School shooting in Nashville!!

Alligatorob said:
It was that comma that the Supreme Court used, in part, in part to support stronger rights to gun ownership. But it's interpretation is debatable, see below. And you are right things looked very different to people just after the American Revolution, which may have gone differently without individual gun ownership.

Really knowing what the founding fathers meant by the amendment and how to interpret it in todays world isn't easy and will probably always be questioned and debated.

While the D.C. Circuit Court focused only on the second
comma, the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution actually has three:
“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free
State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be
infringed.” The 2–1 majority of judges held that the meaning turns
on the second comma, which “divides the Amendment into two
clauses; the first is prefatory, and the second operative.”
The court dismissed the prefatory clause about militias as not
central to the amendment and concluded that the operative clause
prevents the government from interfering with an individual’s right
to tote a gun.

Needless to say, the National Rifle Assn. is very
happy with this interpretation. But I dissent. Strict constructionists,
such as the majority on the appeals court, might do better to interpret the 2nd Amendment based not on what they learned about
commas in college but on what the framers actually thought about
commas in the 18th century.

The most popular grammars in the framers’ day were written by
Robert Lowth (1762) and Lindley Murray (1795). Though both are
concerned with correcting writing mistakes, neither dwells much
on punctuation. Lowth calls punctuation “imperfect,” with few precise rules and many exceptions. Murray adds that commas signal a
pause for breath. Here’s an example of such a pause, from the Constitution: “The judicial power of the United States, shall be vested in
one Supreme Court” (Article III, Section 1). But times change. If a
student put that comma in a paper today, it would be marked
wrong.

The first comma in the 2nd Amendment signals a pause. At first
glance, it looks like it’s setting off a phrase in apposition, but by the
time you get to the second comma, even if you don’t know what a
phrase in apposition is, you realize that it doesn’t do that. That second comma identifies what grammarians call an absolute clause,
which modifies the entire subsequent clause. Murray gave this ex
ample: “His father dying, he succeeded to the estate.” With such
absolute constructions, the second clause follows logically from the
first.

So, the 2nd Amendment’s second comma tells us that the subsequent clauses, “the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall
not be infringed,” are the logical result of what preceded the
comma: “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of
a free State.” The third comma, the one after “Arms,” just signals a
pause. But the ju[dg]es repeatedly dropped that final comma altogether when quoting the 2nd Amendment – not wise if you’re arguing that commas are vital to meaning.

But that’s just my interpretation. As the D.C. Circuit Court decision shows us, punctuation doesn’t make meaning, people do.
And until a higher court says otherwise, people who swear by punctuation will hold onto their commas until they’re pried from their
cold, dead hands.

A Constitutional Conundrum of Second Amendment Commas
https://scholarship.law.wm.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2167&context=facpubs
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Good find, @Alligatorob!

For nearly 200 years, the 2nd Amendment was interpreted to be a collective right. Suddenly, that was incorrect and it was really an individual right. :rolleyes:
 

Della said:
I just hear Gayle King (CBS news anchor) talking about how we love our children so much we've padded all the playground equipment, but we don't do anything about guns, the number one cause of death for American children.

I was nodding my head.

Then she looked in the camera and said, '"I'm not talking about you responsible gun owners."

Right there's the problem.

Every gun owner thinks he's a responsible owner. Too many politicians and new anchors are afraid of offending those responsible owners. They all hang onto a childish belief that we can tell the good guys from the bad guys, and simply not sell guns to the bad guys.

And all the gun owners value their own selfish right to own guns over the lives of children.
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"And all the gun owners value their own selfish right to own guns over the lives of children."

Bingo!

I have not posted on the mass shootings threads lately because it's just the same sad and devastation thing over and over and over, and it will remain so as long as too many people put their gun rights above children's lives.
 
George1959 said:
"A very sick society". True. As I already wrote, in Czechoslovakia the people are requested by the government to buy and carry guns. And there are no mass shootings.
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Czechoslovakia hasn't existed since 1992. In the Czech Republic, however, a gun license is required for gun ownership.
 

