Alligatorob
SF VIP
Yep, we have not accomplished much. Don't know the solution, but doing more of something that isn't working rarely is...
Social Housing: Are you pro or con?
- Thread starter SeniorBen
- Start date
I'll go with "con" on this one
(1) one absolute truth about human nature is that whatever you reward, you will get more of. Reward the homeless with free housing and you will get more homeless, etc
(2) All of our attempts at social engineering reward failure. Maybe it's time to reward success.
(3) Most of the money spent on helping the poor goes to the greedy, not the needy. I see it every day, in real life, and on line.
(4) Most poor folks are victims of their own poor choices, and they are unwilling to change their choices. Self inflicted wounds always hurt the most. Attempts to house the homeless just leads to the homeless destroying said housing.
The bad news is that some small % of folks who need help are glad to get it and respond accordingly. They end up being victims of the carelessness of the others. God help them.
(1) one absolute truth about human nature is that whatever you reward, you will get more of. Reward the homeless with free housing and you will get more homeless, etc
(2) All of our attempts at social engineering reward failure. Maybe it's time to reward success.
(3) Most of the money spent on helping the poor goes to the greedy, not the needy. I see it every day, in real life, and on line.
(4) Most poor folks are victims of their own poor choices, and they are unwilling to change their choices. Self inflicted wounds always hurt the most. Attempts to house the homeless just leads to the homeless destroying said housing.
The bad news is that some small % of folks who need help are glad to get it and respond accordingly. They end up being victims of the carelessness of the others. God help them.
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JaniceM
Well-known Member
- Location
- still lost between two shores..
I don't agree that it'd take several generations, but I really need to address the remainder of that paragraph because that's the theory behind current housing programs and the way the programs are implemented do not work.
The motto is "EVERYBODY is housing ready!" They don't take anything into consideration. However, it's also based on "self-determination"-- if the tenants don't want to stop using drugs, they're not required to do so; if they don't want to work, they're not required to do that either. They essentially have no rules, can do whatever they want including violating other people's rights and breaking laws.
It's based on- as you said- stable housing is the first step in improving their lives. Yet without any rules or requirements, it does not happen. Individuals are "housed" for a year and a half, two years, even longer, and are usually worse off than when they moved in.
These programs are destroying communities around the U.S. Yet when I posted more detailed info and links months ago nobody seemed interested.
Em in Ohio
Senior Member
- Location
- OH HI OH
I don't know the statistics, but they built mega-buck mansions a couple blocks from a truly depressed ghetto in Cleveland, Ohio (a major urban area) - perhaps that explains why? In the USA, it wasn't called apartheid, but it was (and still largely is, to be honest) about the same. /-;
SeniorBen
Senior Member
Yep, low-income housing doesn't work... I agree. And I don't know if the U.S. is capable of implementing social housing. Hell, we can't even build high-speed rail!
Wait, that's not funny. It sad that we've become so pathetically inept that we can't do something (build a high-speed rail system) the rest of the developed world does routinely.
As I said earlier, social housing would only work for people who wanted to improve their lives and were willing to put in the effort. I'm not sure how that would be implemented, though. Perhaps to qualify, they'd need to be employed or in some kind of trade school or college, but that wouldn't pass.
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
The trouble is that unless you have a secure place of abode it is hard to hold down a job and the children cannot get an education. Children of renters who have to relocate frequently usually have to change schools and this has an adverse effect on their learning. More than that they cannot make friends and become socially inept and suffer from anxiety. The end result is that they give up on education and become unemployable. The problem then passes from generation to generation because of a structural problem that is not their fault.Yep, low-income housing doesn't work... I agree. And I don't know if the U.S. is capable of implementing social housing. Hell, we can't even build high-speed rail!
Wait, that's not funny. It sad that we've become so pathetically inept that we can't do something (build a high-speed rail system) the rest of the developed world does routinely.
As I said earlier, social housing would only work for people who wanted to improve their lives and were willing to put in the effort. I'm not sure how that would be implemented, though. Perhaps to qualify, they'd need to be employed or in some kind of trade school or college, but that wouldn't pass.
SeniorBen
Senior Member
I think those are the problems social housing attempts to solve.
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
Exactly but we have another problem in Australia.
Property has become an investment opportunity and some investors are not interested in renting them to other people. The housing market has been running hot and they buy a house and leave it empty, relying on capital gain alone. Others buy a second property to use as a holiday home. They can rent it out a few times a year to qualify for some tax concessions. They tend to be vacant during the Winter months which does not benefits the local communities very much.
After the disastrous bushfires a couple of years ago most of these properties remained empty even though so many people had been rendered homeless.
These empty houses (and apartments) are called ghost houses.
