Spanking a child

There are very good programs for parents these day, such as the Triple P (Positive Parenting Program) but simply not chastising a child is not enough. I've seen too many mothers who are unable to assert themselves when their children are acting out because all they seem to do is plead with them to stop misbehaving, mostly to no avail. At the other end of the scale I heard mothers scream at their kids and threaten them with death if they don't desist. Equally useless, because the child still pays no attention. Positive parenting requires a lot of patience and consistency for it to be effective. You can see it at the day care centres where house devils appear as little angels for the carers.

I found that when things were getting out of hand at home, time out in the bedroom was useful but today the bedroom is a child's playground of delights. Still, if the behaviour improves afterwards ???

I liked the earlier post about bears and lions chastising their cubs. I watched a doco about a mother bear training her cubs to climb a tree when she sounded an alarm. If the cubs didn't respond instantly, she cuffed them to reinforce the urgency of the signal. I adopted the same approach to certain safely lessons when the children were little. Playing with fire, or electrical sockets, or not stopping at the kerb when we were out walking, were matters too serious to ignore. First came the smack, then the admonition that they had been told never to do that and finally the explanation of why it was dangerous. I really only had to do it once.

I was not smack happy and was always sorry for squalling little kids who were obviously overtired. However, sometimes an overtired child won't sleep and just needs a bit of a cry to allow them to let go and get some rest. In that case a smack can be a circuit breaker.
 

With respect DW, we are sentient beings, lions are not. It is not necessary to rule by fear. We simply have no right to hit helpless little beings. My son has never been spanked, he is a moral human being. His children will not be spanked either. There are other ways to enforce discipline that work well. I employed them. I reject any premise that infers that spanking is thebest/only recourse re dealing with serious instances ie electrical dangers.
 
Shalimar, I'm not advocating ruling children by fear, at least, not all the time. I was a high school teacher and obviously physical punishment was totally inappropriate. However, I did have to assert my authority over my students by means of various sanctions and IMO that is what an occasional smack does when children are little. My disapproval of certain behaviours did need to be established when the children were young. I'm not sure what people mean by spanking. I'm talking about a single slap on the hand or the calf.

My daughter raised her children without hitting them (as far as I know) and they have turned out fine. My posts have been about what I did and some of the reasons why I did these things. I'm not advocating that everyone should follow suit. Times have changed.

As for the animals, they act from instinct, not reason. The animals that are more attentive to their young, who actively teach them what they need for survival, are the more successful in rearing their young. I used to show a documentary about a mob of kangaroos to my high school science classes. Two does were filmed with their joeys over a twelve month period. One was a mature female who was probably rearing her last joey and the other was bringing up her first. The older mother was attentive, insisted that the joey jump back into the pouch when she called and would not let him out whenever he wanted her to. The young doe was more laissez faire and her joey did pretty much what she wanted to. She ranged far and wide and her mother was unconcerned, although she fed and cleaned her when she was nearby.

One night that particular joey was savaged by a dingo and died the next day. My teenage girls were very upset at this event but all of the science teachers who were mothers took the opportunity to reinforce the message to the girls that if their mothers seemed strict with them it was probably a good thing and certainly a sign of love.

I think we can look at the animal kingdom and reflect on our own methods of raising our young. My mum often used to say that some alley cats made better mothers than some people she knew. She was referring to their willingness to defend their kittens from harm, including from the tom cats. She could never understand how any mother could allow someone to do harm to a child. Even so, she was prepared to chastise my sister and I by occasionally slapping our legs but it had to be for something serious. She never let our father hit us though, and I wouldn't let my husband hit ours either. Physical punishment in our house was infrequent, relatively mild and quite effective when it needed to be. I suffered no lasting harm, neither did my sister. IMO verbal abuse can be much more damaging to a little child.
 
Cookie, love the advice about temper tantrums. I always walked away from my daughter when she was throwing a tantrum except for just one time. She chose the china department in a department store to throw herself on the floor, kicking and screaming, and I didn't dare let her continue unchecked. Like the good doctor in the video I picked her up and removed her from the breakables. Then I spanked her bottom - the full over the knee job and I didn't care who saw me. That was her last tantrum ever, unless you count adolescent door slamming.

I had another trick I use when she was being obnoxious as a small child. I would walk around the house looking for my daughter, going from room to room calling her name etc. She would always be intrigued as to why I couldn't see her and she would say "Here I am" etc but I would still refuse to recognise her. I'd say "You aren't my Susan. My Susan's a good girl." After a bit of this nonsense, her mood would be better and I would then say "Oh, you really are a good girl. Now I can see you" and all would be well without any chastisement at all. Distraction can work for some things.
 
My dad was a firm believer in the belt. After a couple time getting the belt on the backside, all dad had to do was move his hand toward his belt, and I'd immediately stop misbehaving.