With regards to guns..this is what happens here if you own a gun without being vetted first by the police and then havig it licnced..

This today from our local paper...

A Sandridge man has been jailed for 10 years after police found a shotgun in his van near Watford. The incident occurred in the early hours of the morning on May 27, 2021, when Herts Police was called by a resident of a property in Blackford Road, South Oxhey, to reports that a van had been abandoned in their driveway.

It was reported that two men had been seen leaving the van, and were overheard talking about a gun being fired. Herts Police officers attended and found two men at a nearby property, who were refusing to engage and were giving false details about the registered owner of the van.

Both men were arrested on suspicion of taking a vehicle without consent. Robert Dean, aged 35 and from Watford, and Jamie Harrowell, aged 37 and from Sandridge, were both subsequently charged.


The van was seized and searched by officers, who discovered a shotgun and a few rounds of ammunition. Both men were further arrested on suspicion of possession of a firearm and possession of ammunition.

After a trial at St Albans Crown Court, Harrowell was found guilty of possessing a firearm with intent to endanger life, possessing ammunition with intent to endanger life, possessing a prohibited firearm, possessing ammunition without a firearm certificate and possessing a firearm when prohibited. Both were sentenced on Tuesday, March 7


Dean was found guilty of possessing a prohibited firearm and possessing ammunition without a firearm certificate. Harrowell was sentenced to 10 years in prison, and a further five years on licence.


Dean was given a 24-month sentence suspended for 18-months, having been on remand since his conviction date of December 22, 2022. Herts Police detective constable Rob King, who led the investigation, said: "Harrowell had an extensive criminal history with a number of serious offences, which is reflected in his sentence


"I hope he uses his time in prison to reflect on his choices, and that this sentence sends a strong message to those involved in firearms criminality. Harrowell is now facing a lengthy time behind bars and the same fate awaits anyone involved in this abhorrent criminal activity."
 
Murrmurr said:
Remember that armored car heisting gang that outgunned the police back somewhere around 1987 ? Think it was in Texas. Or Philly? Anyway, that was revolutionary. Police across the country got upgrades real quick.
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And also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout

Police were outgunned, 10 were seriously injured & officers stopped at a gun shop to borrow assault weapons. Ever since, there are assault weapons in every police vehicle. Including motorcycles.
 
Della said:
I just hear Gayle King (CBS news anchor) talking about how we love our children so much we've padded all the playground equipment, but we don't do anything about guns, the number one cause of death for American children.

I was nodding my head.

Then she looked in the camera and said, '"I'm not talking about you responsible gun owners."

Right there's the problem.

Every gun owner thinks he's a responsible owner. Too many politicians and new anchors are afraid of offending those responsible owners. They all hang onto a childish belief that we can tell the good guys from the bad guys, and simply not sell guns to the bad guys.

And all the gun owners value their own selfish right to own guns over the lives of children.
Click to expand...
Yes, how utterly selfish of anyone who protects the lives of their loved ones! :ROFLMAO:
 
Della said:
Do you really think Americans are that much sicker than Canadians or Japanese or any other country? Yes we have division and anger and hate, but so does every society since the Garden of Eden. They just didn't all have guns to act out their feelings.
Click to expand...
No, my comment is about all societies, primarily western. We have the same problems in Canada - the same hate and division - we just don't have the same weapons for them to 'act out their feelings' so they find something else.

The following is from an article posted in another thread:

"A 37-year-old dad was stabbed to death in front of his 3-year-old daughter and fiancée outside a Starbucks in Canada after he asked the attacker not to vape in front of his child, his family said."

My daughter and son-in-law recently spoke with a child psychologist and he told them there has been an explosion in the number of young children with anxiety and other behavioral problems. A friend told me her daughter, who is in her early 30s, and all her daughter's friends are on medication for anxiety. Our society is in trouble and it breaks my heart to see the damage being done to young people.
 
perChance said:
No, my comment is about all societies, primarily western. We have the same problems in Canada - the same hate and division - we just don't have the same weapons for them to 'act out their feelings' so they find something else.

