Race/Racism discussion

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AprilT said:
Sigh, some people just don't get it and never will as I don't know what this black culture is you are referring to because obviously, I and so many others I no are a part of it as you and so many of your mindset are determined to believe represents all people of a particular skin pigment. But that's OK, I live and enjoy a life among the vast open minded people in America who don't lock people under a blanket way of being nor thinking.

I'm not here to change the minds of people who are set in their thoughts about people who are different in some way they see. Some of us out here won't see the history that set forth certain events that result in why some things are as they are for people.

Communities fighting for certain needs have nothing to do with culture. People can keep changing the bar as to what separates and causes them to alienate themselves finding reason to want to nitpick, that's okay, we all must choose our path of destruction, negativity to give us reason for whatever warped thoughts we may have. The black communities are easy targets to pick, I get it, but there are many communities who fight for their right to exist with the full rights of everyone else. Italian-American, Irish-America, Asian-American and many other community leaders exist in this country, but, yes, the ones most easy to spot and separate will always be disdained by those who see race. Ignorance of the reasons behind it all isn't an excuse to hold on to the feelings to keep pointing a finger at people acting as if all things are just and equal in the treatment of the people.

Leaders in a community defending the rights of a people hasn't a thing to do with causing alienation that I know of. Those mistreating people bare that responsibility, those denying the existence of a problem and continuing to stick their heads in the ground because they they can't face a problem are what keeps them from uniting for the greater good of all people. Either you are all my people black white or other or you're not; it's up to the individual how they want to see it. If one wants to see black people as something else, that's that person's choice to keep harping on it and finding reasons to do so.
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Sigh - the reference to the black culture was the same as the reference others made to other cultures. None is specifically about pigmentation.

Leaders of a community basing their appeal on victimology does nothing for the people in that community except condemn them to permanent negativity and dependency.
 

ray188 said:
Sigh - the reference to the black culture was the same as the reference others made to other cultures. None is specifically about pigmentation.

Leaders of a community basing their appeal on victimology does nothing for the people in that community except condemn them to permanent negativity and dependency.
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I can see you believe that and that's okay for you to do so.
 
If you can forgive or overlook the 'hippy-dippy' tone of the song, it does sum up where I've always been 'at' on the subject- racism and other bigotry is flat-out nonsense, and has never made any sense to me. I did not grow up with it, and with only one exception never encountered it til I was around 42 yrs old even though I'd lived on both coasts and different areas on both.
The one exception: when I was 16 (making it around 1973), a girl I'd become pen-pals with made a below-gutter-level remark about black guys who go out with white girls. Connected, though, my mother had had a run-in with the girl's father- although I have little good to say about my mother, her outspokenness when up against something wrong was refreshing, and even more so when looking back. The guy was running down all races other than his own, started in on nationalities, etc., and she piped up with 'WHAT THE HELL'S THE MATTER WITH YOU, WEREN'T YOU RAISED TO KNOW ANYTHING?!"
And that's where I stand: I cannot for anything understand how or why any person would dislike, not want to live around, not want to associate with, etc. etc. fellow human beings simply because their race or national origin is 'different' from one's own. But if, as I've read a few times, 'everyone' is like that, I'm wondering where all those 'everybodies' have been throughout my life, because it doesn't describe the people I knew in the past.
 
:rolleyes:

"Oh, I'm not prejudiced or anything... It's just that black people have their own culture and I don't know anything about black culture and I don't know how to learn about black culture" etc. etc. etc. yada yada yada :blah:

:beatdeadhorse:
 
applecruncher said:
:rolleyes:

"Oh, I'm not prejudiced or anything... It's just that black people have their own culture and I don't know anything about black culture and I don't know how to learn about black culture" etc. etc. etc. yada yada yada :blah:

:beatdeadhorse:
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Or another dopey one: "I don't have anything against Black people- I've even had one in my own home!"
Kinda makes you want to smack somebody, doesn't it.
 
