The problem in many police departments AND most government jobs around the country is that politicians have a say in who is or isn't hired regardless of civil service exam scores. Government jobs are used for political favors. I've seen towns around here have to rescore tests and got caught hiring criminals. It's well known that without a politician as a personal reference on your application which is code for hire this person or personal "word" you are finished as an applicant regardless of score. Many hires police and other positions are almost untouchable depending on who put in the word for them on the application or to a hiring committee. It does come down to politics.
Rookie Cop Accidently Shoots and Kills Innocent Unarmed Man in NY Neighborhood
- Thread starter SeaBreeze
- Start date
The problem in many police departments AND most government jobs around the country is that politicians have a say in who is or isn't hired regardless of civil service exam scores. Government jobs are used for political favors. I've seen towns around here have to rescore tests and got caught hiring criminals. It's well known that without a politician as a personal reference on your application which is code for hire this person or personal "word" you are finished as an applicant regardless of score. Many hires police and other positions are almost untouchable depending on who put in the word for them on the application or to a hiring committee. It does come down to politics.
This cop was more worried about his own butt and job security than the public's safety. He texted his union rep before EMS got there, before EMS was called.
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...n-rep-akai-gurley-lay-dying-article-1.2034219
Also they were not supposed to be patrolling that stairwell.
Now cops being in law enforcement will think much more about legal consequences so I get contacting his union rep at the scene. BUT, HUGE BUT; before emergency medical help arrived or called?????? He wasn't putting pressure on the wound or at least covering it? He didn't ask the victim if there was anything he could do or contact??? But to contact the union rep before the scene was even trueley secure???
The problem is obviously in the training AND the mindset of the training officers who think they are doing their trainee a favor by over warning/emphasizing all the stuff could happen and protect their own butts first. The ax man and innocent victim were shot by rookie cops as well.
Debby
Well-known Member
- Location
- East coast of Canada
Denise1952
Well-known Member
Well said Seabreeze, you also have to wonder with all this going on in the world, why a parent would let their child play "cops and robbers" anymore. We did it all the time, but if I had a kid, I sure wouldn't let him go outside at least with a toy gun. Those things look like the real deal
Denise1952
Well-known Member
Sounds to me like our police force/law enforcement aren't getting any better training then you get for a call-center. If they are ramping up on new recruits, they are probably just not getting the training they used to get
Geez, what a messDenise1952
Well-known Member
Please understand I do NOT think this is funny, but all I can see in my mind is someone like Don Knotts, the nervous guy, just firing aimlessly at the drop of a pin. That's just awful that a guy that scared is hired to do a job like that??
You should realize exactly how accurate that description is. Dead on.
Exactly, if one fears that much for their life don't take the job. But that's part of the problem; police officers looking at their job the same way a clock puncher would at Walmart-yet their click is anything but. If you don't like crap then don't be a plumber. If you don't like blood don't be a doctor. If you don't like people don't work in customer service. Jobs serve a purpose other than getting the employee a paycheck ie the job isn't there for the employee the employee is there for that job/need.
That being said any first responder/rescuer doesn't want to become a victim themselves-I get that. But being the so called professional paid to stay calm and use training & experience to resolve situation rather than the emotion/response of a victim I expect much more from police in particular.
Denise1952
Well-known Member
By the same token, their cup-runneth-over, and jobs need to be filled. I have taken jobs I knew I was not "fully" qualified for because I needed a job. Kind like beggars can't be choosers. We are between a rock and a hard-spot, including our law enforcement. I am not directly connected so I can't see what the police are up against as far as recruiting/training, but I can relate to the regular guy/gal that need a job. My sister was a security guard, and she would tell you herself, it was not what she wanted, but she needed to support her kids. It just seems so overwhelming, and I can't imagine dealing with some of this first hand. My heart goes out to all the honest citizens of the US, police, lay people (I guess that's what you call non-pros, I don't know).
I feel sooner or later, at least almost ALL people are going to be personally effected by the mess. It's so easy for me to sit here in my cushy chair and type about "what I think" blablabla but I don't see things getting better.
