School shooting in Madison, WI

They should privatize gun use and make laws that prohibit the ownership of a firearm. A single shot .22 long barrel single shot riffle can be owned if requirements are met ( farming - wilderness stuff ). If/when you want to go hunting or target shooting, you go to the store and rent a gun. You would have all kinds of businesses involved to keep the guns off the street, and laying around people's houses.
 

Paco Dennis said:
They should privatize gun use and make laws that prohibit the ownership of a firearm. A single shot .22 long barrel single shot riffle can be owned if requirements are met ( farming - wilderness stuff ). If/when you want to go hunting or target shooting, you go to the store and rent a gun. You would have all kinds of businesses involved to keep the guns off the street, and laying around people's houses.
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Acme Gun Rentals: for when you just want to kill a few people but don't want to invest all that money in a firearm. :cool:
 
Paco Dennis said:
They should privatize gun use and make laws that prohibit the ownership of a firearm. A single shot .22 long barrel single shot riffle can be owned if requirements are met ( farming - wilderness stuff ). If/when you want to go hunting or target shooting, you go to the store and rent a gun. You would have all kinds of businesses involved to keep the guns off the street, and laying around people's houses.
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Ahhh, no.
 
California has the strictest gun laws in the US.
California has had twice the number of mass shootings than any other state since 1982.
The majority of mass shootings are done with a handgun, not an assault style rifle.
The highest number of deaths by guns are suicides, not by weapon wielding murderers.

More children are killed by their own parents each year, than by mass murderers wielding guns in any year.

Nobody wants more strict laws to stop parents from killing their kiddos.

The MEDIA is the reason school shootings keep happening.
 
No it isn't. The media covers these events worldwide - but worldwide gun deaths don't occur everywhere else like in US.

If you want to reduce gun deaths, reduce easy access to guns and revise gun culture. Those are the things different in US and thus the difference in gun deaths.
Or don't and change nothing and these events will continue
As indeed they are.
 
CooCooforCoCoPuffs said:
California has the strictest gun laws in the US.
California has had twice the number of mass shootings than any other state since 1982.
The majority of mass shootings are done with a handgun, not an assault style rifle.
The highest number of deaths by guns are suicides, not by weapon wielding murderers.

More children are killed by their own parents each year, than by mass murderers wielding guns in any year.

Nobody wants more strict laws to stop parents from killing their kiddos.

The MEDIA is the reason school shootings keep happening.
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Only a national approach will be sufficient to the deal with the firearms problem. As long as it is possible to travel out of state to buy firearms, states like California have no hope of dealing with the problem.

Suicide is another aspect of the same problem.

Which do Americans prefer - freedom of the press to report news, or freedom to buy as many guns as you wish, and lax laws about safe storage and background checks?
 
Warrigal said:
Gun toters from a past era did not have access to semiautomatic weapons and bump stocks.
[/QUOTE
Warrigal said:
Only a national approach will be sufficient to the deal with the firearms problem. As long as it is possible to travel out of state to buy firearms, states like California have no hope of dealing with the problem.

Suicide is another aspect of the same problem.

Which do Americans prefer - freedom of the press to report news, or freedom to buy as many guns as you wish, and lax laws about safe storage and background checks?
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Only a national approach to what makes people WANT to off themselves or others will be sufficient.
We don't HAVE a firearms problem.
We have a PEOPLE/CULTURES issue. It needs to be determined what exactly makes people act out so violently has nothing to do with "availability" of guns.

And the media here is just terrible about being partisan; I don't even want to get into the press....

The Finns all have guns and they don't do this crap!
Mostly because they don't have 20-40 different cultures. The more homogenous a culture IS the more the culture thinks alike and has less strife.

Americans won't just up and surrender a freedom. A right to protect themselves with 20-30 different cultures all attempting to co-exist together; nor so American's trust government, we are a people first, a government second. Not the other way around.
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CooCooforCoCoPuffs said:
California has the strictest gun laws in the US.
California has had twice the number of mass shootings than any other state since 1982.
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Statistics available on the internet present California as the most populous state. The raw number may be highest, but what about comparing states by per capita figures? (BTW, I don't know what the answer on this would be.)
CooCooforCoCoPuffs said:
The majority of mass shootings are done with a handgun, not an assault style rifle.
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Again, I'm not very knowledgeable about guns. But isn't it the case that a semi-automatic handgun like a Glock can accommodate quite ample bullet clips? Something a lot more than a revolver can hold?
CooCooforCoCoPuffs said:
More children are killed by their own parents each year, than by mass murderers wielding guns in any year.
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If so, that is appalling.
CooCooforCoCoPuffs said:
Nobody wants more strict laws to stop parents from killing their kiddos.
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Nobody? I'd imagine very many would like such laws, if they could be formulated & practical.

