Should there be broad-based religious teachings?

Pepper said:
The problem, @Verisure seems to lie with your school's No Discipline Policy. This must be addressed before you blame obnoxious KIDS for being obnoxious. Is it legal in Sweden to have parent - teacher conferences? Did you not go to your supervising teacher or administration? I have no idea of school policies in Sweden, could you enlighten me on how problem students are dealt with? Thanks.
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Very sorry but I disagree with you in the strongest possible terms. This is our country, It is our culture. We raise our children to have respect for our language, our culture our history our country and our teachers. Our culture is based upon respect, not on discipline. It is shameful for us to be disrespectful. We don't need disapline other than to be told "You've done wrong."

We have periodical one-on-one teacher/parent meetings plus student progress reports with the parents. "Problem students" as you say generally enrol in a trade school rather than going on to university. But the sort of problem you and I are speaking about is something we've never had before.
 

In this time of political correcteness who would dare to focus on only one or two when there are multiple choices?

Chinese traditional religion[c] 394 million 5%
African traditional religions 100 million[7] 1.2%
Sikhism 26 million 0.30%
Mormonism >16,7 million >0,21%
Judaism 14.7 million[8] 0.18%
Spiritism 14.5 million[9] 0.18%
Baháʼí 5.0 million[10] 0.07%
Jainism 4.2 million 0.05%
Shinto 4.0 million 0.05%
Cao Dai 4.0 million 0.05%
Zoroastrianism 2.6 million 0.03%
Tenrikyo 2.0 million 0.02%
Animism 1.9 million 0.02%
Druze 1.2 million 0.015%
Neo-Paganism 1.0 million 0.01%
Unitarian Universalism 0.8 million 0.01%
Rastafari 0.6 million 0.007%
total 7.79 billion 100%
 
Pepper said:
When I lived in Europe, in this case, England in particular, I soon realized most of Europe would never be able to handle people of color and with different cultural ways. You guys were not set up for that.
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I agree. Europe, in general, is very similar in social appreciation so that we all have a lot in common with one another. We may have north-south-eastern mentalities that differ but we are all on the same page with regards to education and the importance of Democracy. That's the key word ... DEMOCRACY. Whether we are politically to the right, to the left, or in between we all praise Democracy and hold it dear to our hearts.
 

Yes, @Verisure, the U.S. is more like a quilt, or a stew that everyone adds to. Actually, we're a mess, but hopefully people will get together to clean it up.

When I was a child, this neighborhood I'm in was Italian, then became a Holocaust refugee camp. All the immigrants were very anxious to be American. Now, this same neighborhood turned 90% Russian, but as of now has about one-third Muslim, mostly from Yemen and Asian, mostly from China. Overall, they are lovely, hard-working people with great kids. The Russians...............well, that's a different story.

I love most European culture and history. I can understand why you and others want to remain so particular about what was and what is. I am not wishing for it, believe me, but you may be fighting a losing battle.

You said "Our culture is based upon respect" That's a beautiful thing to say.
 
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Verisure said:
I was teaching English, German, and French and my idea of teaching was to help young people get a good education or at least help them as far along the way to their own goals. But, alas! There were three boys in my class, all of them from a similar part of the world and speaking the same language. They had no interest in learning anything and they would just speak in their language just as much as they pleased. I talk with other teachers about the problem and they said it was a common problem and that if you separate them in the classroom they’ll just shout louder so the other ones can hear them. They spoke all the time during my lecture and during reading and writing times. One day they found a ringtone that was like the sound of an atomic bomb and they pushed that button (full volume) any time at all during the whole day and then laughed their fool heads off, thinking it was really funny. You see, in Sweden, you cannot touch the students. You cannot push them. You cannot make them leave the classroom because insurance is such that if anything happens outside of the class it is then your fault. You can only tell (ask) them to settle down but sometimes they tell you “F you!” and call you derogatory names like “F-ing Swedish shit!” There is nothing you can do. As I said I was a teacher’s assistant studying to become a teacher but after that year I gave it up and got a job as a literary translator instead.
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Exactly!:mad:
 
SetWave said:
They are rude, disrespectful, throw things at her, ignore her, come and go from the room as they please and tell she's a woman and they don't have to listen to her. The school does nothing.
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WHY does the school do nothing? Why don't they have a conference about this problem? That's what I don't get.
 
Verisure said:
I feel the same as you about stereotypes and most definitely about racism although I think prejudices are not only OK but good if they are not abused. Still, I may have expressed myself in a way that wasn't precise enough and might have given the wrong impression about my feelings on the subject. Try to understand that Sweden is in a bad way with regards to the migrants and we are frustrated over the government's disregard for what we endure in everyday life. My generation built this country and put us at number one on the World Democracy Index. We are now down to number three (or thereabouts) and falling fast and we are seeing our country and culture being ravaged and destroyed by those who have no appreciation for what they have been offered on a silver plate. Am I exagerrating? Decide for yourself.
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Yes. I feel Sweden generously opened their arms welcoming the immigrants needing shelter from a war torn homeland . . . and in return . . . little thanks and a lot of ugliness. I encountered some that were kind and thankful but they are in the minority.
 