Shoalhaven, Eurobodalla councils target ‘ghost houses’ to ease crisis (smh.com.au)
Coastal councils target more ‘ghost houses’ to ease housing crisis
By Catherine Naylor
July 31, 2022 — 5.00am
“Ghost house” owners on the NSW south coast could find themselves facing higher rates if they keep their properties empty as councils attempt to address the regional housing crisis.
It comes after Eurobodalla mayor Mathew Hatcher sent letters to owners of unoccupied houses last month, which he said had identified dozens of possible homes that could ease the region’s housing crisis, but local real estate agents say the initiative has not made a noticeable difference to the rental market.
Shoalhaven mayor Amanda Findley said the situation was so dire, however, that even if their similar letter were to push just a dozen houses onto the long-term rental market, it would help. Shoalhaven is home to almost 13,000 ghost houses – about 22 per cent of the region’s homes are unoccupied. Rental vacancy rates in the area have fallen from 5.1 per cent in 2019 to just 0.9 per cent last month.
Findley said the council was also considering other urgent ways to make more housing available, including by possibly increasing council rates for empty houses, to make investing in short-term accommodation less attractive. She said there were 4,000 properties in the Shoalhaven listed for short-term accommodation.
“Ten years ago, when you bought an investment property, a long-term rental was what was on your mind. But the [growth of holiday letting platforms] has driven people to think they can have the best of both worlds: a place they can use themselves, while also earning $50,000 a year.
“It’s had a remarkable impact on [housing] availability. And it completely hollows out the suburbs. You can walk down streets in the Shoalhaven in winter where there are no lights on because no one is home.”
Bega Shire is also considering writing to owners of empty houses, although its mayor Russell Fitzpatrick said a similar exercise after the bushfires had not produced nearly enough homes to meet demand. His focus was on building new homes in the area as quickly as possible.
The housing crisis gripping regional NSW threatens to change the fabric of country towns, as long-term residents are priced out and key workers contemplating a move to the area struggle to find housing.
The number of renters spending more than 30 per cent of their income on rent – the definition of housing stress – is soaring in many regions. In Shoalhaven, it has jumped from about 10 per cent in 2016 to 42.3 per cent last year, almost seven percentage points higher than the state average.
Findley said the state and federal governments needed to step up to provide more social housing, as well as accommodation for workers like doctors and nurses. “We’re going to have a hospital redevelopment here for just under $500 million, but there are no homes for those staff to live in unless the government actually builds those homes.”
Community Housing Industry Association chief executive Wendy Hayhurst said the regional housing crisis was affecting people who would normally easily secure housing, and this was putting extra pressure on the already-stretched social housing sector.
“People who might have been able to solve their problems in the private market now can’t,” she said. “It’s beginning to impact people who would never have expected to have an issue. They’re saying, ‘I’m holding down a decent job, why can’t I find somewhere to live’ and they’ll be competing with other people who have never had another choice [but the lower end of the market].”
Eurobodalla, which includes the holiday towns of Batemans Bay, Narooma and Moruya, has the highest number of unoccupied homes in the state. More than one in four are empty.
Hatcher said his letter to these homeowners last month had resulted in more than 150 calls and emails to council, and about 30 people had said they would put their home up for rent, or had already done so.
Local real estate agents, however, said while the letter had prompted calls from owners, the inquiries had generally not led to listings. Many owners did not know what to do with their furniture, or still wanted access to their properties during the warmer months, or to be able to return to short-term letting in the peak season.
Tenants also worried the houses would not be a secure long-term option, and many large holiday houses were not suited to tenants looking for affordable housing. One agent said holiday homes could be a good option for temporary workers who were in the area for a few months, and had told owners she would put their properties forward for this purpose.
rgp
Well-known Member
- Location
- Milford,OH
Very well said , and I agree completely.
rgp
Well-known Member
- Location
- Milford,OH
"I'd be willing to bet that the majority of homeless people would be willing to do some kind of work if that would get them off the streets."
I'd be willing to bet ....... you'd loose that bet.
I know two women [sisters] one was widowed, one married,both had some extra
. They made it their own project to get two men ..... [not off the street] but off the river bank. Both women owned property & donated two small apartments [furnished] in return for property maintainance at all their locations. There was some cash involved , for groceries, etc...I don't know the amount. Even provided a decent truck, and all supplies,tools,etc.Both men, lived for 4-6 weeks in the apartments , [didn't exactly trash them, but sure as hell left them worse than they were] Never lifted a finger to do any work .... the sisters had to involve the police to have them [the men] removed.
You cannot help those that see no need for change in their lives. IMO the best thing to do is just leave them alone . Sooner or later they will go awry of the law ......... and then we will provide housing,meals etc.
Alligatorob
SF VIP
I think you are mostly right. This is a big problem. The question is how to solve it, so far we have spent billions and had little or no success.
I agree, however I would sure like to see these people given the chance. Even if its just a small minority it would be worthwhile. For those who don't, don't waste much time or money on them...