The following is from an article posted in another thread:

"A 37-year-old dad was stabbed to death in front of his 3-year-old daughter and fiancée outside a Starbucks in Canada after he asked the attacker not to vape in front of his child, his family said."

My daughter and son-in-law recently spoke with a child psychologist and he told them there has been an explosion in the number of young children with anxiety and other behavioral problems. A friend told me her daughter, who is in her early 30s, and all her daughter's friends are on medication for anxiety. Our society is in trouble and it breaks my heart to see the damage being done to young people.
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Most mass shooters (including this one) are "Under a doctor's care for depression," which means they're on antidepressant drugs. Those drugs all come with a warning: "This medication can cause suicidal & homicidal tendencies." No surprise there.
 
perChance said:
No, my comment is about all societies, primarily western. We have the same problems in Canada - the same hate and division - we just don't have the same weapons for them to 'act out their feelings' so they find something else.

The following is from an article posted in another thread:

"A 37-year-old dad was stabbed to death in front of his 3-year-old daughter and fiancée outside a Starbucks in Canada after he asked the attacker not to vape in front of his child, his family said."

My daughter and son-in-law recently spoke with a child psychologist and he told them there has been an explosion in the number of young children with anxiety and other behavioral problems. A friend told me her daughter, who is in her early 30s, and all her daughter's friends are on medication for anxiety. Our society is in trouble and it breaks my heart to see the damage being done to young people.
Click to expand...
That's why it's not wise to confront a stranger. You never know who you're dealing with or how they'll react.
In that situation, I would just move, instead of risking.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-rage-shooting-mother-gave-driver-finger.html

A family in California have appealed for anyone with information about the fatal shooting of a six-year-old boy to come forward.

Aiden Leos was killed on Friday morning in what authorities believe was incited by road rage as he was being driven by his mother to school. A GoFundMe was established, which has raised over $130,000 for the family.

They spoke at a press conference asking for anyone who knows to come forward. His sister emotionally pleaded for people to come forward.

“Please help us find the people that did this to my little brother. He’s only six and he was so sweet. He was a very loving boy so please help us find who did this to him.” he said to reporters. She spoke about her mother having “to hold her little boy as he died so she is very distraught right now.”


Aiden’s uncle John Cloonan also spoke to the media, saying “You can tell it was a cowardly way of doing it because they shot her in the back pretty much”.

“You have no idea what you took from us today. You took her son away, her boy. This boy was full of love and joy and laughter.” he said.

“I hope someone knows something and that whoever did this, I hope you can see what you’ve done to this family. Not that it matters much now because my nephew is dead. We’re never going to be full again. He continued.

He described how Ms Cloonan “was merging to the right side to get away from the person, and as you can see if you go online and look at the photos, there’s one bullet shot in the trunk that went through the trunk and right through my nephew.”
 
mrstime said:
So you don't mind the death and destruction all around you as long as you get to carry a gun. The framers of the constitution never had a clue about the weaponry that was to come, they also would have been more careful with the wording in the 2nd amendment had they known.
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The thing is, bad people can get guns from various sources within the US and from outside the US. Thousands of guns are smuggled into the US across all of our borders every year. Naturally, they don't register them or get a license to use and carry them, and they get them for one purpose only; to kill people. Anyone who owes them for drugs, anyone who gets in their way while they're using or selling drugs, or stealing people's stuff...anyone. And a lot of these guns find their way to the streets.

If my country can't protect me and my family from those bad people with guns, I will.

And this is a separate issue from legally owned guns that are used by bad people and people with a mental disorder who want to kill. But that problem is also not being addressed by mental health scientists, specialists, and researchers, and state and federal governments. Mental health care in the US is terrible. We should be ahead of other countries, but, from diagnoses to treatment, we totally suck at mental health care.
 
Della said:
...

I think it's the back ground checks that are ridiculous. Of course they conflict with patient confidentiality. The biggest problem with treating severe mental illness is getting the ill person to understand that they need help and should go to a psychiatrist.

People with schizophrenia, in particular, are paranoid so they are afraid to get help because they think the government will start to control them. These background checks would prove them right! Just imagine having every yahoo selling guns at the flea market knowing who is seeing a psychiatrist in their town. Would it prevent gun deaths ? NO! What it would do is prevent mentally ill people from getting care.

