Social Security benefits for illegal immigrants

Migrant farm workers from Mexico have been a part of our agriculture for decades...especially where hand picking of vegetables, etc., is required. For decades, these people came to the US, and followed the harvests for 4 months, and made enough money in that time to live decently in Mexico for the entire year...and went back home. There should be a means of issuing a work permit to them, and tracking their movements, and insuring that they go back home. Now, we have large numbers of illegals who come here and take our ridiculously low wage jobs in restaurants, hotels, and general construction. Our own people don't want those jobs, because they can make more money off our welfare programs than they can at our minimum wages. Those wages need to be increased, and employers tracked and fined if they hire an illegal. Increasing the minimum wage might add 25 cents to the cost of a hamburger, or $2 to the cost of a nights stay in a hotel, but it would go a long way towards putting some of our own people back to work, instead of using these illegals to keep costs down.
 

Precisely why Republican lawmakers fight so hard against Minimum wage increases and immigration reform.. They are dancing to the tune their Corporate puppetmasters are fiddling.
 
Son_of_Perdition said:
Alrighty then. My only advice being that I DID work in computer security for 35 years and currently have 2 close relatives working at the IRS, 1 in criminal investigations and 1 doing tax audits, is the government will eventually catch up (hopefully). It may take 2-3 years to catch a problem with your SS benefits and up to 5 years to catch a problem with your tax returns.

SO YOU NEED TO KEEP ACCURATE RECORDS AND VERIFIABLE PROOF OF YOUR FINANCIAL ENDEAVORS!!! It would also help to have a tax lawyer on speed dial.
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Thanks SOP, I know from first hand knowledge as well, but from the other end. I was contacted by the IRS warning me someone "tried" to file a tax return with my SS #. Long story, and your bold type above is very, good advice.
 

QuickSilver said:
No... I still don't think it would be all that easy. For the simple reason of the income tax filing. A person working with a stolen card would not file income tax returns.. the person who had their card stolen WOULD. The non match of the incomes going in against that card would trigger an audit and an investigation. Then the source of the fraudulent contributions could be very easy to track down as the employer sends in the payments. I simply think this is an exaggerated problem... and Undocumented workers are NOT collecting SS benefits like some would want people to believe. It's just another ginned up red herring.. The Illegal would have a hard time establishing the work history needed to file for benefits.
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"A person working with a stolen card would not file income tax returns". Yes, they would at least try to file a tax return, because they did with my SS. I think it's foolish to try, because I can't believe they could actually collect. I received a letter of warning/alert from IRS this last year. I did not file a return as I had no income. I have no clue, still, even after as much research as I could muster to find out who may have used my SS.
 
The issue with the tax structure was it was originally designed to rely on tax payer's honesty. It has developed from the early 30's to what it is today. A convoluted immense government headache. There are supposed to be checks and balances and there is but the wheels of government turn slowly. That's what the criminal element is banking on. They file numerous fake returns and if they only get 10% of them through they have made it profitable. According to a NOLA article it is a multi billion dollar industry.

It may not be the illegal aliens who are filling these fake returns but it is a bustling business in our penal system. They estimate that as much as $4B is filled for each year and the IRS catches about 90% of them. That still leaves $400M for the perpetrators. The caveat here is timing it may take as long as 18 months to identify the fakes, and in 18 months the criminals have moved on, relocated leaving no forwarding address. Then it is up to the victim to prove his innocence and try to recover his or her money. The IRS is not in the wrong here according to them, it's now your problem and if you don't have the paper trail to back you it won't wash.

As the felons are released they find it difficult to land jobs, one of the positions open to them is as a debt collector. They are hired on commission and the companies hiring know that as a convicted felons they've dealt with people in distress. Debt collectors have your financial data or can obtain it rather easily. I'm not saying all DC's are felons and not all are dishonest. But there are enough bad apples to make it profitable either through selling your information or going out on their own to milk the system.

Records will help and keeping a close tab on your finances are still the best methods against possible fraud.
 
In my opinion, the false tax return thing is probably not something the individual farm laborer/restaurant/hotel worker would be sophisticated enough to do. Most of them do not want to come within miles of the IRS or any other government authority, for fear of being deported.
 
