Running with the bulls

Warrigal

Warrigal

SF VIP
Location
Sydney, Australia
I'll never understand this practice. I regard it as lunacy.
Three foreigners will probably agree with me after being gored.

Two Americans and a British man were gored and eight others injured as runners dashed ahead of six half-tonne fighting bulls in a fast first running at Spain's annual San Fermin festival.

A 30-year-old British man was gored between the legs in the perineum area, authorities from Pamplona said in a statement. Ouch, if he hasn't got children by now he probably never will have.

A 38-year-old from California was gored in his right armpit and another 27-year-old American was also gored in an undisclosed spot.

None of the injuries were considered to be life-threatening.

Eight other men, including three Americans, were treated in hospital for bruises and scrapes suffered in falls.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-07-...on-gored-in-opening-pamplona-bull-run/6603330
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Any other opinions about this?
 

Not too long ago I saw a 5 minute video about Running with Bulls in Pamplona, Spain....hard to watch. I had no idea it was so bad. People teasing, pulling the tail, and beating the poor confused animal :(because he was coming near a runner who had fallen to the ground. Others cheering in balconies. Terrible.
 
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I laugh when these fools are gored, to me it's animal abuse and a disgusting practice. Another reason I like animals over people.
 

In many places, abusive sacrifice of animals is illegal: cockfighting, etc, comes to mind. Seems the argument against this type of practice came about long before concern was widely expressed for animals' welfare. The arguments were chiefly centered around the illegal gambling associated with the abuse, I believe.

OTOH, we (society in general) do not object to the killing of animals via hunting, slaughter for meat, quarantined diseased animals, over-populations of animals (that being generally the province of government, except perhaps where cattlemen kill predators such as wolves).

Is there an element of hypocrisy peeping out here? imp
 
I have no sympathy for the ignorant people who get hurt while torturing poor innocent animals in the name of entertainment or 'tradition'.
 
I do exactly what you do too SB...on the rare occasion I see footage of a Bullfight and believe me I don't seek it out...if I see someone gored, I do find myself shouting...''SERVES YoU RIGHT!! I have absolutele and complete contempt for anyone who gets hurt while in the process of hurting an innocent animal.

The majority of the Spanish populace are in agreement and would rather not see bullfighting as part of their national sport..


This from the telegraph...


An Ipsos Mori poll last year showed that most Spaniards do not approve of public funds being used for bullfighting, that 75 per cent have not attended a bullfight in the past five years, and only 29 per cent were in favour of it. Yet actual banning commands little political attention.
Last year, Spain's parliament bestowed cultural-heritage status on bullfighting, making it much harder for further bans beyond that of Catalonia in 2010, and the Canaries in the early 1990s, to take effect. Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, the former Socialist Party prime minister, has said that he is not in favour of prohibition, too, while the currently ruling Partido Popular party has rejected the notion completely.
In the mainstream media, too, bullfighting's social acceptability is rarely questioned. In Spain's best-selling daily El Pais yesterday, San Isidro's bullfights garnered a hefty two pages of coverage (one, it should be said, on the improving state of health of the three toreros), the same as its chief conservative-minded rival, El Mundo. (On the El Pais website, incidentally, you have to click through the "Culture" to get to bullfighting, rather than – as non-Spaniards might think – "Sport".)
 
As it happens, I was watching a documentary on the ancient Minoans, who had a ritual involving bull leaping. The object was to run head on at the charging bull, and leap over it lengthwise. I used to think, that that was impossible, but it turns out, they still do that today!
I am not defending bull fighting in any form here. A horrible display of animal torture, before a dreadful climax. I understand its appeal to the macho types. There is no denying the physical courage of the matadors. Even after the bull is exhausted, and weakened, the matadors are often seriously gored and sometimes killed. The Spanish would be well rid of the embarrassment of it all, and more importantly, the mind set that goes with it.
 
imp said:
In many places, abusive sacrifice of animals is illegal: cockfighting, etc, comes to mind. Seems the argument against this type of practice came about long before concern was widely expressed for animals' welfare. The arguments were chiefly centered around the illegal gambling associated with the abuse, I believe.

