Race/Racism discussion

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I grew up in Pinellas County Florida in the 1950's and 60's. Everything was segregated back then. Separate schools, separate neighborhoods, separate drinking fountains, separate rest rooms separate everything. And the separate stuff for the black people was way inferior to that of the whites. The black schools were run down dumps. The black drinking fountains had warm water. The gas stations would usually have three rest rooms. Men, Women, and Colored. We white people had access to the beautiful white sand Gulf beaches. The only black beach was this shitty one on Tampa bay that had a mud bottom and stunk to high heaven at low tide. I could go on and on, but basically it sucked to be black in Pinellas County back then. Looking back on it, I don't know how black people got through that. I figure that if I had been born black instead of white I would be either dead or in prison now. Most likely dead.

The first time I ever went to school with a black person was in junior college. And then it was like one or of white out of a couple of thousand. A lot of my friends growing up were racists. They weren't rabid dog racists but they were racist none the less. And I was pretty much a self centered asshole who went along to get along. To try to fit in with them I had a confederate flag license plate on the front of my car. We used the word ****** all the time. If you were in the mood to be nice you used "colored people". I wasn't Klu Klux Klan racist so I rationalized that to mean I was one of the good white people. I looked down on the "Crackers" too, but I accepted and was comfortable with the institutionalized racism that prevailed. So I stop trying to sugar coat it and own up to having been racist myself.

I'd like to think I've outgrown that shit now, but I'm not perfect. I always lock my car wherever I park, but if I am in a black neighborhood I am more deliberate about it. And I get pretty pissed if I get stuck at a traffic light next to a black guy that is playing loud rap music. In my mind I try to call him an asshole but sometimes the word ****** slips into my consciousness.
 

That's refreshingly honest Trade. I think a lot of us grew up thinking it was OK to tell insensitive jokes or call names but as we grow older and wiser we try to be better people.
 
@Trade

I liked your post. Tell it like it is, put it out there. No pussyfooting around with excuses and justification. BAM! btw, I hate rap music and I have fits when a car in traffic or a parking lot plays that crap so loud it almost shatters the eardrums. :mad: I hear some places have fines.

I've seen some race discussions where very quickly some people start in with the "What about OJ?" or "What about blacks rioting and looting?" or "What about blacks on welfare?" comments. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

NEXT: I'm going to talk about interracial relationships/marriages (Yep, I'm gonna go there)

But for now real life summons me. Meanwhile, if anyone wants to get the ball rolling, feel free.
 

I have mentioned my experience with what I considered racism in the past, that I took offence to ...

Im Australian born as was my parents, I’ve never had a DNA done but I believe our ancestors were Cornish/Irish .

My daughter married a young man from Vietnam ,in 1992 and had two daughters to him ,one weekend I was babysitting the girls who would have been about 4 and 6 years old at the time ....we were happily walking down the footpath to go riding on a nearby bicycle track ,when I neighbour came out of his house and told us in an aggressive manner NOT walk on his side of the street ,..he said he didn’t want those “slope looking kids” walking on his side of the street ...I was disgusted at grown adult
treating little children that way
 
Before I get to the interracial relationship issue, something I meant to mention when I replied to Trade.

Never having visited the deep south, I never actually saw the "white only" signs on drinking fountains and restrooms.

But when I was a kid in the 1950s I was a voracious reader. I used to read the local newspaper and also the big Sunday paper which was published in Columbus, the capital of Ohio. Of course I read the "funnies"/comics (Apt. 3-G, Mary Worth, Rex Morgan MD, Blondie), but I also read the classifieds. In the Help Wanted and also For Rent sections I can vividly remember ads that said "White Only" and "No coloreds" and also "No Japs or Jews".

I don't recall exactly when that crap stopped, but IIRC it was in the late 1960s.
 
Back in the 50s, Seventeen magazine was practically required reading for teen/preteen girls. I remember reading a short story about a girl and her daily life, giggling with friends over cute boys, what to wear and where to shop, homework, parents and other family members, and the really big deal: Prom. Trying on dresses, practicing the newest dances, makeup, hair, just the whole thing.

It was just an ordinary story about an ordinary girl, and I kept waiting for the point of it. The point was in the last sentence. "I am a *****." ***** because in the 50s, it wasn't "black" or "African American."