Butterfly said:
In my opinion, the false tax return thing is probably not something the individual farm laborer/restaurant/hotel worker would be sophisticated enough to do. Most of them do not want to come within miles of the IRS or any other government authority, for fear of being deported.
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I agree... that was my point. The opinion seems to be that undocumented immigrants are collecting social security benefits by using their stollen SS numbers. It simply isn't true.. These people may use the numbers to get employment... have money for FICA and taxes deducted from their checks and never see a dime in benefits for that reason. The Presidents executive action would allow people to have cards and work visas and PAY legally. They would then be able to collect benefits provided they reach the same requirements US citizens do.
 
So what you are saying is there are no illegals/gang or cartel members in our prison system who might be taking part in the scheme to defraud the IRS by filing stolen identity fake tax returns?
 
Son_of_Perdition said:
So what you are saying is there are no illegals/gang or cartel members in our prison system who might be taking part in the scheme to defraud the IRS by filing stolen identity fake tax returns?
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There was a piece on the news, earlier this week, that said there were over 100,000 fraudulent tax refunds issued to prisoners in 2012...and the numbers are increasing. Here's one of the reports on the Internet.

http://www.newsmax.com/US/IRS-prisoners-file-1-billion/2014/11/25/id/609528/

It appears that the IRS needs to revamp its procedures.
 
Son_of_Perdition said:
So what you are saying is there are no illegals/gang or cartel members in our prison system who might be taking part in the scheme to defraud the IRS by filing stolen identity fake tax returns?
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I'm sorry... I thought we were talking about Illegal immigrants... not prisoners.. And I thought we were talking about illegals filing for SS benefits.. not fraudulent tax returns. Identity theft is a huge problem...
 
It's all one big can of worms. SS has been supporting government programs since the 50's, thanks to the Eisenhower administration. So anything that affects one affects the other. Filing for benefits for non-existant children, file a fraudulent tax return, milk Medicade,,,etc it doesn't matter. Even our military is training legal cartel members (who have non-legal relatives in other countries) in the use of computers and they are getting out with skills that enable them to gain financial information or steal identities. They can use the information themselves or sell it as a package deal to exporters of illegals that gain access to our systems.

All you can do at this point is try to protect your little corner of the world the best you can and assume nothing, trust no one and hold your purse a little tighter to your side.
 
Son_of_Perdition said:
So what you are saying is there are no illegals/gang or cartel members in our prison system who might be taking part in the scheme to defraud the IRS by filing stolen identity fake tax returns?
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Most of us know that there are SOP;) I would guess it's usually someone in the country illegally, and has been here long enough to learn the ropes/scams. Just like people in general though, they aren't all doing it, and the new immigrants probably wouldn't have the knowledge to pull it off.
 
QuickSilver said:
I'm sorry... I thought we were talking about Illegal immigrants... not prisoners.. And I thought we were talking about illegals filing for SS benefits.. not fraudulent tax returns. Identity theft is a huge problem...
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Most drug cartel members aren't upstanding citizens of the US. I would guess they are most likely illegal immigrants come to seek the American Dream with their types of business.
 
I think I will dis-engage from this, for those of you who want, keep your rose-colored blinders on, plan a getaway to some safe foreign port like Acapulco or even a summer time visit to exotic North Korea, India, the Holy Land or others. Just don't expect me to follow suit.
 
Son_of_Perdition said:
I think I will dis-engage from this, for those of you who want, keep your rose-colored blinders on, plan a getaway to some safe foreign port like Acapulco or even a summer time visit to exotic North Korea, India, the Holy Land or others. Just don't expect me to follow suit.
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I value your opinion, everyone has a right here, to their opinion, just remember you are welcome here. I love to see people discuss things and work together on topics, respecting one an other. If we can do that here, it gives me hope maybe it will happen more in the offline world;)
 
nwlady said:
Most drug cartel members aren't upstanding citizens of the US. I would guess they are most likely illegal immigrants come to seek the American Dream with their types of business.
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Members of the Drug cartels have more money than you or I could ever dream of. Stealing someone's tax return wouldn't be worth their time..
 
QuickSilver said:
Members of the Drug cartels have more money than you or I could ever dream of. Stealing someone's tax return wouldn't be worth their time..
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I don't know the fact that illegal immigrants even applied for something like Obama Care or have filed fraudulent or non applicable income tax returns leads one to believe they are doing more with social security numbers than simply getting a job which is fraud in itself.

http://www.newsmax.com/US/Obamacare...-Act-illegal-immigrants/2014/09/23/id/596383/

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/illegal-immigration-tax-loophole/2012/08/23/id/449490/
 
QuickSilver said:
Members of the Drug cartels have more money than you or I could ever dream of. Stealing someone's tax return wouldn't be worth their time..
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They don't get rich over night, if they do make it to the big-time. Plus, if they could establish a "front" with legitimate records of filing taxes. I never said they all do it, I don't tend to exaggerate my thoughts and ideas, so I am just saying there are those that no doubt at least try this. Another thing I kind of hit on in the beginning, a lot of poorer immigrants are used in drug running, again, they aren't all rich, not even most I would bet.
 
