Shooting at First Baptist chuch in TX

I do not detect bias in the parts that I have quoted from the Snopes link. Let's wait now for the official reports from the authorities before accepting the story about an Antifa flag and threats to start a civil war by attacking white conservative churches. It could just be a grudge against family by a very violent man with a deadly weapon.
 

Warrigal said:
I do not detect bias in the parts that I have quoted from the Snopes link. Let's wait now for the official reports from the authorities before accepting the story about an Antifa flag and threats to start a civil war by attacking white conservative churches. It could just be a grudge against family by a very violent man with a deadly weapon.
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That's where I fail. I cannot understand a mind that takes out so many innocents when they have a grudge against one or two people. Take those one or two out, okay, I can understand crimes of passion. But innocents? Children? What part of the mind fails and allows that to happen?
 
chic said:
He was dishonorably discharged from the military in 2012 for assaulting his wife and child. Why did he pass a background check for purchasing a weapon?
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Background checks are a variable thing. They ask if you have a criminal record, are a fugitive from justice or addicted to something. I believe there's also a section for military service, and evidently if he was the purchaser of the guns his court-martial didn't get flagged. If there's no paper trail (he supposedly didn't have so much as a parking ticket) then the application will go through.
 

I pray for all the victims families in this senseless loss of life.
There have been times after these recent killings,I wish I could go back to my childhood in the mid 50's,early 60's when the world wasn't so violent,stay for awhile,and I felt safe. Sue
 
According to CNN Facebook

Kelley purchased the Ruger AR-556 rifle in April 2016 from an Academy Sports & Outdoors store in San Antonio, a law enforcement official told CNN.

When Kelley filled out the background check paperwork at the store, he checked the box to indicate he didn't have disqualifying criminal history, the official said. He listed an address in Colorado Springs, Colorado when he bought the rifle, the official said.
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If this is a background check, it is a joke.

For me to be a volunteer member of a management committee for our church childcare centre I had to have a national police check and present myself with photo ID. This clearance has to be renewed every five years.

To buy a semi automatic rifle, all you have to do is tick a few boxes? As I said, that is laughable... and totally useless.
 
A bit more background on the shooter

... the police have obtained information regarding Devin Patrick Kelley’s military service. According to Fox News, he served in the U.S. Air Force and was stationed at Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico. He served for four years from 2010 to 2014 in the logistic readiness unit.
The chief of Air Force media operations, Ann Stefanek also released an official statement regarding Devin Patrick Kelley and his service history. In the statement, the U.S. Air Force stated that he was a problematic serviceman.
Within two years after he entered the service, in 2012, Devin Patrick Kelley was court-martialed and charged with two counts of assault on his wife and children. He was later confined for 12 months and got a demotion. Later on, the Air Force discharged him for a bad conduct.

In his latest employment history, Devin Patrick Kelley was registered as a security guard in a Texas waterpark last summer. He resided in New Braunfels, Texas, around 35 miles from Sutherland Springs.

Devin Patrick Kelley was born on Feb. 21, 1991, and he was still married to Danielle Lee Shields. His mother-in-law is registered as a resident of Sutherland Springs. However, police investigators are still searching to find his motive for the massacre, as they did not find his connection to a global terrorist network. The investigation will dig deeper into his social media activities to find out about his real motives.

After firing his Ruger AR assault rifle at people inside the church, Devin Patrick Kelley took off. His shooting spree killed 26 people and injured 20. He was later found dead after he crashed his car at the Wilson-Guadalupe county line.

It is still unclear about his motive to conduct the deadliest mass shooting at a church in history. Police and law enforcement officials are still investigating Devin Patrick Kelley and his background.

https://www.inquisitr.com/4600934/w...-shooting-gunman-devin-patrick-kelley-so-far/
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Warrigal said:
I do not detect bias in the parts that I have quoted from the Snopes link. Let's wait now for the official reports from the authorities before accepting the story about an Antifa flag and threats to start a civil war by attacking white conservative churches. It could just be a grudge against family by a very violent man with a deadly weapon.
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My comment about Snopes was general. It's political so I'll drop it there. No one knows for sure yet but like the President said, "the TX church massacre is not a gun issue, it's a mental issue".
 
SifuPhil said:
That's where I fail. I cannot understand a mind that takes out so many innocents when they have a grudge against one or two people. Take those one or two out, okay, I can understand crimes of passion. But innocents? Children? What part of the mind fails and allows that to happen?
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A combo of one or more or all of these causes will create thoughts of mass murder: psychopathic, sociopathic, schizophrenic, drugs/alcohol/caffeine(aiding paranoia and anxiety).

Our nation needs to focus on fixing our mental health system. It's not working. I know. I tried to help someone just 6 months ago who told me "I want to kill a lot of people in a church like that kid in SC". He was in withdrawal as he was coming off a drug at the time that he was given for free on the streets. He also has symptoms of the several diagnoses I mentioned above.

The mental health place I took him to turned him away because he wouldn't admit he needs help. They aren't going to admit it. He didn't think anything was wrong with him. The facility wouldn't listen to me because he's an adult. That's part of the symptom of the addiction and disease. Denial. That's not the only thing I've done to get him help. Each time, I hit a brick wall for the same reason. Opiods are out of control in our country. That's half the problem.

nvtribefan...yes I have proof of snopes being bias, but like I said, it's political and I can't go there. You can PM me if you want to know.
 