OTOH, we (society in general) do not object to the killing of animals via hunting, slaughter for meat, quarantined diseased animals, over-populations of animals (that being generally the province of government, except perhaps where cattlemen kill predators such as wolves).

Is there an element of hypocrisy peeping out here? imp
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IMHo there is a huge gulf between killing for food and killing for FUN!!! Bulllfighting, etc., is killing for entertainment and is absolutely disgusting and reprehensible. The running of the bulls is torturing the animals for entertainment, and is equally disgusting and reprehensible.

Even animals kill one another for food, but man is the only one who kills for entertainment value.

No, no hypocrisy here.

Have you eaten any meat lately??
 
Second day and more idiots injured.

1 Australian Gored, 2 Injured in Fast 2nd Pamplona Bull-Run

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
JULY 8, 2015,
PAMPLONA, Spain — An Australian was gored twice by a fighting bull and two people suffered other injuries as thousands of thrill-seekers dashed alongside the beasts in the second bull-run of Pamplona's San Fermin festival Wednesday.

The San Fermin press office said the victim was a 27-year-old man identified only by his initials, T.L.O. He was gored in the groin and the thigh in Pamplona's bull ring at the end of the run and was treated by doctors on the scene before being taken to a city hospital. His injuries were described as minor.

A Spaniard was hospitalized for rib injuries while a Frenchman was treated for multiple bruises but later released. Two Americans and a Briton were gored and eight others injured in the first run Tuesday. All but the two Americans were released the same day.

One American still hospitalized was Mike Webster, a 38-year-old occupational therapist from Gainesville, Florida, who was gored in the armpit as he joined the bull-run in Pamplona for the 38th time in 11 years. He said Tuesday he hadn't decided whether he'd run again. A serial idiot, surely.

The other was identified only by his initials, R.H.O., a 25-year-old from Tempe, Arizona, who suffered facial bruising.

The nationally televised 8 a.m. run sees people racing with six bulls and their guiding steer along a narrow 930-yard (850-meter) course from a holding pen to the city bull ring. The bulls are then killed by professional matadors in bullfights each afternoon.

Wednesday's run lasted 2 minutes, 14 seconds.

The nine-day fiesta in Pamplona, which features 24-hour street partying, was made famous in Ernest Hemingway's 1926 novel "The Sun Also Rises" and attracts thousands of foreign tourists.

Bull runs are a traditional part of summer festivals across Spain. Dozens are injured each year, mostly in falls.
Two men died recently after being gored by bulls in Spanish festivals — one Saturday in the eastern town of Grao de Castellon and another June 24 in the southwestern town of Coria.

In all, 15 people have died from gorings in Pamplona since record-keeping began in 1924 for the San Fermin festival.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/07/08/world/europe/ap-eu-spain-running-of-the-bulls.html?_r=0
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Bear in mind that throughout most of the history of civilization men have been measured by their courage and for good and just reasons. Some vestiges of this behavior remain and a lot of men do a lot of stupid things not because they crave the excitement, but to demonstrate their foolhardy courage. This is part of the reason woman live longer than men.

2015-renfest-jousting.jpg
 
When we were in our teens, my younger sister and I bummed around Europe for three months. We had the great idea of going to Pamplona for the running, so we hopped a train. When we got off, we were greeted by the policia in the station, asked if we were staying with friends or family and when we said no, we were put right back on the train again. They said that Pamplona was no place for young women right then. Looking back, I have to see that we were insane to even consider doing that. Thousands of men, hyped up on testosterone, machismo, and alcohol and two teenage girls on their own. Bad idea.....very bad idea.
 
Kinda gives Spain, along with some South American countries and Mexico, a BAD name.

They have daily bullfights in TJ.