QuickSilver said:
Members of the Drug cartels have more money than you or I could ever dream of. Stealing someone's tax return wouldn't be worth their time..
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You obviously have no clue about how cartels/gangs/mafia (all the same) work. It is an organization not unlike a pyramid. The top benefits from income from the lower levels. They provide money making opportunities and a degree of protection to the workers for their loyalty. The workers are assigned duties to benefit the leaders not the other way around. The workers are expected to generated income from other sources i.e. drugs, fraud, robberies, loan sharking, prostitution, car jacking, and yes stolen identities including fake tax returns.

The bosses expect their cut first and what is left over is what the workers live the high life on. The more they can generate from nefarious activities the more they keep to dress funny, get tattoos and play the role. They have no payroll department or long term benefits, records are their Achilles heel so usually none are kept. Any type of dishonest activity is OK as long as it doesn't affect the boss's bottom line. If a worker decides that he/she can do better by themselves and become an independent dealer the c/g/m have their own internal policing methods and it's usually final.
 
Son_of_Perdition said:
You obviously have no clue about how cartels/gangs/mafia (all the same) work. It is an organization not unlike a pyramid. The top benefits from income from the lower levels. They provide money making opportunities and a degree of protection to the workers for their loyalty. The workers are assigned duties to benefit the leaders not the other way around. The workers are expected to generated income from other sources i.e. drugs, fraud, robberies, loan sharking, prostitution, car jacking, and yes stolen identities including fake tax returns.

The bosses expect their cut first and what is left over is what the workers live the high life on. The more they can generate from nefarious activities the more they keep to dress funny, get tattoos and play the role. They have no payroll department or long term benefits, records are their Achilles heel so usually none are kept. Any type of dishonest activity is OK as long as it doesn't affect the boss's bottom line. If a worker decides that he/she can do better by themselves and become an independent dealer the c/g/m have their own internal policing methods and it's usually final.
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Sorry.... You are obviously an expert on illegal activities... I defer to your expertise...
 
You just can't help yourself can you QS, when someone knows more about something then you do, or makes a very, good point, you can't just say they have a good point, you have to be nasty. I feel sorry for you because there is no way you will ever be right about everything. And when you talk like this to people, you are the only one that looks bad. Now you can run and tell on me, I don't care. I am sick of your rudeness and lack of any sign of humility.
 
Oh Gawd! Riots in our streets, being overrun by illegals, graffiti on our walls, wars all over the world, identity theft, murders, robberies everyday....I think I have lived too long.
 
nwlady said:
You just can't help yourself can you QS, when someone knows more about something then you do, or makes a very, good point, you can't just say they have a good point, you have to be nasty. I feel sorry for you because there is no way you will ever be right about everything. And when you talk like this to people, you are the only one that looks bad. Now you can run and tell on me, I don't care. I am sick of your rudeness and lack of any sign of humility.
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What are you talking about...?? I complemented him on his knowledge... He told me I didn't have a clue.. and I agreed? What's the problem?
 
Well, I wouldn't be surprised if the organized (and they MUST be, to pull it off) people who are filing false tax returns have nothing to do with the undocumented workers who come over here to pick chili or onions or whatever. The individual workers won't even complain to authorities about unpaid wages, exploitation or anything else, for fear of deportation, which is one of the reasons the farmers and other employers continue to get away with paying substandard wages and exploitation and labor violations right and left and tax fraud and a ton of other things. Remember, most of the workers have very little education, if any at all, and can't even speak English. If they have a stolen SS number, they just use it for getting a job, and have no hope of ever getting any social security. AND if they do have a stolen SS number, you can bet someone else has procured it for them and charged them for its use -- it's probably those people who are trying to get illegal refunds, etc. , not the poor uneducated guy breaking his back in the chili fields in the hot sun.

Do not get me wrong, I think something must be done to stop the illegal entry of immigrants -- but something also needs to be done to stop the whole host of others enabling and preying on them once they get here.
 

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