SetWave said:
They are rude, disrespectful, throw things at her, ignore her, come and go from the room as they please and tell she's a woman and they don't have to listen to her. The school does nothing.
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That's right. They beat children where they come from. This is a one-part good and two-parts bad equation. Good (I suppose:rolleyes:) in that it keeps their schools under control. Bad 1). because teaching respect by fear is not such a wonderful way to treat anyone and Bad 2). because when they come here they have no respect (read fear) so they trash anything and everything they see.
 
Pepper said:
There's a problem to be dealt with and ignoring it makes it worse.
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I don't know if "ignore" is the right word for it. This may sound very strange but in Sweden, we are not allowed to speak about it. I'd call it "forbidden". Just look at my first comments on the subject here on this thread. They weren't met with too much enthusiasm and it was even hinted that I (or my opinion) might be Islamophobic. Maybe it's my fault for not expressing myself very well but that is the sort of thing we see in Sweden every day. I can give you so many outrageous examples of it that your head would spin. I mean, seriously, there are some really crazy things going on and I'm not even talking about the exaggerated reports either. Wielding the term "racist!" in Sweden is Carte Blanche.

Let's get back to the subject of broad-based religious teachings. I think it's a good idea! (y)(y)(y)(y)
 
Verisure said:
Very sorry but I disagree with you in the strongest possible terms. This is our country, It is our culture. We raise our children to have respect for our language, our culture our history our country and our teachers. Our culture is based upon respect, not on discipline. It is shameful for us to be disrespectful. We don't need disapline other than to be told "You've done wrong."

We have periodical one-on-one teacher/parent meetings plus student progress reports with the parents. "Problem students" as you say generally enrol in a trade school rather than going on to university. But the sort of problem you and I are speaking about is something we've never had before.
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You would have never survived being a teachers assistant in an inner city school in USA; and might not survive in a nice school in a medium income area. Our children can be, and frequently are awful
 
SetWave said:
They are rude, disrespectful, throw things at her, ignore her, come and go from the room as they please and tell she's a woman and they don't have to listen to her. The school does nothing.
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Regardless of their religion they just never got the proper upbringing. Their parents should find someplace else to send them if they are not going to teach and insist that their children be courteous. I must admit though, I have found some foreign Muslims to be rude. We are supposed to give each other the greetings whenever and wherever we see each other. I've noticed some foreign Muslim women ignore me when I do that so I just stopped doing it. It makes me sad to see and hear about Muslims not representing us in a positive light. :cry:
 
Aneeda72 said:
You would have never survived being a teachers assistant in an inner city school in USA; and might not survive in a nice school in a medium income area. Our children can be, and frequently are awful
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I'm sure you're right about that. I went to high school in the US and I've seen some of it with my own eyes.
 
OneEyedDiva said:
Regardless of their religion they just never got the proper upbringing. Their parents should find someplace else to send them if they are not going to teach and insist that their children be courteous. I must admit though, I have found some foreign Muslims to be rude. We are supposed to give each other the greetings whenever and wherever we see each other. I've noticed some foreign Muslim women ignore me when I do that so I just stopped doing it. It makes me sad to see and hear about Muslims not representing us in a positive light. :cry:
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This is getting rather complicated.

* “Proper upbringing” is a relative thing.

* If (I say "if") the parents want their children to be "taught courteousness" (and for to be "insisted upon") then it is by default they would expect Swedish teachers to employ corporal punishment. That might be the norm in the countries from where they come but we don't do that in Sweden. We are very proud of it too.

There's the dilemma, and contrary to what you seem to be saying, respect ought to have been instilled long before they reached primary and secondary schools. But, if respect is taught ('back home') through fear of pain by way of corporal punishment (or the threat of it) then what are we to do when they come here and run rampant without fear of a whacking? Well, you put it correctly when you say those parents who expect their children to be taught those things will blame us ... because we are "too soft".

It's a never-ending circle. We teach respect by showing respect. We don't call teachers Mr. or Mrs. so-and-so. We call one another by first names and that includes teacher-student relationships. We also don't employ corporal punishment or public shaming. If we were to change all of that in order to conduct some sort of integrational advance forward then we will be abandoning everything we stand for and I have little doubt that it won't be very long before we are the victims of the next civil war and we will be the ones seeking refuge rather than offering it to others.
 