I mostly agree but you would figure after the 1500 hours or so of training many police departments mandate it would weed out the clock punchers. And the variety of training wether it's physical or classroom also weeds out the weak because many can't flip a switch from a desk to a deck so to speak. A clock puncher would tend to punch out early in the process. I do think as with other professions many slip through the cracks or the attitude changes to the point of what the heck did I just do, get me out of here. Applying for a police officer isn't like applying for cashier at Wendy's either. There's written, physical and psychological tests along with interviews.
And sadly as with any other government job there are favors, deals and/or quotas. Know the right politician and you are in regardless of your resume. Many are pushed and coached through the entire process. My guess in NYC the right politician still can get you hired and/or promoted which I also hear is just as political-civil service be darned. The NYPD is such a large if not largest police department in the world a lot of people and issues slip through the cracks or get over looked. It's mass production policing.
Denise1952
Well-known Member
Hi WIT,
well said, and although I know nothing about the training, or how many hours, I know it's just common sense that some may slip through here are there that are not suited. Mentally or physically. I am not naive to think that unsuitable folks can get jobs just because of who they know or are related to as well.
The amount of violence, including terrorism in the US is enough to shake even the steadiest of nerves, and our law enforcement that are the best at their jobs. I've never been the type to throw out the baby with the bathwater, so if an unfortunate (and yes, heartbreaking) incident is reported, I don't jump to the conclusion our cops all suck. Same way with anyone committing a crime, if their black, I don't assume all blacks suck, same with Muslims. I do understand it must be frightening (beyond) to live where these things are happening, which I don't, but they are getting closer. It's like the gals that "have" to wear their faces covered because of religion (I think it's because of religion), I feel nervous when I pass someone with one of those outfits, I think it's just because I can't see their face/expression.
I don't know, I'm wandering off now, and I realize some of us would look better with our faces covered, LOL!!
well said, and although I know nothing about the training, or how many hours, I know it's just common sense that some may slip through here are there that are not suited. Mentally or physically. I am not naive to think that unsuitable folks can get jobs just because of who they know or are related to as well.
The amount of violence, including terrorism in the US is enough to shake even the steadiest of nerves, and our law enforcement that are the best at their jobs. I've never been the type to throw out the baby with the bathwater, so if an unfortunate (and yes, heartbreaking) incident is reported, I don't jump to the conclusion our cops all suck. Same way with anyone committing a crime, if their black, I don't assume all blacks suck, same with Muslims. I do understand it must be frightening (beyond) to live where these things are happening, which I don't, but they are getting closer. It's like the gals that "have" to wear their faces covered because of religion (I think it's because of religion), I feel nervous when I pass someone with one of those outfits, I think it's just because I can't see their face/expression.
I don't know, I'm wandering off now, and I realize some of us would look better with our faces covered, LOL!!
indicted
The cop who shot the suspect indicted.
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...ooting-akai-gurley-indicted-article-1.2109892
The city being sued for 50 million.
Many are satisfied with this grand jury.
The cop who shot the suspect indicted.
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...ooting-akai-gurley-indicted-article-1.2109892
The city being sued for 50 million.
Many are satisfied with this grand jury.
Denise1952
Well-known Member
I thought that was finished. Everyone was complaining a couple weeks ago because the Grand Jury didn't indict. Nothing like Double Jeopardy applies I guess. I mean I'm not saying good or bad, just thought this was over?
Oh, this is a different case if I read it right, nevermind.
I for one am not happy when these things happen at all, either way. I just figure that what the court/law says goes.
Oh, this is a different case if I read it right, never
mind.I for one am not happy when these things happen at all, either way. I just figure that what the court/law says goes.
And huge spiders, We enjoy our yearly trip to Queensland ( Coolangatta ) in the winter, for a month . Queensland also has Cain toads as many states have now, but I have never seen one, and don't want to either they sound ghastly
Well, the cop should be charged. The man lost his life for no reason, except an accidental shooting by a nervous-nellie cop. Walking in a hallway is no crime, and the cop should have never pulled that trigger. I can't speak to the large lawsuit.
Butterfly
SF VIP
- Location
- Albuquerque, New Mexico USA
I had cap pistols and such as a child, but as I recall, those toy guns didn't look anything like a real gun. Why are they making toy guns that look so much like the real thing that they can only be distinguished by an orange plug anyway?
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
We haven't heard what the two police officers were doing in the stairwell in the first place.