I'm not in the U.S. Just some thoughts.
 
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You only have what - six states with their own governments in AUS?
We have FIFTY states.
US society - the economics, the cultural, the philosophical, the anthropological, the historical (not so much) aspects of the US is far more complex than many can possibly understand, for most, it takes a high level of education to understand much of it, in order to totally grasp the complexity and nuances; plus a lifetime of being born an living in many states and jurisdictions.
 
The Finns all have guns and they don't do this crap!
Mostly because they don't have 20-40 different cultures. The more homogenous a culture IS the more the culture thinks alike and has less strife.
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No, the Finns do not all have guns - simple google tells me 12% own a gun, which obviously means the vast majority do not.
It also tells me many belong to hunters and people in sports shooting clubs- so very different attitude and culture to US

Nothing to do with homogenous culture - US is certainly not only country with multi cultures. Not by a long shot.
That isnt the difference - nor is divorce, mental illness,media reporting or whatever thing you plan to blame it on next.

The difference is gun availability especially the types of guns and gun culture

.Interesting how many other things get blamed but not the obvious.

Stop looking for zebras.
 
CooCooforCoCoPuffs said:
You only have what - six states with their own governments in AUS?
We have FIFTY states.
US society - the economics, the cultural, the philosophical, the anthropological, the historical (not so much) aspects of the US is far more complex than many can possibly understand, for most, it takes a high level of education to understand much of it, in order to totally grasp the complexity and nuances; plus a lifetime of being born an living in many states and jurisdictions.
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I think most people know US has 50 states. Not sure why need to put that in capitals. 🤷‍♀️

Your societal system may be super complex and hard to understand - the root cause of your massively disproportionate gun deaths isn't.
 
CooCooforCoCoPuffs said:
You only have what - six states with their own governments in AUS?
We have FIFTY states.
US society - the economics, the cultural, the philosophical, the anthropological, the historical (not so much) aspects of the US is far more complex than many can possibly understand, for most, it takes a high level of education to understand much of it, in order to totally grasp the complexity and nuances; plus a lifetime of being born an living in many states and jurisdictions.
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50 states or not, there have been amendments to the Constitution before today. No-one said it would be easy.

Yes, Australia has just 6 states and two territories. Gun legislation is only the responsibility of the Commonwealth when it comes to importation (customs). It can prohibit certain classes of weapons, including knives and other lethal items.

What happened after our last appalling massacre was that the Prime Minister called all the states together to look at the issue. He proposed uniform legislation in every state, and after some argument, this is what happened. The federal government can pass laws for the two territories. No-one wanted a Port Arthur* situation happening in their state. There has not been one on that scale since 28 April 1996. That is almost three decades ago.

*Port Arthur massacre (Australia) - Wikipedia
 
We went to town today. About 2 miles from us is the new MidwayUSA Gun and Outdoor supply store ( extraordinaire ). Larry Potterfield is from this area and has been in this business a long time. Now he is worth $2.4 billion. The mega store is under construction. They have had to widen the lanes and put in new sewage and water lines. Now it is beginning to look like a Nazi headquarters. I almost got sick seeing how it coming along. They bought a bunch of farm land and tore it up. Now there will be a plethora of guns to get there. Wonderful. 2.4 Billion...invest in guns not nutritious food and housing.

I am glad I don't go to town any more to let off steam. That place might give me ideas that could be trouble. 😡
 
Further to Warrigals post about the Port Arthur massacre in 1996 - a similar event occurred in New Zealand in 2019.

It was done by an Australian but he did it there because he was unable to get the automatic type of gun in Australia

New Zealand responded quickly by implementing similar law there - no further such events have occurred since.
 
JBR said:
Statistic available on the internet present California as the most populous state. That may be by numbers, but what about comparing states by per capita figures? (BTW, I don't know what the answer on this would be.)

Again, I'm not very knowledgeable about guns. But isn't it the case that a semi-automatic handgun like a Glock can accommodate quite ample bullet clips? Something a lot more than a revolver can hold?

If so, that is appalling.

Nobody? I'd imagine very many would like such laws, if they could be formulated & practical.

I'm not in the U.S. Just some thoughts.
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Rifles are much more reliable mechanically vs handguns IMHO; having said that semi-autos in the US by law can only hold so many bullets (rounds) as well, clips for ANY firearm are limited in size. A revolver holds 5. A semi auto has clips; some states like CA have a 10 round limit to clips; TX has no limit to the size of clips for semi auto. SO: does not appear stricter gun laws in the US help.