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One thing I forgot to mention. Children who have been exposed to the horrors of war generally exhibit symptoms of PTSD/CPTSD.. The longer the exposure, the more likelihood the symptoms are protracted and severe. One of the

most frequent symptoms is anger, particularly among males. This holds true regardless of ethnicity, religion, etc. In my country, such children are assessed for trauma as part of their medical evaluation. If they are deemed at risk, they are sent to people like me. I hope these services are readily available in Sweden also. ♥️
 
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Verisure said:
This is getting rather complicated.

* “Proper upbringing” is a relative thing.

* If (I say "if") the parents want their children to be "taught courteousness" (and for to be "insisted upon") then it is by default they would expect Swedish teachers to employ corporal punishment. That might be the norm in the countries from where they come but we don't do that in Sweden. We are very proud of it too.

There's the dilemma, and contrary to what you seem to be saying, respect ought to have been instilled long before they reached primary and secondary schools. But, if respect is taught ('back home') through fear of pain by way of corporal punishment (or the threat of it) then what are we to do when they come here and run rampant without fear of a whacking? Well, you put it correctly when you say those parents who expect their children to be taught those things will blame us ... because we are "too soft".

It's a never-ending circle. We teach respect by showing respect. We don't call teachers Mr. or Mrs. so-and-so. We call one another by first names and that includes teacher-student relationships. We also don't employ corporal punishment or public shaming. If we were to change all of that in order to conduct some sort of integrational advance forward then we will be abandoning everything we stand for and I have little doubt that it won't be very long before we are the victims of the next civil war and we will be the ones seeking refuge rather than offering it to others
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Great post.
 
SetWave said:
They are rude, disrespectful, throw things at her, ignore her, come and go from the room as they please and tell she's a woman and they don't have to listen to her. The school does nothing.
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Sounds like children in a normal pubic school in the USA 😂. After finding a particular foster child, in 5th grade, off campus once again, I asked the school could they at least try and keep him on the school grounds. Couple years later, I noticed they had completely fenced in the school grounds in an effort to encase the students. 🤦🏻‍♀️
 
Butterfly said:
Yes, but teaching that religion has had an impact on history is vastly different than "teaching" a particular religion. For instance, when I was in school, we were of course taught about the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Reformation, the fleeing of the pilgrims to America to avoid religious persecution, etc., as historical fact without the instructor taking any position on whether said religion(s) were/are right or wrong in their basic beliefs.

I was particularly fascinated by a class I took in the ancient Egyptian religion, but I certainly had no thoughts of practicing it.
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Yes, teaching history in general is something that could be done better. But like so many subjects in school it is a difficult to do well. I remember as a child hating history, though it was called "social studies", but as an adult I eat history up. I have invested huge amounts of time as an adult learning about history because I understand its purpose and the need to understand history. As they say, those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. But kids have only a vague sense of the real-world and it is hard to appeal to a need to understand history and has to be approached more from an interest perspective, such as tales of adventure and romance. Of course most of history is anything but adventure and romance.
 
Shalimar said:
One thing I forgot to mention. Children who have been exposed to the horrors of war usually exhibit symptoms of PTSD/CPTSD.. The longer the exposure, the more likelihood the symptoms are protracted and severe. One of the

most frequent symptoms is anger, particularly among males. This holds true regardless of ethnicity, religion, etc.
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Yes, I understand. Exposure to a brutal and/or dismal upbringing has the same effect. My experience in the Middle East, North Africa and even immigrants here in Europe supports this. I don’t know if you want me to go into details.
Shalimar said:
In my country, such children are assessed for trauma as part of their medical evaluation. If they are deemed at risk, they are sent to people like me. I hope these services are readily available in Sweden also. ♥️
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Yes, they are available in Sweden.
 
IMO: Each person should seek his God in his own way. Prayer should be given as a sacred communication between you and your God without spectators.
Religion and it's dogmas are good in that they keep the thought of God in the mind of the masses, and hymns toGod are wonderful.
ifone REALLY wants to speak with God and his angels, this should be done in your aloneness.
 
Shalimar said:
One thing I forgot to mention. Children who have been exposed to the horrors of war generally exhibit symptoms of PTSD/CPTSD.. The longer the exposure, the more likelihood the symptoms are protracted and severe. One of the

most frequent symptoms is anger, particularly among males. This holds true regardless of ethnicity, religion, etc. In my country, such children are assessed for trauma as part of their medical evaluation. If they are deemed at risk, they are sent to people like me. I hope these services are readily available in Sweden also. ♥️
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Children in poor, violent, inner city neighborhoods grow up in the same stressful environments as those in war torn countries. Studies have shown that their brains actually develop differently than children raised in healthy environments due to increased cortisol levels. Development of the hippocampus and the frontal cortex were stunted, causing learning disabilities, an insufficiently developed conscience, and poor impulse control. Development of the amygdalae was accelerated, causing emotional problems.

Add to that, easy access to firearms and you have a recipe for disaster.
 

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