Self-Defense Goes Awry Without a Firearm!

I

imp

Senior Member
And I thought the Danes were a pretty straight-thinking society. imp

"Why Teen Who Fended Off Attacker Now Faces Charges Herself"

"A 17-year-old girl who was attacked by a man in a city center at night told police that he knocked her to the ground and unbuttoned her pants, trying to undress her, but she turned on him with pepper spray and was able to escape. Her assailant fled and hasn’t been caught, but the victim is facing legal consequences."

“It is illegal to possess and use pepper spray, so she will likely be charged for that,” local police spokesman Knud Kirsten of Sønderborg, Denmark, told TV Syd about the incident, which occurred at 10 p.m. on Jan. 20. Her fine will be around 500 kroner ($73), and many commenters on TV Syd’s story have offered to pay it for her."
"According to the Local, the backlash against the fine also has to do with the fact that the assault took place near a migrant asylum center. Although it’s not known whether the perpetrator was an asylum seeker or refugee, there has been a spike this month in the number of local women reporting harassment by male residents of the center.
In the U.S., pepper spray, or “self-defense spray,” is legal in all states, but there are restrictions on sizes and strengths in some areas. Most states with limited use specify that people must be non-felons over the age of 18 to purchase the sprays."
 

I don't care about the use of the pepper spray. Maybe her Danish lawyers can plea bargan it down to a possession charge. She gets charged with a fine or her parents get charged with a funeral or hospital bill. Door number one please.
 
Difficult and Slippery Slope

"Door number one please."

Use of means of lethal force carries with it in the self defense arena a terrible mental burden, as well as raises issues normally not thought about. Some thug appears suddenly, confronting you, making demands, moving very quickly, obviously armed: talk him down? Ridiculous thought. Run? Maybe shot or stabbed in the back. Blow that whistle you carry with you? Good luck with that!

If you truly fear your life is in danger, self-defense law allows use of lethal force. If you can react in time, and kill the perp, your immediate concern, preservation of life, is resolved; but, other, unimaginably complex troubles will inevitably begin to present.

imp
 
imp said:
"Door number one please."

Use of means of lethal force carries with it in the self defense arena a terrible mental burden, as well as raises issues normally not thought about. Some thug appears suddenly, confronting you, making demands, moving very quickly, obviously armed: talk him down? Ridiculous thought. Run? Maybe shot or stabbed in the back. Blow that whistle you carry with you? Good luck with that!

If you truly fear your life is in danger, self-defense law allows use of lethal force. If you can react in time, and kill the perp, your immediate concern, preservation of life, is resolved; but, other, unimaginably complex troubles will inevitably begin to present.

imp
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For some. It depends upon whether they are sheep or wolves.

It's like the distinction (mine, anyway) between a "soldier" and a "warrior". A soldier does their duty, but after shooting an enemy and seeing the results they lose it. Their brain just isn't wired to accept the fact that they've killed another human being. This is probably 95% of the population.

But a warrior? They can resolve any emotions about killing the enemy. They can justify in their own minds that it is kill or be killed.

Same on the streets here. I would guess that 95% of the civilian population would have some form of PTSD after a potentially lethal street encounter.

But the remaining 5%? Bring it on, punk!
 
Has she actually been fined?

now she may be the one who ends up in legal trouble.
“It is illegal to possess and use pepper spray, so she will likely be charged for that,” local police spokesman Knud Kirsten told TV Syd.
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A lot of frothing going on about something that very likely is not going to happen.
Wake me when she is actually fined for using/possessing pepper spray.
 
Europe, and especially Germany, are on the doorstep of major problems with this influx of "refugees". The New Years Eve problems in Cologne, are just the start of what may very well become fairly frequent. Cologne has a major carnival coming and there may have to be a major police presence to avoid a repeat of NY Eve.

http://www.voanews.com/content/cologne-attacks-boost-immigrant-foes-in-germany/3163418.html

Angela Merkels "social experiment" may cost Germany dearly.
 
SifuPhil said:
......Same on the streets here. I would guess that 95% of the civilian population would have some form of PTSD after a potentially lethal street encounter.
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This is exactly why self defense instructors, not the martial arts type, but rather firearms self defense, take much time to predetermine each applicant's ability to understand and adhere to the very stringent mindset necessary to ensure that, should that one in a lifetime present itself, fight (shoot), and remain alive and relatively unscathed, the means taught will be employed, no matter what, when, or where.

The other side of the successful self-defense event where the adversary is not killed, but rather maimed, the defending individual will be faced with an onslaught of litigation, just as was Bernhard Goetz. He was set upon by muggers several times (New York City, I believe), finally against his own better judgment, illegally bought a revolver and began carrying it on the subway he rode every day. Three muggers wielding sharpened screwdrivers as weapons demanded his money. Instead he shot them. I think they wound up charging him with illegal possession only. But the punk spending the rest of his miserable days in a wheelchair? Family sued Goetz. The moral is: One, he could have given them his money and MAYBE remained unharmed (or injured or dead), or two, he could have displayed his gun and run them off. That option would have left them intact to prey upon others on another day of crime, a fact Goetz mentioned in court. imp
 
Yep - if you legally carry a gun - or even illegally, I suppose - you have to realize that who you point it at will have a high likelihood of dying.