Small cultures are assimilated into the larger culture. And to be assimilated into the larger culture they must give up some of their ethnicity. There is a person, who just happens to paint his face red. There is a tribe of 15, who paint their faces blue. The red person would like the protection and benefits of being with a larger group. But in order to join the Blue tribe he must paint his face blue, when they go hunting. Otherwise he can wear red paint He can choose to be alone with his face painted red all the time, or paint his face blue, when they go hunting and join the tribe.
Assimilation is a negotiation to be member of the larger group, and still a member of the smaller group. Neither group is "good" nor "bad".
To dismiss 300 years of slavery, the Civil War, Civil Rights legislation, and who owned who, as mere baggage and trivial. I'm sorry. I assumed you lived in the United States, and knew its current history.
And as stated previously, I am not an advocate of racism
 
[h=1]White fragility is real: 4 questions white people should ask themselves during discussions about race[/h][h=2]Are you a “fragile” white person? Here’s how to tell—and what to do about it[/h]White fragility is a phrase coined by author Dr. Robin DiAngelo, and is defined as “a state in which even a minimum amount of racial stress becomes intolerable, triggering a range of defensive moves.” According to DiAngelo, most white people “live in a social environment that insulates them from race-based stress,” due to their privilege as part of the cultural majority. In turn, says DiAngelo, whites are infrequently challenged and have less of a tolerance to race-based stress, causing them to be hostile, guilty, defensive, or fearful when confronted. This phenomenon is white fragility. In the end, white fragility ensures that conversations about race are derailed, and the status quo of white supremacy is upheld.

(full article)
​https://www.salon.com/2016/07/18/wh...ask_themselves_during_discussions_about_race/
 
applecruncher said:
Another one:
"We're not racist; we go to church. We couldn't be Christians if we were prejudiced."

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Makes me want to vomit.
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Me too, but did anyone really say that with a straight face?
If someone did, then I cannot imagine them sitting in church during the general confession
without some degree of awareness of their own failures in this area.
 
Warrigal said:
Me too, but did anyone really say that with a straight face?
If someone did, then I cannot imagine them sitting in church during the general confession
without some degree of awareness of their own failures in this area.
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Oh yes, I personally have heard people say those exact words.

And, there's an excellent movie about apartheid in South Africa "A Dry White Season" (1989). It shows white families walking out of a church and they are as racist as the day is long.
 
Warrigal said:
Me too, but did anyone really say that with a straight face?
If someone did, then I cannot imagine them sitting in church during the general confession
without some degree of awareness of their own failures in this area.
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Yes unfortunately there are individuals who believe racist viewpoints/attitudes and 'being a good christian' are compatible.
Long ago I even heard remarks similar to 'we're not racist, we go to church, we couldn't be christians if we were prejudiced' AND added 'but of course I wouldn't want my son or daughter to marry "one of them".'
and that was long before I ever heard of something that's been going around awhile and seems to be increasing- the 'The Bible Says' approach:
https://mycommentary.weebly.com/take-it-from-the-source--2.html
After I heard this the last time I went around the www and was stunned to see how many people actually believe that idiot judge's remarks came from 'the bible.'
 
applecruncher said:
Oh yes, I personally have heard people say those exact words.

And, there's an excellent movie about apartheid in South Africa "A Dry White Season" (1989). It shows white families walking out of a church and they are as racist as the day is long.
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Amazing. My Sunday school lesson yesterday was on the subject of hypocrisy. I can only surmise that some people who are able to quote chapter and verse from the Scriptures have totally failed to hear the message within them.

I am aware that apartheid had its roots in the experience of the Voortrekker Boers who won a battle with Zulus at Blood River in 1838. They considered the victory a sign that God was on their side and was giving them the land.

https://www.britannica.com/event/Battle-of-Blood-River

That was in 1838.
There is no excuse in this day and age for such thinking.
The New Testament and the teaching of Jesus makes it very clear that such thinking a worse sin than venality.
 
Warrigal said:
Amazing. My Sunday school lesson yesterday was on the subject of hypocrisy. I can only surmise that some people who are able to quote chapter and verse from the Scriptures have totally failed to hear the message within them.