And another thing - there is a common misconception that most of these homeless folks want to change there life for what we would consider "for the better", but the reality is that junkies just want to be junkies. Assuming that you know "what's best for them" is an error on your part. Not everyone wants that cottage with a white picket fence...
SeniorBen
Senior Member
Most people buy a house mainly for a place to live. The fact that land and houses generally appreciate over time is a side benefit. A home, for most of us, is a necessity since we all need a place to live — not a luxury item or simply an investment.
The problem is that in the current culture of the U.S. and much of the world, the only thing that matters is profit, so the real estate market has become just another way for people to make money. People with excess cash are buying up homes simply to make a profit off them and compounding the problem for people who need a place to live. Some of those investors are not even Americans; they're citizens of other countries buying homes in the U.S. and causing a great deal of pain and suffering here, but it's not talked about because what they're doing is for profit, which is the Holy Grail in this world of greed.
If the government actually worked for the people, they'd do something to stop the destruction of the American dream. That's something that "social housing" seeks to alleviate, but while it could and does work in other countries, it won't work here because of politics and corruption — the same reason the high speed rail line failed in California.
Aunt Bea
SF VIP
- Location
- Near Mount Pilot
It sound nice for the buyers, but I don’t want to live in a world where the government tells me how much I’m allowed to sell my house for or how much property I can own.
IMO it’s best to let the market sort these things out.
Remy
Well-known Member
- Location
- California, USA
SeniorBen is right. I heard on the radio this morning that investors are buying up mobile home parks and raising rents. I'm sure many of the inhabitants of those places can't afford that.
My rent was just raised the max 10% in California. I guess I'm lucky that is all they could raise it. I'm still looking for a decent mobile to buy. I'm beginning to worry I could be on the street after years and years of working very hard.
The market isn't sorting s*#! out it. The rich are buying and buying and the working person is getting SOL.
My rent was just raised the max 10% in California. I guess I'm lucky that is all they could raise it. I'm still looking for a decent mobile to buy. I'm beginning to worry I could be on the street after years and years of working very hard.
The market isn't sorting s*#! out it. The rich are buying and buying and the working person is getting SOL.
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hollydolly
SF VIP
- Location
- London England
This is interesting...an American point of view on reverse culture shock, and the first thing he mentions is social housing
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
@senior Ben is right about foreigners buying up real estate for capital gain. Unfortunately these buyers and local ones who buy up multiple properties, heavily leveraged I might add, get concessions on capital gain that make the practice even more profitable. Neither the Australian government, nor any US government is going to tell home owners how much they can sell their homes for, nor are they likely to put a limit on how many we can own. However, if there is a differential rate of taxation instead of a discount, then there will be more funding available for roads and other services and maybe even for some social housing.
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
That's snobbery. What is the alternative? Let them live on the streets and under the bridges?
Happy Heart
Member
The push to end zoning laws is a big problem and just another step towards socialism. We should help those in real need while not rewarding bad behavior.
We need to enforce strong laws to prevent foreign companies from buying up our cities, farms, and especially property near our military bases.
hollydolly
SF VIP
- Location
- London England
Incidentally.. off topic I know but in that video I posted above... he mentions that in''Europe'' he has to pay for ketchup and condiments in restaurants and has to pay to use the toilet in McDonalds.. whereas it;s free in the US... I can categorically state that maybe in the Netherlands they have to do that but I haven't been anywhere in Europe where we'd had to pay for condiments, or use a toilet in a restaurant.. so it's simply untrue..
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hollydolly
SF VIP
- Location
- London England
SeniorBen
Senior Member
The Carlyle Group bought more than 1,000 mobile and manufactured home lots in four parks built mostly in the 1960s and 1970s, according to public real estate records.
The investor owns a handful of other mobile home parks in metro Phoenix as well as dozens of others across the U.S.
Metro Phoenix’s most affordable housing is in high demand, not only with a growing number of renters but with some of the world’s biggest real-estate investors. Since 2017, investors have spent more than half a billion dollars on mobile and manufactured home parks in the Phoenix area.
Housing advocates are concerned about investors' buying spree of older mobile home parks because they often look for high returns on their money and raise rents.
Before the COVID-19 pandemic, investors were working to turn some of the parks closer in, particularly near light rail, into high-end housing developments. Longtime residents relying on the affordable rents lose their homes and often must move farther away from jobs, schools and public transportation.
The Carlyle Group is an American multinational private equity, alternative asset management and financial services corporation with $325 billion of assets under management. It specializes in private equity, real assets, and private credit. It is one of the largest mega-funds in the world.
... Anything for a buck.
Teacher Terry
Well-known Member
I have had to pay to use the bathroom in Poland at a restaurant I was eating at. I found it strange but had it happen a few times.