Lara said:
A combo of one or more or all of these causes will create thoughts of mass murder: psychopathic, sociopathic, schizophrenic, drugs/alcohol/caffeine(aiding paranoia and anxiety).

Our nation needs to focus on fixing our mental health system. It's not working. I know. I tried to help someone just 6 months ago who told me "I want to kill a lot of people in a church like that kid in SC". He was in withdrawal as he was coming off a drug at the time that he was given for free on the streets. He also has symptoms of the several diagnoses I mentioned above.

The mental health place I took him to turned him away because he wouldn't admit he needs help. They aren't going to admit it. He didn't think anything was wrong with him. The facility wouldn't listen to me because he's an adult. That's part of the symptom of the addiction and disease. Denial. That's not the only thing I've done to get him help. Each time, I hit a brick wall for the same reason. Opiods are out of control in our country. That's half the problem.

nvtribefan...yes I have proof of snopes being bias, but like I said, it's political and I can't go there. You can PM me if you want to know.
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I believe involuntary commitment laws vary from state to state - certainly the numbers have gone down over the years. Emergency detention (through the police) might be a possibility in the case you mentioned, which might then lead to involuntary confinement depending upon how professionals diagnose him.
 
"Opioids are out of control in our country." Also psychotropic drugs. They are over prescribed and misused.
 
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Thank you Phil. I have definitely thought of the police. In fact, I took him myself to a lock down mental health center where the police were and were guarding the door...but the intake officer determined he wasn't a threat to society because he wasn't telling them the same thing he said to me. I looked online at comments about the facility and they all agreed that it was understaffed, the patients were all grouped together and everyone was released a week or two later without adequate help, and sometimes worse. Our mental health system is a mess. I'm sure some areas are much better than others.
 
Lara said:
Thank you Phil. I have definitely thought of the police. In fact, I took him myself to a lock down mental health center where the police were and were guarding the door...but the intake officer determined he wasn't a threat to society because he wasn't telling them the same thing he said to me. I looked online at comments about the facility and they all agreed that it was understaffed, the patients were all grouped together and everyone was released a week or two later without adequate help, and sometimes worse. Our mental health system is a mess. I'm sure some areas are much better than others.
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That's a damned shame. I wonder if that intake officer had any training at all in mental health triage. The fact that they're understaffed probably did play into it.

I agree that our mental health system is a mess. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any quick solution, especially with the financial cutbacks.

I think it's also the nature of the problem that when you have someone who presents as normal, only to act-out suddenly for no apparent reason, it's pretty much impossible to talk about prevention or treatment strategies.
 
A person has to want help in order to be helped. HIPPA policy makes it illegal to share patient information with anyone so if the patient says to the mental health provider, "there's nothing wrong with me, I don't need help" then that's the end of it. They're released unless it's a police arrest situation. By that time it's often too late for the victim(s).
 
Hi in-laws and ex wife had been members of the church congregation he attacked so maybe this was a personal statement? In TX you don't require a license to purchase a gun? I guess background checks don't matter to them and possibly would not help, but he was court martialed and spent a year confined for his crimes of committing assault on his wife and child. Sorry but I see red flags everywhere with this guy.
 
I heard the TX governor say this morning that the shooter was denied a gun permit in TX and are now looking into where and how he got the gun.
 
News reports have stated that he received a bad conduct discharge, not a dishonorable discharge. The latter is the equivalent of a felony, but the former is a misdemeanor.

There is no compelling evidence to support any particular motive at this time.
 
Lara said:
I heard the TX governor say this morning that the shooter was denied a gun permit in TX and are now looking into where and how he got the gun.
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There may be a Texas law that denies a concealed carry permit, the only permit that Texas has, to an individual who has a bad conduct discharge.
 
Warrigal said:
I think the answer to that is that the background checks are inadequate. How long does it take to buy a gun?
In Australia it takes a month to obtain a licence to own a firearm and during that time a very thorough background check can take place.
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Military records are sealed and would not be available in a background check. If he had been arrested and charged by civilian authorities, that information would have shown up.
 
Lara said:
My comment about Snopes was general. It's political so I'll drop it there. No one knows for sure yet but like the President said, "the TX church massacre is not a gun issue, it's a mental issue".
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I don't agree. It is a gun issue. It's the legal availability of semi automatic weapons which are the weapons of choice in mass murders.

Semi-automatic weapons are designed to kill in as little time as possible.

It's a problem, that is not going to go away any time soon.
 
Warri I had to have a background check every three years to work with people ( Adults) with disabilities .( it took up,to three months for the new clearance to come ) ..and many volunteers have to have police clearances just incase they come into contact with children .

I visited Tasmania 2 years after that horrible massacre in 1996 I can tell you it was very uncomfortable feeling knowing how 35 totally innocent men women and children died there at the hands of a madman ,that resulted in our Australian govement banning guns
 
Big Horn said:
News reports have stated that he received a bad conduct discharge, not a dishonorable discharge. The latter is the equivalent of a felony, but the former is a misdemeanor.

There is no compelling evidence to support any particular motive at this time.
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His in-laws, his ex wife, and his grandmother in law (whom he did kill BTW) sound like motive enough to me. They were all attendees if not regular members of that church.
 
Lara said:
Snopes isn't always correct and is very biased. I don't trust any info from Snopes or Politico. They are paid under the table.
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No apparent bias with Snopes reporting. Some may not like reading reports that contain negative information about their favorite public figure.

Some media either ignores or sugar-coats reporting, Snopes strives to get true accurate information...that is their only mission.
 
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