Can you even imagine how courageous and controversial it was of Seventeen to print that story back then? My friends were surprised at the ending. It was an aha! moment for all of us because we lived so far north in a place so isolated and so cold that nobody moved there on purpose so most of us had never had a black friend or even seen anybody who didn't look just like us. But it did bring up a discussion of people who weren't just like us, and those were the native American kids. They weren't kids we'd ever interacted with at all because they lived on the reservation, and at that time they were still sent to government-sponsored boarding schools. Away from family. With white teachers.
 
I said I'm over my head with this discussion , and won't post any more... but I just have to say that despite the boarding houses with their No irish, No blacks, signs way back in the day (which was clearly personal prejudices) ...the one thing we never had was segregation of people at cafe's, bars, public toilets , drinking fountains or public places etc... that's diabolical....

Can I just say...this discussion has been mainly about Racism towards Blacks and asians, understandable because in the USA you all have much more knowledge of that subject.....but of course we surely don't have to be reminded about the horrendous racism that went on towards jewish people... all over Europe as well as the Americas...

I've read so much about it... and how it came about...and I still do not understand it. Amazingly this racism is still rife today..and according to the media rising even more again in the UK..and other countries... why?..why?...does anyone have any definitive answers..


Sorry I'll bow out again... but I'm reading with interest...just thought I'd bring up the jewish problem for your views..
 
GeorgiaXplant - I loved Seventeen magazine, but what are the two words filtered out in your post? Is there some way you can say what they are, maybe phonetically? Or maybe someone else can tell me, I can't figure it out.
 
GeorgiaXplant said:
Back in the 50s, Seventeen magazine was practically required reading for teen/preteen girls. I remember reading a short story about a girl and her daily life, giggling with friends over cute boys, what to wear and where to shop, homework, parents and other family members, and the really big deal: Prom. Trying on dresses, practicing the newest dances, makeup, hair, just the whole thing.

It was just an ordinary story about an ordinary girl, and I kept waiting for the point of it. The point was in the last sentence. "I am a *****." ***** because in the 50s, it wasn't "black" or "African American."

Can you even imagine how courageous and controversial it was of Seventeen to print that story back then? My friends were surprised at the ending. It was an aha! moment for all of us because we lived so far north in a place so isolated and so cold that nobody moved there on purpose so most of us had never had a black friend or even seen anybody who didn't look just like us. But it did bring up a discussion of people who weren't just like us, and those were the native American kids. They weren't kids we'd ever interacted with at all because they lived on the reservation, and at that time they were still sent to government-sponsored boarding schools. Away from family. With white teachers.
Click to expand...


Here in Canada we still have First Nations people suffering from the traumatic effects of residential schools. Among the many ills, paedophilia was rampant, as were beatings etc. Racism? You bet, kids forceably taken from their parents on the Rez, not allowed to speak their indigenous language! Shamed and ridiculed. The United Chirch has apologised twice for their part in this tragedy. In many ways, aboriginal people are still denied parity with

the rest of Canucks. It is our national shame that for so long we allowed them to be invisible. It is getting better, but we have a long way to go. Too many lack safe water, decent housing, or adequate education. In the far north, medical care is spotty. Our Inuit suffer from TB. Appalling. We are not a third world country, are we?
 
applecruncher said:
Before I get to the interracial relationship issue, something I meant to mention when I replied to Trade.

Never having visited the deep south, I never actually saw the "white only" signs on drinking fountains and restrooms.

But when I was a kid in the 1950s I was a voracious reader. I used to read the local newspaper and also the big Sunday paper which was published in Columbus, the capital of Ohio. Of course I read the "funnies"/comics (Apt. 3-G, Mary Worth, Rex Morgan MD, Blondie), but I also read the classifieds. In the Help Wanted and also For Rent sections I can vividly remember ads that said "White Only" and "No coloreds" and also "No Japs or Jews".

I don't recall exactly when that crap stopped, but IIRC it was in the late 1960s.
Click to expand...

I grew up in northern Ohio, near lake Erie, and race was not a problem here. No special rest rooms, my grand mother rented rooms to students and she did have blacks included. As far as I knew there was no racism in the US.

But not far south, in Cincinnati at a bus stop I found 'colored' restrooms. Later on while in the Army and stationed in Virginia I was on a bus and sitting down about half way back I saw a lot of blacks standing while seats around me were empty. I guess there was some sort of rule about no blacks could sit ahead of a white person. I was slowly learning about race separation. I stopped in a motel in Alabama or Georgia one time, and asked for a room. I was refused as I was 'white' and this was a 'black' neighbor hood.