I am aware that apartheid had its roots in the experience of the Voortrekker Boers who won a battle with Zulus at Blood River in 1838. They considered the victory a sign that God was on their side and was giving them the land.

https://www.britannica.com/event/Battle-of-Blood-River

That was in 1838.
There is no excuse in this day and age for such thinking.
The New Testament and the teaching of Jesus makes it very clear that such thinking a worse sin than venality.
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Well, some doozies I've encountered- and always did some checking just to make sure it wasn't simply the belief of any one individual- Fundamentalists who called themselves Christians:
1. Believe it was actually Jesus Christ who created the world.
2. and with that in mind, the belief that they have the God-given (or Christ-given) right and authority to take over the world (a different take on the quote, I think in Genesis, about man having dominion over everything- but not 'all' man/mankind, only themselves as they believe only they are 'true christians').
3. When presented with the logical question of how they can engage in proof-texting, as the Bible was written over many centuries, by various people, AND in a variety of languages, the response was that the Holy Spirit TELLS them how to 'interpret' Scripture. (Kinda put me in mind of Charles Manson & "Helter Skelter.")

I couldn't get an answer, though, to the question: if Jesus Christ created the world, how is this belief compatible with the NT descriptions of Jesus's birth.
 
No offense JaniceM (you've contributed lots of insightful posts) but I don't want to invite a bunch of nuts who use the Bible and Jesus and a religious debate to justify their racist thoughts and behavior.

Anyone coming in here tossing Bible verses around will feel my size 9 shoe and get promptly sent to the ignore pit. :mad:
 
applecruncher said:
No offense JaniceM (you've contributed lots of insightful posts) but I don't want to invite a bunch of nuts who use the Bible and Jesus and a religious debate to justify their racist thoughts and behavior.

Anyone coming in here tossing Bible verses will feel my size 9 shoe and get promptly sent to the ignore pit. :mad:
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Sorry, didn't intend it that way, just meant to show an additional reason prejudicial attitudes are worsening.
 
Strange that they had no answer. I would have expected them to quote from John Ch 1 which begins with the words

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [SUP]2 [/SUP]He was with God in the beginning. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. [SUP]4 [/SUP]In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. [SUP]5 [/SUP]The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[SUP][a][/SUP] it.
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It is generally considered to refer to Jesus who is given the title "Living Word of God". Fundamentalists don't like this title because they hold that it is the bible that is the "inerrant, infallible word of God" to justify their literal approach to scripture. Of course Jesus has been given many titles including Lamb of God, Bread of Life and Living Water. None of this justifies the thinking that any particular group is especially favoured by God, more righteous or the only holders of truth.

IMO, biblical fundamentalists tend to gloss over the NT but use every archaic verse in the OT to justify their narrow thinking, including racism and judgmentalism.
 
applecruncher said:
No offense JaniceM (you've contributed lots of insightful posts) but I don't want to invite a bunch of nuts who use the Bible and Jesus and a religious debate to justify their racist thoughts and behavior.

Anyone coming in here tossing Bible verses around will feel my size 9 shoe and get promptly sent to the ignore pit. :mad:
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Sorry AC.
I hope my posts haven't offended you in any way.
I will now exit stage left.
 
Crabs in a barrel

A syndrome where a group of like situated people hurt those in their community attempting to get ahead.

Often this is applied to people in an impoverished community where one person is starting to get ahead. The collective community becomes jealous or filled with a sense of self-loathing, so they find a way to pull that person back down to the community's level.

When harvesting crab, the crab as a group will pull down any crab that starts to climb out of the barrel in an attempt to be the first out of the barrel that holds them in, hence crabs-in-a-barrel.

This is something that happens within a black group of people that's not talked about much. It often happens in junior high or high school. The crabs (male and especially female) are bullies and often successful at intimidating a weaker youngster who:

- is a good student, gets good grades
- is attractive, wears nice clothes
- has a stable family life
- is often popular and well liked, often has several white friends

It's a special form of jealousy. The crabs resent their miserable lives. Instead of trying to be nice, study harder, and eventually improve their lives they focus on trying to hold someone else back.
 
In Australia we call it the tall poppy syndrome.

An example I remember well was when a junior high school girl was called out at a before school assembly. She had just qualified to play in a state level sporting team. As she was walking forward for a well earned pat on the back I heard some girls calling her "poser" sotto voce as she passed them. Jealous witches!
 
ray188 said:
It is interesting to see a post regarding looking in rather than out when dealing with problems as in the "crab" story. Here is something along the same lines. Not that problems do not come from outside, some do - but not all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faolY5_hnIc
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I found #2 "Proliferation of Baby Mommas" to be VERY interesting.
I'm in bed on my phone and not at my computer right now so I can't type much, but I agree - Moynihan was RIGHT and he was villified by so-called black "leaders".
 
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