Shooting at First Baptist chuch in TX

chic

chic

SF VIP
Location
U.S.
There was a shooting at the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs? TX. just outside of San Antonio TX. Population 630. Two dozen people are dead/injured. The shooter is dead. It's unknown if this is a hate crime or an act of terrorism.

How terribly sad for all in this small town.
 

Update: 20 are dead and two dozen injured. It's unknown if automatic weapons were used. This is breaking news.
 
A gunman opened fire inside a rural Texas church on Sunday, killing about 25 people and injuring at least another 10, officials said.

"Approximately 25 people" were deceased, including the gunman, following the shooting at First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Wilson County Sheriff Joe Tackett told NBC News.


There was no information regarding the motivation behind the shooting, he added.


A single shooter walked into the church and opened fire, Wilson County Commissioner Albert Gamez Jr. said earlier Sunday.


(more)

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/several-casualties-reported-texas-church-shooting-n817751
 
The 14 year old daughter of the minister and his wife is also among the slain. It's scary to think people can't even go to church anymore without risking their lives.
 
RadishRose said:
We can't go to school, biking, the movies, concerts, shopping centers, not even to church without fearing for our lives. Not just here, but all over the globe. This world has gone mad!

Texas Church Shooting Leaves at Least 25 Dead, Official SaysNew York Times 16m ago
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Not all over the globe. That statement is a deflection.
Our last massacre was in 1996, after which we tightened up our gun ownership laws.
We haven't had one since then.

https://www.news-mail.com.au/news/nation-bullets-worst-5-mass-shootings-us/3258087/

How many days since Las Vegas? Was it even one month?

https://www.seniorforums.com/showthread.php/32262-Next-massacre-coming-up
 
There seems to be a pattern here.

From Twitter, not fact checked.

Aurora: AR-15
Orlando: AR-15
Las Vegas: AR-15
Sandy Hook: AR-15
Umpqua CC: AR-15
San Bernardino: AR-15
Sutherland Springs: AR-15
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I wonder what the tally was for each one?

In case anyone thinks that I am being hard hearted, I post this tweet, which is something I agree with 100%:

Posted by a US Senator who shall be anonymous to avoid politicising:
Keeping all harmed in Sutherland Springs in our prayers and grateful for our brave first responders on the scene.

The response from a member of the public:
People killed WHILE praying deserve more than prayers alone. They deserve a Senator with the everyday courage to put lives before NRA cash.
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He was dishonorably discharged from the military in 2012 for assaulting his wife and child. Why did he pass a background check for purchasing a weapon?
 
Just another nut by the sounds of it....

The Texas church shooter who mercilessly shot dead 26 people and injured 24 others was an 'outcast' who 'preached his atheism' online.
Former classmates say Devin Patrick Kelley, 26, who stormed First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs in Texas and opened fire on Sunday, was 'creepy', 'crazy' and 'weird'.




http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5053013/Devin-Kelley-outcast-preached-atheism.html
 
Warrigal said:
Already false information is being disseminated about the shooter. While the police have not yet commented on the motive, be aware that the story going around that he is a communist member of Antifa is quite false.

https://www.snopes.com/texas-church-shooter-antifa/
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Unfortunately Snopes is no more privy to info on the shooter than anyone else at this point.

It would be the ultimate disinformation tactic to disavow that he was Antifa. It wouldn't fit into the social commentary in our society at this point if it were true.
 
chic said:
He was dishonorably discharged from the military in 2012 for assaulting his wife and child. Why did he pass a background check for purchasing a weapon?
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I think the answer to that is that the background checks are inadequate. How long does it take to buy a gun?
In Australia it takes a month to obtain a licence to own a firearm and during that time a very thorough background check can take place.
 
Warrigal said:
Already false information is being disseminated about the shooter. While the police have not yet commented on the motive, be aware that the story going around that he is a communist member of Antifa is quite false.

https://www.snopes.com/texas-church-shooter-antifa/
Click to expand...