So glad times have changed and things are much smoother now. Still have some problems in major cities.

I did not know about race problems as a kid. Found out while in the Army and moving in southern cities and states in the 1950's. I was in Ft Knox KY, Ft Gordon GA, and Ft Monroe VA.
 
This is a great discussion. I've enjoyed reading it.

About the question of why the N word is supposedly all right when used by black people but not by anyone else, here's a guess on my part: Maybe it's a way of disempowering the word. If it's used jokingly, commonly, all the time, including by the people it refers to, maybe it loses its capacity to hurt? (Probably not, but that may be the thinking behind it.)
 
I grew up in one of the super white Mass. towns. There was a Black girl in my class for a couple of weeks, but I never saw a N***o until I went into the Navy. There was a Black guy, who saw me looking at him. He showed that the 'color' didn't wash off, and he let me feel his hair. It was soft. I've always been a Liberal Democrat, fighting for Black equality. But only a few months ago, I passed a car filled with Blacks in the parking lot of a mall. They were playing super loud music. Teenagers. I thought " damned N*****". Sadly, it's in me.
 
(DiSCLAIMER: I'm trying very hard say "some", "most", "many" when I refer to whites, blacks, or any ethnic group. I know there are any exceptions. If I neglect to say that it's a mistake on my part. I only speak for one person - myself. There is only one person whose true innermost feelings I'm privy to - mine.)



"Interracial marriage in the United States has been fully legal in all U.S. states since the 1967 Supreme Court decision that deemed anti-miscegenation laws unconstitutional, with many states choosing to legalize interracial marriage at much earlier dates. Anti-miscegenation laws have played a large role in defining racial identity and enforcing the racial hierarchy. The United States has many ethnic and racial groups, and interracial marriage is fairly common among most of them. Interracial marriages increased from 2% of married couples in 1970 to 7% in 2005[1][2] and 8.4% in 2010.[3]

According to a Pew Research Center analysis of census data conducted in 2013, 12% of newlyweds married someone of a different race. (This share does not take into account the “interethnic” marriages between Hispanics and non-Hispanics).[4] And, most Americans say they approve of racial or ethnic intermarriage – not just in the abstract, but in their own families. More than six-in-ten say it would be fine with them if a family member told them they were going to marry someone from any of three major race/ethnic groups other than their own."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracial_marriage#Legality


So, why is it that some people have in the past and still do get upset about interracial dating/marriages?

- "If they have children the kids won't know what they are. I'm just worried about the children."
- "The Bible says.......(whatever)"

^^What.a.crock.of.sh@t. :rolleyes:

There is only one reason a person is bothered about someone else's interracial relationship: because they feel one race is superior to the other.

If other people decide to date/marry someone from another race it's nobody else's business. The kids will be fine. If you're against interracial marriage, fine.......then don't date/marry outside your own race. And don't give me that Bible nonsense. Some of the biggest hypocrites I know sit in church every week and use the Bible to try to justify their behavior.

There are several interracial marriages in my family. Most involve black male and a female of another race. A few involve black female and a male of another race. Most have been married a long time. They have children, and they are doing well. They don't need anyone to feel sorry for them or help them figure out "what they are".

While I'm on a roll, it's not true that all black women resent it when a black man is with a white woman. Some do. But most could not care less. To take it a step further, when I saw/see a white woman with a thuggy, unkept, black guy who won't work I think "better her than me". If some women (regardless of race) are so desperate to get a man they feel they have to settle for some guy who just wants to lay around, make babies, and doesn't and never will have a pot to piss in, well, good luck with that. Many black women agree with me. Not all, but many.

OTOH, I know a lot of good black men who are successful, hard workers, nice guys to one degree or another. Most are with black women, some are with women of other races. I have dated black, white, Indian, and Hispanic men in my lifetime. While some black women that I know have dated men of different races, most tend to date within their race.
 
- "If they have children the kids won't know what they are. I'm just worried about the children."
- "The Bible says.......(whatever)"
Click to expand...

I have heard both of these phrases before, the first from my mother when I came home (from Virginia while in the Army) on leave, and made mention of my black girlfriend.

The second phrase heard years later(late 90s) while in SC in an entertainment venue with former fiancé . An employee there uttered the
"The Bible says.......(whatever)"
Click to expand...
phrase with earshot.

We just ignored the ignorance.
 