Statistics show that people with severe mental illness who are seeing a doctor and taking medication are actually less likely to be violent than the average person. It's the sick people who aren't seeing a doctor who are dangerous and background checks wont show this.

The NRA just loves having us voting for background checks, it keeps us distracted while they sell just as many guns.
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I disagree 100%.
 
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Jules said:
Her parents only knew about the one gun and they made her sell it. She had the other ones hidden.
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I hear what you are saying here but there could be something very wrong in that household. Enabling? Denial? At her age living with the parents. The parents could have done a search. They knew about a gun and some kind of mental health issue.

I get it's not unusual, especially in these economic times, with kids staying with parents. But it's often temporary.

I couldn't wait to get out of that house. What was keeping this individual there?
 
Remy said:
I hear what you are saying here but there could be something very wrong in that household. Enabling? Denial? At her age living with the parents. The parents could have done a search. They knew about a gun and some kind of mental health issue.

I get it's not unusual, especially in these economic times, with kids staying with parents. But it's often temporary.

I couldn't wait to get out of that house. What was keeping this individual there.
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Living at home is one thing but the adult kid has enough money for hobbies wether it's guns, tvs, fancy cars they don't need to live at home. It's one thing if a kid is really trying to save money or is going to school but buying alot of any optional item should be a flag the kid is playing you.

Did she even contribute to the house with money or labor?
 
Murrmurr said:
The thing is, bad people can get guns from various sources within the US and from outside the US. Thousands of guns are smuggled into the US across all of our borders every year. Naturally, they don't register them or get a license to use and carry them, and they get them for one purpose only; to kill people. Anyone who owes them for drugs, anyone who gets in their way while they're using or selling drugs, or stealing people's stuff...anyone. And a lot of these guns find their way to the streets.

If my country can't protect me and my family from those bad people with guns, I will.

And this is a separate issue from legally owned guns that are used by bad people and people with a mental disorder who want to kill. But that problem is also not being addressed by mental health scientists, specialists, and researchers, and state and federal governments. Mental health care in the US is terrible. We should be ahead of other countries, but, from diagnoses to treatment, we totally suck at mental health care.he
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, too many of the guns in the US get smuggled into Canada, it seems that every time there is a mass shooting in the US the guns were legally purchased. Here if there is a shooting too often the gun was smuggled in from the US.
 
SeniorBen said:
The shooter wrote a manifesto. If the police ever release it to the public, that will answer the question: why? Until then, we can only speculate.
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Tough choice.

If it's a released the cowardly killer gets one last word and other potential mass murderers seeking infamy will also write one. But transparency is just as important as trying to manage something that probably can't be especially when talking speech. It might validate someone's existing 'plan' as much as would put ideas in their head.
 
WhatInThe said:
Living at home is one thing but the adult kid has enough money for hobbies wether it's guns, tvs, fancy cars they don't need to live at home. It's one thing if a kid is really trying to save money or is going to school but buying alot of any optional item should be a flag the kid is playing you.

Did she even contribute to the house with money or labor?
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Agreed. And that's a good question. Could this individual hold a job? Some people literally can't.
 
I see a lot of younger people in her age bracket 25-30 with a really bad attitude in general. I don't think it was the virus/lockdowns either. They literally hang around all day doing drugs, playing games etc. Their attitude is that of an angry person. By mid 20s most are out of that teenage rebel phase, don't give two hoots about their early school years because they are out, literally out of the house living life, working, continuing education etc. But others hang around like someone owes them something.
 
Remy said:
Agreed. And that's a good question. Could this individual hold a job? Some people literally can't.
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I see a lot of younger people in her age bracket 25-30 with a really bad attitude in general. I don't think it was the virus/lockdowns either. They literally hang around all day doing drugs, playing games etc. Their attitude is that of an angry person. By mid 20s most are out of that teenage rebel phase, don't give two hoots about their early school years because they are out, literally out of the house living life, working, continuing education etc. But others hang around like someone owes them something.
 


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