OH, and BTW; They DON't give the meat from the dead bulls to the poor people.
It's too full of adrenaline, rendering it inedible.
 
I did this one time only there was only one bull and it was out on the farm. I went inside a fence marked, "keep out." It was maybe a quarter acre but the bull thought it was his quarter acre and didn't take kindly to trespassers. I picked up the ball and the bull charged charged me. I beat him to the fence and slid under the barbed wire like a runner sliding into home.
 
My only encounter with bulls has left me with the impression that left alone, they can be gentle beasts.

First encounter was in my forties when I returned to university and was studying geology. We were on a field trip and had to scale the slopes of a saddleback formation. The initial slope was covered in wet alphalpha and was very slippery. I found it rather exhausting and so did the young woman who had not long given birth to her fourth child. When we had made it to the saddle and looked at the next climb we both decided to sit down and wait for the others to return.

That's when we noticed the bull grazing nearby. He was a descendant of cattle that escaped during the early days of the colony. They live wild in the valleys of the Blue Mountains and have done so for nearly 200 years. Slightly alarmed but out of breath, we both made the decision to sit tight with a plan to slide down the hill on our backsides if he came after us. However, he wasn't at all interested in us and we descended at leisure when we were ready.

My second encounter was when I went to visit my father's brother in Queensland. Uncle Wal had been a public servant and on retirement he bought a small property and ran maybe a dozen Brahmin cattle. He had no dogs and no horse to handle them; he simply stood at the fence and called them and they came. They all had names and the bull was called Peter. He was an ugly brute and the hump on his neck was above my head. Uncle Wal invited me into the yard to meet Peter and give him a pat. Peter accepted my attentions with indifference. While I was doing this Wal observed that one of the cows appeared to be in heat. I was standing between Peter and the cow at that time and was rather disturbed by this information but Wal assured me that mating was not likely to happen until after dark that evening. Nevertheless I decided that I would retreat behind the fence and we watched Peter and his lady courting by nuzzling each other in a very tender way. It was quite sweet.

Bulls don't have to be vicious brutes any more than dogs do. It depends on how they are selected for in the breeding process and how they are treated.
 
"Even animals kill one another for food, but man is the only one who kills for entertainment value."



Understood, and agreed! However, Please be aware that much of the "hunting" performed as "sport", involves the killing of innocent animals with no regard whatsoever of food purposes. It remains unanswered, despite your post, how "feelings for animals", as well as "animals' "rights", do not apply to the killing of animals for reasons other than sport. It's acceptable to kill, for example, innocent doves (in AZ, beginning Sept. 1), thousands of which are killed within a few days, with absolute abandon, not for food purposes in most cases. Still hypocrisy. imp
 
Hypocrisy on the part of whom? The elusive "they?" The people who kill those doves? Yes. But not on the part of those of us who do not approve of that sort of killing. I personally abhor all killing for sport.
 
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What is not being addressed here, in our benevolence and anger toward the Spanish bull customs, is that we, non-Spanish peoples, cannot change Spanish mores, cultural attitudes, or popular sentiment. To try to do so, invites an incursion little different than our involvement in the Middle-East. Spain is a sovereign state, governed by a sovereign power. Should popular sentiment there, Spanish Popular Sentiment, dictate change in the attitudes towards animals, bulls in particular, I guess, then it is change desired by the majority THERE. Should the WORLD MAJORITY disagree with Spanish cultural philosophy, that fact allows the world majority to do nothing more than fret and moan, as sovereignty reigns over Spain.

Given the horrible results of our (American) incursions into Iraq, Afghanistan, now Syria, perhaps soon others, what is the point of decrying the "bull situation" in Spain? Yes, I agree it's morbid, and wrong. No, I don't believe fretting and fussing over it will change anything at all. Discuss it's demerits to any length, but how about getting on with the significant, truly significant, problems? imp
 
Non-Spanish people needn't flock to this festival as tourists or participants.
The finger doesn't just point towards the Spaniards.
 

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