Texas has more freedom gun ownership rights than CA; more guns owned in Texas per capita (educated guess)
CA has only a little more population than Texas, Texas is 2nd most populous state.

The DIFFERENCE is the CULTURE, the VALUES. Texas and California are like night and day on CULTURE.

I have been to California at least 50-100 times in my life, and very recently. I do, honestly believe it is the culture.

There is even road sign leaving California, at the border that states:

"You are now leaving California, Welcome to the USA".

My educated guess about CA is the non-homogeneous population that creates their hostility problem: there is ZERO commonality in VALUES and social boundaries! It is like a society free for all - do whatever I want no matter who or what it hurts. The society in CA seem to have a going over the edge stress feel, perhaps overcrowding stressors? And they don't even seem to KNOW it.... well some must because people in California are bailing out and immigrating to many OTHER states; society is in such a downturn in CA and the economy is failing right behind it.

Don't even get me started on the behaviors of MANY Californians I have interacted with, both IN California as well as in other states they are visiting; particularily in public. Note: In the 60s and 70s California was known as "The Land of the Fruits and Nuts"....for a reason obviously, it seems and it does not seem to have changed a whole lot in 60 years. Far northern/eastern California seems to be more civilized and of course more rural, less dense population.
 
January said:
Further to Warrigals post about the Port Arthur massacre in 1996 - a similar event occurred in New Zealand in 2019.

It was done by an Australian but he did it there because he was unable to get the automatic type of gun in Australia

New Zealand responded quickly by implementing similar law there - no further such events have occurred since.
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One cannot even own a gun for protection in Australia. One must express a sound reason, and self protection isn't one of them..from what I have gleaned off their gun ownership info website.
 
Warrigal said:
50 states or not, there have been amendments to the Constitution before today. No-one said it would be easy.

Yes, Australia has just 6 states and two territories. Gun legislation is only the responsibility of the Commonwealth when it comes to importation (customs). It can prohibit certain classes of weapons, including knives and other lethal items.

What happened after our last appalling massacre was that the Prime Minister called all the states together to look at the issue. He proposed uniform legislation in every state, and after some argument, this is what happened. The federal government can pass laws for the two territories. No-one wanted a Port Arthur* situation happening in their state. There has not been one on that scale since 28 April 1996. That is almost three decades ago.

*Port Arthur massacre (Australia) - Wikipedia
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Hope it works for ya'll for as long as possible. What is your mental health benefits and programs look like?
 
People don't need a gun for protection here - the cycle of more people needing more guns to protect against more other people with more guns doesn't lead to safer outcomes - as US clearly demonstrates.

People with a reason to own a gun here in Aus - sports shooters, hunters,farmers etc can apply for a licence. The guns must be stored safely in a gun safe when not in use - so you are correct, wanting one readily available to use ' for protection' does not apply
 
Paco Dennis said:
We went to town today. About 2 miles from us is the new MidwayUSA Gun and Outdoor supply store ( extraordinaire ). Larry Potterfield is from this area and has been in this business a long time. Now he is worth $2.4 billion. The mega store is under construction. They have had to widen the lanes and put in new sewage and water lines. Now it is beginning to look like a Nazi headquarters. I almost got sick seeing how it coming along. They bought a bunch of farm land and tore it up. Now there will be a plethora of guns to get there. Wonderful. 2.4 Billion...invest in guns not nutritious food and housing.

I am glad I don't go to town any more to let off steam. That place might give me ideas that could be trouble. 😡
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Everyone has their own belief system, rights, opinions. Like I mentioned in other places on SF..Americans are not all from one culture. There are 50 cultures (each state is different, how much alike or how unlike, depends on proximity to each state; in addition we have regional cultures, we have rural vs city cultures...etc). People are bound to think alike.

Just because one is pro gun ownership does not mean they think an act of murder or suicide is no less horrific than someone who is not pro fun ownership. I am of the opinion no one under the age of 25 should drive or drink and all young adults should do 4 years in military reserves of some sort. But I won't force my belief on someone else as we all have our rights to think and vote as we wish.
 
CooCooforCoCoPuffs said:
Hope it works for ya'll for as long as possible. What is your mental health benefits and programs look like?
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As Warrigal pointed out, it is working well - Port Arthur event occurred in 1996 and gun reforms took place shortly afterwards - no such events have occurred in the 25+ years since.

Same story for New Zealand since 2019.

Mental health benifits and programs is a separate topic. Of course there is mental illness here too and there are gaps in provision of mental health services. As I'm sure there is in US too

However the difference in gun availability and gun culture mean such do not result in the rate of gun deaths as they do there.
 

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