Social Security benefits for illegal immigrants

Just one question... Isn't the object of this for immigrants to work and PAY into Social Security and Medicare, as well as income taxes? SO........IF they pay into it.. why shouldn't they collect it when they retire? Just askin'
 

well, if they meet the requirements -- legit social security number, and enough quarters if working and contributing to qualify for benefits, then I don't see a problem. Nobody, including citizens, just automatically gets social security. You have to qualify by having paid in to it for a certain length of time (I'm thinking 40 quarters, but that could be way off), and the amount you get is based on the amount documented that you earned over that period. In the alternative, if we don't want them to qualify for social security if they are working legally, then I don't see how we can make them contribute to it out of their paychecks. Fair is fair, after all.
 
I agree, if they pay into the system, then they should be eligible for social security benefits like anyone else. From what I read, the only objection is from those who oppose everything the President does, and are against any type of immigration reform. Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't think this is even an issue. http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/immigrants-benefits-obamas-actions-27198834?singlePage=true


WASHINGTON — Nov 26, 2014, 8:47 PM ET
By JIM KUHNHENN Associated Press
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"Many immigrants in the United States illegally who apply for work permits under President Barack Obama's new executive actions would be eligible for Social Security and Medicare benefits upon reaching retirement age, according to the White House.

Under Obama's actions, immigrants who are spared deportation could obtain work permits and a Social Security number. As a result, they would pay into the Social Security system through payroll taxes.

No such "lawfully present" immigrant, however, would be immediately entitled to the benefits because like all Social Security and Medicare recipients they would have to work 10 years to become eligible for retirement payments and health care. To remain qualified, either Congress or future administrations would have to extend Obama's actions so that those immigrants would still be considered lawfully present in the country.

None of the immigrants who would be spared deportation under Obama's executive actions would be able to receive federal assistance such as welfare or food stamps, or other income-based aid. They also would not be eligible to purchase health insurance in federal exchanges set up by the new health care law and they would not be able to apply for tax credits that would lower the cost of their health insurance.

Less clear until now was their eligibility for retirement benefits for which they would have paid into through payroll taxes.
Describing the administration's position, one official said Wednesday that any immigrant considered lawfully present and holding a Social Security number would be entitled to Social Security and Medicare upon retirement because they would have paid into the system.

The Social Security Administration estimates that out of about 11 immigrants who either entered the U.S. illegally or have overstayed their visas slightly more than 3 million paid payroll taxes of about $6.5 billion in 2010, with their employers contributing another $6.5 billion.

Those payments would not qualify toward the 10 year requirement needed to be eligible for benefits, the administration official said. The official was not authorized to describe the policy by name and spoke on the condition of anonymity.

"It's one of many reasons why they would want to come forward," Moussavian said. "Many immigrants have contributed enormously through payroll taxes and income taxes and they go to programs that they can't currently access."
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An immigration policy will take much tweaking with so many different categories of immigrants just like Obamacare will with so many categories of patients...
 
Ralphy1 said:
An immigration policy will take much tweaking with so many different categories of immigrants just like Obamacare will with so many categories of patients...
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It shouldn't operate any differently for the immigrants as it does for US citizens provided they are working and paying into the system.
 
"The conservative backlash has been swift and will certainly extend into a GOP Congress’ deliberations in 2015 over how to limit the reach of the president’s immigration blueprint."

......Yawn...what else is new?
 
When US citizens work in foreign countries and pay taxes in those countries, they are usually eligible for benefits there. Why should people who pay taxes in this country be treated any differently than anyone else who pays into the system?

I agree that this is a non-issue.
 
IF they legally paid into the system using their own original name and social security number. IF they used fraudulent means or stolen IDs they should NOT. And just like other American citizens the same rules and criteria should apply. Actually the same rules apply to guest workers and/or visitors because we are only talking legal status, not citizenship in many cases.
 
WhatInThe said:
IF they legally paid into the system using their own original name and social security number. IF they used fraudulent means or stolen IDs they should NOT. And just like other American citizens the same rules and criteria should apply. Actually the same rules apply to guest workers and/or visitors because we are only talking legal status, not citizenship in many cases.
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Can you explain HOW someone using a stolen card or a fraudulent name can collect benefits? These people may do this to get a job, but they never see a dime of the money that is paid.
 
SeaBreeze said:
I agree, if they pay into the system, then they should be eligible for social security benefits like anyone else. From what I read, the only objection is from those who oppose everything the President does, and are against any type of immigration reform.
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Therein lies the biggest issue to this even working. The Pubs are more concerend about negating anything this POTUS does than wanting what is best for the Country. Walk in the shoes of the Hispanic immigrant... after the executive order was announced. If they come out of the shadows, apply for the work visa and a social security number, the government knows where they live. If the Pubs, in their effort to defeat anything associated with the POTUS, overturn the executive order or pass legislation that renders it moot... now what do those with the work visa status do?? The immigration authorities now can come knock on their door and haul them away. Be "legal" today. Be able to apply for a better paying job today. Start paying taxes today. Tomorrow, for reasons only political, they face deportation. What a mess is bred by partisan politics!!!! Those who just saw millions of dollars spent on their own election campaigns will work their partisan butts off to keep families from earning a living wage. We, as a Country, should be ashamed!!!
 