Bernie got off easy - I got 3 months in County for defending myself, unarmed, against 3 punks with weapons. I'm still bitter about that, 12 years later.
 
I don't know what self-defense law ais where the girl lives -- she's not in the US.Wherever it is, pepper spray shouldn't be illegal, IMO. How's a woman supposed to defend herself?? OR is she just expected to submit? Shameful.
 
So Butterfly, are you allowed to carry it? I just looked it up and in Canada we can't. Not legal which I think is crazy. And if someone uses the stuff to do a robbery, at least the victim might be alive at the end of it, and then you catch the robber and charge him for using it (along with other things) but if a woman uses it when she's being raped, than she has a chance of escaping, nobody has to get killed and mostly she'll just have had a chance to get away.
 
As always there are drawbacks to any self-defense weapon, and pepper spray is no exception.

First, the majority of what is sold to the public is cheap, weak spray. You need to find police- or military-grade CS.

Second, there are a few folks that can take a faceful of pepper spray and laugh. They think it's breath spray.

Third, there is always the danger of having the spray taken from you and turned against you.

Those points being known, it's still an excellent defensive weapon.
 
SifuPhil said:
Yep - if you legally carry a gun - or even illegally, I suppose - you have to realize that who you point it at will have a high likelihood of dying.

Bernie got off easy - I got 3 months in County for defending myself, unarmed, against 3 punks with weapons. I'm still bitter about that, 12 years later.
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Well that doesn't sound right but I would bet that there are a million plus stories where 'justice' was a travesty you know? Sorry to hear that you're one of those stories Phil :( and I hope that the bitter moments aren't too frequent. After all, you do have Senior Forum to come to in order to waste some time, chat up a storm, entertain and generally speaking, give real meaning to your life right :)?
 
Debby said:
So Butterfly, are you allowed to carry it? I just looked it up and in Canada we can't. Not legal which I think is crazy. And if someone uses the stuff to do a robbery, at least the victim might be alive at the end of it, and then you catch the robber and charge him for using it (along with other things) but if a woman uses it when she's being raped, than she has a chance of escaping, nobody has to get killed and mostly she'll just have had a chance to get away.
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See, here is where we differ in our thinking. You seem to favor a vicious criminal being better off by not being disposed of during the commission of a heinous act? If he escapes, or is minimally sentenced, the likelihood of repeat criminal activity is statistically very high. Once a criminal always a criminal, is well established more often than not. Rehabilitate? How effective is it? Time and time again, incarcerees polled about their planned future habits when freed, admit they likely will return to criminal activity, and be very careful about getting caught again. imp
 
Debby said:
So Butterfly, are you allowed to carry it? I just looked it up and in Canada we can't. Not legal which I think is crazy. And if someone uses the stuff to do a robbery, at least the victim might be alive at the end of it, and then you catch the robber and charge him for using it (along with other things) but if a woman uses it when she's being raped, than she has a chance of escaping, nobody has to get killed and mostly she'll just have had a chance to get away.
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Pepper spray is legal here, Mace is not. My son bought it for me several years ago after I had an unpleasant encounter with a crazy in a parking lot after work.
 
Debby said:
Well that doesn't sound right but I would bet that there are a million plus stories where 'justice' was a travesty you know? Sorry to hear that you're one of those stories Phil :( and I hope that the bitter moments aren't too frequent. After all, you do have Senior Forum to come to in order to waste some time, chat up a storm, entertain and generally speaking, give real meaning to your life right :)?
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When you put it that way ... I suppose so.

Although if the sum total of my life's hopes, dreams and ambitions has turned out to be posting pics like this -

57eae7dfa4637211bc.jpg

... then I'm a pretty sorry excuse of a human being ... :rolleyes:
 
Bluecheese50 said:
It would appear so as they have such a terrible problem where guns are concerned!
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As has been mentioned in other threads the problem with guns here has been greatly misrepresented by the media. Our gun crime rate is actually falling, but the statistics are manipulated to make it appear that people are running berserk in the streets shooting each other.

School crime as an example - it is actually safer to be in schools than it was in the '70's and '80's, but to hear the press tell it schools are the new Wild West.
 
I always carry a small canister of pepper spray that fits in my pocket. I have never had to use it, but a few years ago while running, a dog up the street almost got his comeuppance. I buy it at Walmart and toss it every year for a fresh one. It's not necessarily needed to do, but I like to have a fresh one just in case.
 
oldman said:
I always carry a small canister of pepper spray that fits in my pocket. I have never had to use it, but a few years ago while running, a dog up the street almost got his comeuppance. I buy it at Walmart and toss it every year for a fresh one. It's not necessarily needed to do, but I like to have a fresh one just in case.
Click to expand...

Well don't bring it to the UK, you could be arrested for just carrying pepper spray, let alone using it.
 

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