Cap'nSacto said:
treeguy64; "Racism is deeply ingrained in all of us, (most likely) on a genetic level."

Not on a genetic level, no. Racism is 100% learned.

I can explain a couple of reasons why very few Asians have children out of wedlock. Marriages are still arranged in many Asian countries. At the very least, marriage is strongly encouraged and expected. Also, in a majority of Asian countries, there is no shame attached when a woman gets an abortion for an unwanted pregnancy whether she's married or not.
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We must agree to disagree. The genetic level comes into the equation for reasons I cited in my op, and they are correct. As far as learning to be prejudiced against this group or that one, I agree that one is taught. However, tracing that teaching wayyyyyy back to early man, and even before the ascendancy of our species, the genetic groundwork was put down in early intraspecies dealings.
 
I was born southern and grew up in a very 'southern' town, not so much geographically as in spirit. My town was segregated .... schools, rest rooms, hotels, restaurants, water fountains, everything. Being young and insensitive, I didn't question it. It just was. My step-father tended to be racist but my mother taught me to judge people on their actions, not on the color of their skin. Thank you, Mom.

Racism is not genetic. Babies are not born racists or bigots. It is a learned trait and it's learned at home. And it's alive and well. The Civil Rights Act and public opinion drove racism underground where it festered and grew and as soon as it was safe, it blossomed again.

If one wonders why segregation the 'separate but equal' doctrine did not work, read the book "Something Must Be Done About Prince Edward County" by Kristen Greene.
 
treeguy64 said:
We must agree to disagree. The genetic level comes into the equation for reasons I cited in my op, and they are correct. As far as learning to be prejudiced against this group or that one, I agree that one is taught. However, tracing that teaching wayyyyyy back to early man, and even before the ascendancy of our species, the genetic groundwork was put down in early intraspecies dealings.
Click to expand...

I understand what you are saying, but I wouldn't call it racism. imo, what you're talking about is more in line with the innate behaviors of "survival of the species" and "dominance of species".
 
My father married a Korean woman. Had he married a black woman, they would definitely have encountered more prejudice and misery. As it was, they did encounter a lot of presupposition, such as the presumption that my mother, being Asian, was subservient, completely "unselfish", attentive to his every whim. Most men he met told him he was lucky to have married an Asian woman. There was also a misconception that her *******s were not typical - "sideways" and "slanted" were the words the misinformed used - and he was asked about that a number of times.

That sounds silly and stupid, with no basis in fact or even logic. But that's what racism is. That describes it to a T.
 
applecruncher said:
(DiSCLAIMER: I'm trying very hard say "some", "most", "many" when I refer to whites, blacks, or any ethnic group. I know there are any exceptions. If I neglect to say that it's a mistake on my part. I only speak for one person - myself. There is only one person whose true innermost feelings I'm privy to - mine.)



"Interracial marriage in the United States has been fully legal in all U.S. states since the 1967 Supreme Court decision that deemed anti-miscegenation laws unconstitutional, with many states choosing to legalize interracial marriage at much earlier dates. Anti-miscegenation laws have played a large role in defining racial identity and enforcing the racial hierarchy. The United States has many ethnic and racial groups, and interracial marriage is fairly common among most of them. Interracial marriages increased from 2% of married couples in 1970 to 7% in 2005[1][2] and 8.4% in 2010.[3]

According to a Pew Research Center analysis of census data conducted in 2013, 12% of newlyweds married someone of a different race. (This share does not take into account the “interethnic” marriages between Hispanics and non-Hispanics).[4] And, most Americans say they approve of racial or ethnic intermarriage – not just in the abstract, but in their own families. More than six-in-ten say it would be fine with them if a family member told them they were going to marry someone from any of three major race/ethnic groups other than their own."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracial_marriage#Legality


So, why is it that some people have in the past and still do get upset about interracial dating/marriages?

- "If they have children the kids won't know what they are. I'm just worried about the children."
- "The Bible says.......(whatever)"

^^What.a.crock.of.sh@t. :rolleyes:

There is only one reason a person is bothered about someone else's interracial relationship: because they feel one race is superior to the other.

If other people decide to date/marry someone from another race it's nobody else's business. The kids will be fine. If you're against interracial marriage, fine.......then don't date/marry outside your own race. And don't give me that Bible nonsense. Some of the biggest hypocrites I know sit in church every week and use the Bible to try to justify their behavior.