QuickSilver said:
Can you explain HOW someone using a stolen card or a fraudulent name can collect benefits? These people may do this to get a job, but they never see a dime of the money that is paid.
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Maybe not directly but there are indirect ways.

Millions of illegal immigrants are getting a bigger tax refund than you.
Bob Segall, of WTHR reports finding a massive tax loophole that provides billions of dollars in tax credits to undocumented workers and, in many cases, people who have never stepped foot in the United States. And you are paying for it.
Inside his central Indiana office, a longtime tax consultant sits at his desk, shaking his head in disbelief.
“There is not a doubt in my mind there’s huge fraud taking place here,” he said, slowly flipping through the pages of a tax return.
The tax preparer does not want you to know his name for fear of reprisal, but he does want you to know about a nationwide problem with a huge price tag.
He came to 13 Investigates to blow the whistle.
“We’re talking about a multi-billion dollar fraud scheme here that’s taking place and no one is talking about it,” he said.
The scheme involves illegal immigrants — illegal immigrants who are filing tax returns.
How it works
The Internal Revenue Service says everyone who is employed in the United States – even those who are working here illegally – must report income and pay taxes. Of course, undocumented workers are not supposed to have a social security number. So for them to pay taxes, the IRS created what’s called an ITIN, an individual taxpayer identification number. A 9-digit ITIN number issued by the IRS provides both resident and nonresident aliens with a unique identification number that allows them to file tax returns.
While that may have seemed like a good idea, it’s now backfiring in a big way.
Each spring, at tax preparation offices all across the nation, many illegal immigrants are now eagerly filing tax returns to take advantage of a tax loophole, using their ITIN numbers to get huge refunds from the IRS.
The loophole is called the Additional Child Tax Credit. It’s a fully-refundable credit of up to $1000 per child, and it’s meant to help working families who have children living at home.
But many undocumented workers are claiming the tax credit for kids who live in Mexico – lots of kids in Mexico.
“We’ve seen sometimes 10 or 12 dependents, most times nieces and nephews, on these tax forms,” the whistleblower said. “The more you put on there, the more you get back.”
​
 
The IF they are paying into the system legally.

ID or identity theft is a huge problem including high immigrant areas like Florida. Identity theft takeover for things like medical BENEFITs is also a growing problem. And the theft of social security numbers can be used to get a job, credit and/or benefits private & government.

Should it be considered a coincidence that higher ID theft rates and illegal immigrants are frequently coinciding? I know people with Hispanic last names had their ID stolen several times in less than 10 years in a high immigrant state.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/04/world/americas/04iht-id.2688618.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 notice the year of this article. This has been an existing problem.

ID theft in high immigrant areas

http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20141119/ARCHIVES/411191060?tc=ar

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2014/01/15/florida-leads-nation-in-identity-theft/


If these amnestied illegal immigrants have not committed any other crimes other than being here illegally then they should get legal benefit through the same processes citizens and legal residents get them. But fraud is a crime no matter the motivation. If an illegal immigrant committed fraud to get a job and all associated benefits like other criminals they should not be able to benefit from their crimes. Amnesty should've been for illegal residency status, not any and all other CRIMES.
 
Personally, I think it would be pretty hard to show up at the SS office with a stolen card and false ID's and try to collect SS retirement benefits. What happens when the REAL owner of that number comes forward? These cards are used to get jobs.. the money sent to the SS accounts is something they will never see.
 
The thought comes to my mind about the actual "work" for the legal immigrant. Also, how many of the "illegal" immigrants are families, or what did he call them, "gang bangers"? I don't remember now, but those that want to do the right thing will come forward right? Out of the shadows. Ok. If they are already working for someone that is paying them dirt-poor wages, they'll now deserve a minimum at least, by law. Most families I know can't survive on one income, unless they don't care about having anything extra, or need government program help like foodstamps etc. I feel that link made it sound like an easy breezy deal, and I don't think it will be at all.

I think it sounded good because back in the day, folks would come to America, like via Ellis Island, get registered, and go on to raise their families as American Citizens. This deal has gotten out of hand and Obama even says there are millions and how could we round them up. I don't think we have a choice but this idea since it was let go for so long. Like many other things, it's gotten out of hand, out of our hands. If people live work and pay into SS they get theirs, and hopefully it will be there for all of us.
 
