Sex, Dementia ad Husband on Trial at age 78 - what are your thoughts in this

C

caregiverrelief

New Member
Here is an article that I read this morning-

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/14/h...husband-henry-rayhons-on-trial-at-age-78.html

I can tell you,as a nurse, this is always an issue. I have had families tell me, of situations, where they knew that the parents were still having sex, but, felt that the female, did not know what was going on. I find, that when it happens at home, families ignore these issues.

In the nursing homes, This is also an issue. With dementia, there are many times, when a person with dementia ( male or female) is sexually attracted or even active in pursuing sexual activity.
 

There is something creepy about that old guy, and it is questionable if she had any clue to what was going on...
 

I've heard its quite usual for nursing home residents to pair up and find romance in their facilities. After all, they are there in the same place. However, I find it difficult to believe that dementia patients are always willing participants.
 
Being touched is one thing, but the old boy coming in to satisfy his needs, perhaps, is another. Maybe it is just me, but demented sex creeps me out, perhaps it is an issue for therapy with Shalimar; I'll put it on my extensive list of issues...
 
One thing we have to remember... The old and even the demented are ADULTS.. I think that fact is sometimes lost in that their behavior can be childlike. If sexual contact is consensual and private.. we need to afford them their privacy. I don't think we can make assumptions on whether or not someone knows what they are doing.
 
Consensual? They would probably consent to a lot of things that might not be appropriate and outright violating their individual dignity...
 
Ralphy1 said:
Consensual? They would probably consent to a lot of things that might not be appropriate and outright violating their individual dignity...
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But you don't know that... Unless someone has been declared incompetent by the court.. we cannot make assumptions.. You must keep in mind... people in nursing homes are NOT in the hospital.. they are in their home... They are not patients... they are residents.. Do you have the right to behave how you wish in your home? That's all I am saying..
 
Sorry, but it just seems that the poor thing can't say, "Not today, Dear, I have a headache.",,,
 
Well, if I was in that state of dementia I would consider myself a poor thing if I was capable of considering...
 
I consider my body a temple and impure thoughts a horrible sin. I also am the guy who built the Empire State building in a week!!! Of Course, there's a Santa and don't get me started on the tooth fairy.:)
 
Ralphy1 said:
Sorry, but it just seems that the poor thing can't say, "Not today, Dear, I have a headache.",,,
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I agree with you Ralphy. I think it would have been nice if he held her hand, talked to her and kissed her goodnight
rather than having sex with her while another patient was on the other side of the curtain!
I think the old guy should be charged. Seems to me he was thinking of himself and not his ailing wife.


My Mom was in a nursing home for 7 years with dementia so I spent a lot of time visiting there.
I never heard of anything like that going on.
Most dementia patients love to hear music, especially songs they loved in years gone by.
When there was music and singing my mother and the other patients would brighten up and enjoyed the
entertainment very much.
 
Maybe she initiated the intimacy? That 'poor thing' might have had a good strong libido that didn't stop when she forgot what a sock was. I think if her demeanour and mood before and after the 'events' was still happy and not stressed, that might be a more sensible way to decide if this was a wrong thing to do then our notions of what is proper and acceptable.
 
caregiverrelief said:
Here is an article that I read this morning-

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/14/h...husband-henry-rayhons-on-trial-at-age-78.html

I can tell you,as a nurse, this is always an issue. I have had families tell me, of situations, where they knew that the parents were still having sex, but, felt that the female, did not know what was going on. I find, that when it happens at home, families ignore these issues.

In the nursing homes, This is also an issue. With dementia, there are many times, when a person with dementia ( male or female) is sexually attracted or even active in pursuing sexual activity.



I would like to know your thoughts
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Good article and I think it makes a lot of sense. There was a Canadian movie years ago called 'Away From Her' with Julie Christie and Gordon Pinsent that was just such a scenario as your article described where the husband placed his wife in a care home and there she ultimately fell in love with another resident and I think began to consider the new 'lover' as her husband. It was sweet and very sad as he struggled deeply with the change he saw happening.
 
In a RIGHTEOUS society old people with dementia do not have the RIGHT to do something that might seem RIGHT to them, but not to the religious or political
RIGHT.

:eek:fftopic:??????
 
Consensual sex implies that the demented woman consented. I know that my wife who is seriously demented would not be capable of consenting and I believe that her only remaining passion involves food. I found the story off-putting.
 
This is just CRAZY! Do older people lose their right to intimacy??? How in blazes is this anyone's business except the couple's??? We now lose our right to the pursuit of happiness at a certain AGE??

How dare a third party (including her daughters) step in and tell a married couple how to conduct (or not to conduct) their sex life? And that attorney general pursuing this matter has some kind of weird agenda -- he is nothing but an officious intermeddler (as are the daughters). I'm outraged!
 
I think if my husband had Alzheimer's I would be most concerned with showing him tenderness and love, that I cared, and sex would probably not even be on my mind. It would be strange to have a sexual act like that, not knowing if the other person really is wanting it or enjoying it. Hard to tell if she was really accepting of the sex, or just tolerated it because she had no choice, or couldn't verbalize either way.

When I first read this thread, I immediately thought that it was husband and wife, and nobody else should have a say in what went on. But then when I read that it wasn't a private room, others were present and things may have been caught on camera, it seemed more creepy to me. However, legal charges seem to be a bit extreme if there was no sign of physical abuse.

Tough call on this one. The husband does seem creepy just visiting for self gratification as it appears. I don't have any personal experience with dementia, so I don't know if I'd enjoy the intimacy or be unsettled by it. If it was my husband, I think he would hold me and kiss me, and assure me of his love, leaving his physical pleasuring out of it.
 
Dame Warrigal said:
From what I read I can't see a problem.
I'm thinking the daughters are from a first marriage and are being a bit possessive of their mother.
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Unless there is some other information I'm missing, I'm with you on this one. The most absurd case bringing charges against this man in my opinion and I know real abuse, this doesn't sound even close. Should he have used better judgment, maybe, sometimes in cases where a person has Alzheimer's, family often times convince themselves the person is cognitive even if they've been deemed not to be. This happens in almost all families when these people slip in and out of their illness and have moments when, they seem to remember and only seconds or minutes later, they haven't any idea of anything and the person visiting will lose hope again, but for a moment, they felt connected. Who knows what went on between these two on their visits, did he more often than not just sit with her and hold her, did this time she want more and he obliged, did he just want to feel more connected, maybe that was a way in which they always felt greatly connected, may not be our way, but it might have been special to them. I don't know. I just think from what I read, it sounds a bit excessive charge him, unless they have some more details to share that would explain the reason for the arrest that I'm not getting than a man who dearly misses the closeness of his wife decides to use poor judgement with said wife, constitutes a crime of the century..
 
Should he have used better judgment, maybe, sometimes in cases where a person has Alzheimer's, family often times convince themselves the person is cognitive even if they've been deemed not to be.
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I completely agree with this statement.. Yes.. I think he should have used better judgment... particularly with another Resident in the same room... But, I don't think he committed any crime, and certainly... charging him with one was absurd. What happened to the marriage vows people take? Isn't there a clause stating "In sickness and in health?" I don't see the type of sicknesses detailed, nor do I see.. "except with dementia" as an exception.
 
The poor old girl probably just thought it was some attendant pulling down her pants to clean her or change her...
 
Ralphy1 said:
The poor old girl probably just thought it was some attendant pulling down her pants to clean her or change her...
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I have worked on an Alzheimers unit, as well as in nursing homes. These patient's are very capable of being sexual, and know the difference.
 

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