Why were they there at all?
Why were they there at all?
I agree. Stairwell and union rep helped me remember this one. This is the guy who texted his union rep right after. My guess is he will be told to plead out. The victim's family deserves a payout. I hope some training information comes out because this guy had nothing but training with little or no experience.
Side note. I caught this study last week. Police with college degrees use less violence.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/new-stu...ess-likely-to-use-force-against-citizens.html
Makes sense because they are already thinking about the consequences of their actions before they are hired from classes.
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
That sounds a bit fishy to me.
Why were they so jumpy?
Just a vague uneasiness doesn't explain such an extreme response IMO.
Why were they so jumpy?
Just a vague uneasiness doesn't explain such an extreme response IMO.
Well, accidents do happen. I once investigated an accidental shooting of a fellow that was cleaning his gun and shot his wife in the head. That was all well and good, but he couldn't explain away the second bullet hole in her back. (just kidding) Accidents do happen, even to cops. We had a veteran police officer that shot his son while hunting. Hunting accidents used to be a good way of getting rid of someone that a person had an issue with. With today's forensics, it is almost impossible to say it was accidental. It is amazing at what forensics can uncover. On average, I probably investigated 2-3 hunting accidents each year.
Yes 911 I agree, accidents do happen even to cops, they're just like anybody else in any profession. Like I said, an accidental shooting by a nervous-Nellie cop. The thing is, when you're out hunting animals in the woods with rifles, you are careful and know there's a danger of someone like Cheney being around, but minding your own business walking down the stairs in your friend's apartment building and being shot by a cop for no reason is a whole different thing. You're supposed to be afraid of the bad guys, not those in uniform. Since it was an accident, and a life lost for no good reason, he should be charged with manslaughter like anyone else would. My heart goes out to the family of the deceased.
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
We had a fatal shooting by police a couple of days ago in greater Sydney.
A young woman (22 yr old) was reported to be at a fast food outlet with a large carving knife and the police were called.
About 4 police responded and found her outside, still armed with a knife and sucking on a slurpee.
She was agitated and the police applied capsicum spray and a tazer but she charged at them with the knife slashing about.
One shot to the chest felled her and she died at the scene. It has been said that she suffered from Ausberger's syndrome
It was captured on camera. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-...wielding-woman-at-hoxton-hungry-jacks/6082788
The policeman who fired is reported to be distraught and the other police are also very upset by the incident.
There will be an inquiry because this is technically a death in custody, and these incidents are taken very seriously.
It is unlikely that the officer will face any disciplinary action. He will receive counselling.
IMO, this is very different to a man being shot for simply using a stairwell in a private building. However, if an appropriate inquiry finds that action reasonable, then fair enough.
A young woman (22 yr old) was reported to be at a fast food outlet with a large carving knife and the police were called.
About 4 police responded and found her outside, still armed with a knife and sucking on a slurpee.
She was agitated and the police applied capsicum spray and a tazer but she charged at them with the knife slashing about.
One shot to the chest felled her and she died at the scene. It has been said that she suffered from Ausberger's syndrome
It was captured on camera. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-...wielding-woman-at-hoxton-hungry-jacks/6082788
The policeman who fired is reported to be distraught and the other police are also very upset by the incident.
There will be an inquiry because this is technically a death in custody, and these incidents are taken very seriously.
It is unlikely that the officer will face any disciplinary action. He will receive counselling.
IMO, this is very different to a man being shot for simply using a stairwell in a private building. However, if an appropriate inquiry finds that action reasonable, then fair enough.
This is a bit different, because this young woman had a knife in her hand. But really, did the cops need to shoot her in the chest right away and kill her? I don't think so. If they can't find other ways to stop a young woman with a knife, then I really can't have any respect for them.
So the pepper spray didn't stop her, they couldn't shoot her in the leg to slow her down? Were they really so afraid of this girl that they had to kill her?
Their being distraught and upset by the incident means nothing, the girl is now dead, right? Maybe if someone sprayed burning pepper spray in my eyes, I'd be stumbling toward them with the knife 'slashing about'.
Come on now, and the fact that she was suffering with a medical condition makes it even more pathetic. Aren't these cops in any country, trained to handle any situations without shooting to kill? These stories sicken me.