Illegal immigration has gotten completely out of hand over the past few decades, and there is probably No Way that the millions here could be rounded up and deported. About the ONLY way to stem this tide would be to post armed guards every 20 feet along our entire US/Mexican border....at a cost of 10's of billions per year. Perhaps the Best way to discourage even more illegals from coming here would be to increase/enforce the laws prohibiting employers from hiring them...AND levy some Massive fines against the employers who flaunt our laws. If some of these employers had to pay out thousands of dollars if they got caught exploiting this cheap labor, perhaps it would send a message, and the illegals would have little incentive to come here, if they couldn't even get a slave labor wage job.
 
QuickSilver said:
Personally, I think it would be pretty hard to show up at the SS office with a stolen card and false ID's and try to collect SS retirement benefits. What happens when the REAL owner of that number comes forward? These cards are used to get jobs.. the money sent to the SS accounts is something they will never see.
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I've learned my lesson about arguing about retirement benefits. But as I remember it back in 2007 when my wife filed for SS we went online and filed out all the information, setup her account and never talked to anyone about her benefits. She received about 6 checks before going direct deposit. To have DD she had to be on the account as either primary or secondary. She made two changes (both online, 1 to change her bank info, 1 to change her address) she has never been inside a SS office in the 7 years.

I set mine up in 2009 again online. Changed both my address and bank information (changed banks and/or direction at least 4 times since 2009). All were done online. The only time I was required to go into a SS office was when I had to hand carry my Fed tax % change and the other time was when my under 18 dependent reached legal age.

I may be wrong but I can see a few holes in the above system. Fake ID's can be obtainable, I watch crime shows on TV all the time.
 
Son_of_Perdition said:
Hmm, 2006 this was going on in the 6th year of the Bush Admin.
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Yep, that's what happens when brother Jeb marries what is/was an illegal alien. Or the fact that Bushes probably benefited from plenty of undocumented ranch help for decades or knew people that had.. This is yet another reason to keep little Jeb away from a presidential legacy.

Also on identity theft and illegal aliens.

http://www.onenewsnow.com/perspecti...mass-pardon-for-identity-thieves#.VHy9IzwtDIU


When it gets to the point that the problem is purposely being under reported it is a problem no matter the administration.
 
Son_of_Perdition said:
I've learned my lesson about arguing about retirement benefits. But as I remember it back in 2007 when my wife filed for SS we went online and filed out all the information, setup her account and never talked to anyone about her benefits. She received about 6 checks before going direct deposit. To have DD she had to be on the account as either primary or secondary. She made two changes (both online, 1 to change her bank info, 1 to change her address) she has never been inside a SS office in the 7 years.

I set mine up in 2009 again online. Changed both my address and bank information (changed banks and/or direction at least 4 times since 2009). All were done online. The only time I was required to go into a SS office was when I had to hand carry my Fed tax % change and the other time was when my under 18 dependent reached legal age.

I may be wrong but I can see a few holes in the above system. Fake ID's can be obtainable, I watch crime shows on TV all the time.
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No... I still don't think it would be all that easy. For the simple reason of the income tax filing. A person working with a stolen card would not file income tax returns.. the person who had their card stolen WOULD. The non match of the incomes going in against that card would trigger an audit and an investigation. Then the source of the fraudulent contributions could be very easy to track down as the employer sends in the payments. I simply think this is an exaggerated problem... and Undocumented workers are NOT collecting SS benefits like some would want people to believe. It's just another ginned up red herring.. The Illegal would have a hard time establishing the work history needed to file for benefits.
 
Alrighty then. My only advice being that I DID work in computer security for 35 years and currently have 2 close relatives working at the IRS, 1 in criminal investigations and 1 doing tax audits, is the government will eventually catch up (hopefully). It may take 2-3 years to catch a problem with your SS benefits and up to 5 years to catch a problem with your tax returns.

SO YOU NEED TO KEEP ACCURATE RECORDS AND VERIFIABLE PROOF OF YOUR FINANCIAL ENDEAVORS!!! It would also help to have a tax lawyer on speed dial.
 
Don M. said:
Illegal immigration has gotten completely out of hand over the past few decades, and there is probably No Way that the millions here could be rounded up and deported. About the ONLY way to stem this tide would be to post armed guards every 20 feet along our entire US/Mexican border....at a cost of 10's of billions per year. Perhaps the Best way to discourage even more illegals from coming here would be to increase/enforce the laws prohibiting employers from hiring them...AND levy some Massive fines against the employers who flaunt our laws. If some of these employers had to pay out thousands of dollars if they got caught exploiting this cheap labor, perhaps it would send a message, and the illegals would have little incentive to come here, if they couldn't even get a slave labor wage job.
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You're right about enforcement of employment laws. Here in my neck of the woods large farmers and farm labor contractors hire illegal immigrants all the time to work in the fields, and nobody seems to do much of anything about it. Not only do they pay "slave labor" wages, but they avoid paying their payroll taxes. A lot of illegal immigrants are also hired in kitchens of restaurants. If we'd make a serious attempt to enforce the laws already on the books, we'd go far in reducing the incentive to come here, as you say. But the gov't doesn't do anything about policing these employers -- you'd think ICE or the IRS or somebody would take an interest.
 

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