There are several interracial marriages in my family. Most involve black male and a female of another race. A few involve black female and a male of another race. Most have been married a long time. They have children, and they are doing well. They don't need anyone to feel sorry for them or help them figure out "what they are".

While I'm on a roll, it's not true that all black women resent it when a black man is with a white woman. Some do. But most could not care less. To take it a step further, when I saw/see a white woman with a thuggy, unkept, black guy who won't work I think "better her than me". If some women (regardless of race) are so desperate to get a man they feel they have to settle for some guy who just wants to lay around, make babies, and doesn't and never will have a pot to piss in, well, good luck with that. Many black women agree with me. Not all, but many.

OTOH, I know a lot of good black men who are successful, hard workers, nice guys to one degree or another. Most are with black women, some are with women of other races. I have dated black, white, Indian, and Hispanic men in my lifetime. While some black women that I know have dated men of different races, most tend to date within their race.
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I've been married to a black woman for 21 years now. It's my second marriage so we don't have kids. When I was young the thought of marrying outside of my race just never occurred to me. If for no other reason than the races just did not mix back then where I was. I mean not at all. I never even had an actual conversation with a black person until I was in the Air Force. And even then they were pretty superficial. No soul bearing or anything like that.

I don't even think about it us being of different races anymore. I haven't noticed us being treated any different because of it. Well I take that back. Occasionally white people will seem to go out of their way to be nice to us I suppose trying to show how tolerant they are. It was kind of interesting when we went to my 50th High School reunion and it seemed like there were people trying to compete with each other to get us to sit at their table for dinner. I've always been an introvert and was pretty much a social outcast in High School. Finding a place to sit in the lunch room where I wouldn't get the side eye was a challenge. Of course that's pretty standard in High School. If you stray outside of your clique you quickly get put in your place.
 
Trade said:
I've been married to a black woman for 21 years now. It's my second marriage so we don't have kids. When I was young the thought of marrying outside of my race just never occurred to me. If for no other reason than the races just did not mix back then where I was. I mean not at all. I never even had an actual conversation with a black person until I was in the Air Force. And even then they were pretty superficial. No soul bearing or anything like that.

I don't even think about it us being of different races anymore. I haven't noticed us being treated any different because of it. Well I take that back. Occasionally white people will seem to go out of their way to be nice to us I suppose trying to show how tolerant they are. It was kind of interesting when we went to my 50th High School reunion and it seemed like there were people trying to compete with each other to get us to sit at their table for dinner. I've always been an introvert and was pretty much a social outcast in High School. Finding a place to sit in the lunch room where I wouldn't get the side eye was a challenge. Of course that's pretty standard in High School. If you stray outside of your clique you quickly get put in your place.
Click to expand...

Though superficial, a marked improvement over the years prior to the late 60s.
 
Cap'nSacto said:
My father married a Korean woman. Had he married a black woman, they would definitely have encountered more prejudice and misery. As it was, they did encounter a lot of presupposition, such as the presumption that my mother, being Asian, was subservient, completely "unselfish", attentive to his every whim. Most men he met told him he was lucky to have married an Asian woman. There was also a misconception that her *******s were not typical - "sideways" and "slanted" were the words the misinformed used - and he was asked about that a number of times.

That sounds silly and stupid, with no basis in fact or even logic. But that's what racism is. That describes it to a T.
Click to expand...

I've lost count of the times I've heard white people say that black men have huge penises. (ridiculous :rolleyes: ) But I have to wonder how many penises one has to 'examine' or whatever in order to make that assessment. :wink: :laugh:

When I was in college I heard some girl say she was told black people have tails. WHAT?? :eek:mg1: Years later I asked my dad about this wild rumor, and he said that it was circulating when he was in the service (he was a WWII vet).
 
applecruncher said:
I've lost count of the times I've heard white people say that black men have huge penises. (ridiculous :rolleyes: ) But I have to wonder how many penises one has to 'examine' or whatever in order to make that assessment. :wink: :laugh:

When I was in college I heard some girl say she was told black people have tails. WHAT?? :eek:mg1: Years later I asked my dad about this wild rumor, and he said that it was circulating when he was in the service (he was a WWII vet).
Click to expand...

So, it would follow that, like the chauvinists my father encountered, lots of white women probably said the same thing to black women; "Lucky"

BTW, it's rumored (or once was) that Asian men were "slighted" in that regard. >snort<
 

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