedophiles in America's history were arrested. Whenever they were transported from jail to courthouse and back, they had to be kept under constant police protection because droves of people wanted to kill them. Their crimes genuinely shocked and enraged people, so I don't think pedophilia was common at all back then.

I read in a book about crime in 1800s London that it was not uncommon to see a four-year-old staggering home, her panties in one hand and a penny in the other. (tears)

 

[Murrmurr]

I can’t speak with authority about conditions two centuries ago, but in more recent times it’s hard to see the Church as an effective safeguard against child abuse. The widespread revelations that emerged in the 1980s and beyond made clear that serious harm had occurred, and the institutional response often compounded the problem. Rather than confronting the abuse directly, Church leadership frequently denied allegations or reassigned offending priests, which allowed the misconduct to continue out of public view. Whatever the situation may have been in earlier eras, today I wouldn’t consider the Church a reliable refuge in this regard.

I wasn't there a century and more ago, but I think churches were primarily considered a place to gather for worship rather than places of refuge. And again, I'm speaking particularly of the US.

My point was that families and communities were more cohesive back then. Today, some of us don't care to know our own neighbors, let alone the entire community we live in.


A side note: I'm certain Protestantism was the dominant religion back then. Protestantism and Catholicism are probly about neck and neck today, and both declining.

 

[Murrmurr]

I read in a book about crime in 1800s London that it was not uncommon to see a four-year-old staggering home, her panties in one hand and a penny in the other. (tears)

London was rough in the 1800s. England's Industrial Revolution was probably their worst period ever. There were no safety nets for people who were struggling, aside from "work-houses," many of which were corrupt.

But if I remember my history correctly, it was that horribleness that prompted the creation of social programs, and also mandatory education for children...up to like 3rd or 4th grade, I think.

 

[gruntlabor]

That's not a cure, it's a remedy.

It's a cure and a remedy, and a sure fix too.

 

[Messy]

So, it's worse than I thought, it's known to exist, and it's systemically silenced. I stand by my comment that "today I wouldn’t consider the Church a reliable refuge in this regard". It sounds like they are an organized and dedicated to covering up this crime.

I was Googling and found this:


'We're going to kill you': Church abuse survivors speak out about intimidation


Church paedophile rings to be mapped 'like organised crime' by academics

A "mafia-like" code of silence among "dark networks" within the Catholic Church has begun to emerge from a world-first project mapping clerical paedophile networks, says an academic behind the project.

 

[gruntlabor]

Yup. Happy children playing. They do know there are child lurers though and that's good. Kids need a healthy fear of strangers.

Make a game of it. Tell the child, "IF any stranger is coming toward you, and you think he might touch you, THEN, QUICK! TURN AROUND AND RUN AWAY as fast as you can. Now, let's practice. Oops, here comes a stranger."