I just finished reading a book called "Antifa: What Americans Need to Know about the Alt-Left". I don't think most Americans understand what that organization is or is all about. Our "news sources" are typically too biased, political, and/or ignorant to get things like that right until after they have tried to use whatever has happened to get the results they want. Antifa has a history going back to street fights between Communists and Nationalists in European countries roughly a hundred years back. They are the Communist factor and while they are more complicated than this, what you need to understand is they don't want the USA to exist... they also believe they have the right to accomplish their goals through any means necessary and that only they have the freedom to speak. I'm not saying they had anything to do with this, only they do function as a terrorist organization so you can't just dismiss the possibility that they might be involved. I wouldn't dismiss any terrorist type organization in this until more facts come out.
 
SifuPhil said:
Unfortunately Snopes is no more privy to info on the shooter than anyone else at this point.

It would be the ultimate disinformation tactic to disavow that he was Antifa. It wouldn't fit into the social commentary in our society at this point if it were true.
Click to expand...

Snopes doesn't claim to know his motive but from the police reports they have refuted certain claims.

The claims that Snopes is declaring false:

The gunman who opened fire inside a church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, has been identified as Devin Kelley, an Antifa member who vowed to start a civil war by “targeting white conservative churches” and causing anarchy in the United States.
Devin Kelley, who killed at least 27 people and injured many more, was one of two shooters in the church, according to eyewitnesses, who also report Kelley carried an Antifa flag and told the churchgoers “this is a communist revolution” before unloading on the congregation, reloading several times.
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Snopes response:

As of this writing little is known about Devin Kelley or his motivation for attacking a church, but neither police nor any reputable news organization has offered a desire “to start a civil war by targeting white conservative churches” as a motive for the shooting, nor reported that Kelley carried an Antifa flag and told churchgoers that he was participating in “a communist revolution”:

Preliminary news reports suggested instead that Kelley might have had a personal connection to one or more persons at the church he targeted:

U.S. Rep. Henry Cuellar (D-Texas), who was briefed by investigators, said the shooter’s motive was not immediately clear, but he said, “I’ve been talking to some community members. They think there was a relative there. It was not random … There’s going to be some sort of nexus between the shooter and this small community … Somebody in that church will help us find answers.”

I find this response and the assessment of the Antifa claim as false to be a logical conclusion.
I will happily eat my words if the authorities find an actual connection with between the shooter and Antifa and/or communism. The authorities have indicated that he was an avid collector of firearms based on a search of his premises.



​
 
Warrigal said:
Snopes doesn't claim to know his motive but from the police reports they have refuted certain claims.


Snopes response:

As of this writing little is known about Devin Kelley or his motivation for attacking a church, but neither police nor any reputable news organization has offered a desire “to start a civil war by targeting white conservative churches” as a motive for the shooting, nor reported that Kelley carried an Antifa flag and told churchgoers that he was participating in “a communist revolution”:

Preliminary news reports suggested instead that Kelley might have had a personal connection to one or more persons at the church he targeted:

U.S. Rep. Henry Cuellar (D-Texas), who was briefed by investigators, said the shooter’s motive was not immediately clear, but he said, “I’ve been talking to some community members. They think there was a relative there. It was not random … There’s going to be some sort of nexus between the shooter and this small community … Somebody in that church will help us find answers.”

I find this response and the assessment of the Antifa claim as false to be a logical conclusion.
I will happily eat my words if the authorities find an actual connection with between the shooter and Antifa and/or communism. The authorities have indicated that he was an avid collector of firearms based on a search of his premises.

​
Click to expand...

According to (I think it was) The Daily Mail he had posted on social media about how "anyone who believed in God was stupid". Perhaps that is where the idea that he was a Communist came from.

If he were indeed a member of Antifa, I would think that his membership would be a difficult thing to ascertain. The structure of terrorist organizations usually depends first of all upon secrecy.

I agree that the flag-waving thing sounds a bit suspect at this point.
 

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