We also had a teacher in third grade who had a white yardstick nicknamed "white lightning". I never heard of him actually using it, but just the threat of it was enough to keep us in line and focused.

I also had a teacher in 4th grade who smacked my hand with a ruler. I was blatantly misbehaving and deserved what I got. I never, ever misbehaved in his class again.

I respect and thank every one of them who disciplined me during my formative years. Those lessons stayed with me my entire life.
 
Parent education programs have been available for a long time that provide alternatives to spankings or doing nothing. Unfortunately, most parents do not take advantage of them, especially men. Muddling thru is still the order of the day...
 
Cookie said:
I'm not a child psychologist, but there are professionals who can give us some advice, the article below addresses this issue. Young parents really need to educate themselves on these better ways to deal. I've see mothers smacking kids who are having a tantrum, and all I see is hitting and screaming. This website is pretty thorough if you take the time to read through it.

http://www.webmd.com/children/tc/temper-tantrums-topic-overview
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I agree, instilling fear does not work in the long run, whether its an adult or child, there are better methods of discipline.
 
hollydolly said:
Ditto Glinda..ditto... I got the worst of it, my brother got a lot of it..but my 2 younger sisters never did ...I could never understand that , and they grew to be very manipulative and would lie to my father for the fun of watching me getting a beating.

No little smackings...but beaten to a pulp with fist, feet, belt buckles, broom handles.. and more. Humiliation beatings as well ..( I won't go into details) and other stuff .far worse. He broke my coccyx once by kicking me until I could no longer stand and hauling me up to continue kicking and I'd fall down again and he'd hail me up again to continue kicking...

...I could tell you a thousand stories

My mother although ruled by him and in fear of him , was occasionally quite capable of lashing out with her fists or a broom handle. I remember she beat the living daylights out of me simply because I came home from sports day at school and told her I'd manage to jump 13 feet in the long jump..it wasn't possible she said, I was a liar she said....and hit me over and over again with the broom handle, and while I was on the floor knelt on my chest punching me repeatedly in the face ( she ultimately took her own life after suffering from depression and alcoholism)

I could write a book but I think I'd have a breakdown recalling all the bad memories..

Today my father would have gone to jail for a very long time...
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Holly so sorry about all the abuse you went through while growing up...it brought tears. You are a Beautiful Lady both inside and out, and have such a happy personality, one would never guess all the torment you lived through. Much love to you, and also to Shalimar and Glinda for their suffering through abuse while growing up. ((((((Hugs))))))
 
Shalimar said:
Thank you Misty, much love and hugs to you as well. We are the lucky ones, we survived. We bear witness for the children who did not.:love_heart:
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Thank you for the love and hugs, Shalimar....they are deeply appreciated, Dear Friend. :love_heart:
 
I hear you, Holly. The monsters in my life would be jailed as well. Unfortunately , ritual abuse still continues, and child sex slaves are all too common. Wealthy patrons of exclusive pedophile establishments can have anything they can afford, including snuff films. Welcome to the world of the hundred year old child.:love_heart: The physical and sexual abuse I incurred were nothing in comparison with the emotional horror.
 
With ALL due respect.....Isn't it OBVIOUS that the rest of us that have spanked our kids, REALIZE that what happened to Holly, Glinda, and Shimar was horrific and that we feel very sad this happened to them? Seriously... A wap on the behind with a flat palm cannot be equated to this.... and I am offended by the implication that to do so means I or the others abused our kids.... Again... Sorry all this happened to you guys, but DO NOT put me or the others in the same pot as your psychopathic parents.. Please... Thank you.. NOW... I'm out of this thread.,
 
QuickSilver said:
Isn't it OBVIOUS that the rest of us that have spanked our kids, REALIZE that what happened to Holly, Glinda, and Shimar was horrific and that we feel very sad this happened to them? Seriously... A wap on the behind with a flat palm cannot be equated to this.... and I am offended by the implication that to do so means I or the others abused our kids.... Again... Sorry all this happened to you guys, but DO NOT put me or the others in the same pot as your psychopathic parents..
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I think you've really over-reacted here QS..I certainly didn't imply in any of my posts that YOU or anyone else..abused your children...however calling our parents psychopaths is offensive...yes one of my parents was a a viscious bully..the other just as much his victim as we kids were who took her own life at the young age of 39years old to escape him and the abuse....

I have never implied you were abusive to your children, or called you or your family members an offensive name ...I would appreciate it if you afforded me Glinda and Shalimar the same courtesy.
 
Misty said:
Holly so sorry about all the abuse you went through while growing up...it brought tears. You are a Beautiful Lady both inside and out, and have such a happy personality, one would never guess all the torment you lived through. Much love to you, and also to Shalimar and Glinda for their suffering through abuse while growing up. ((((((Hugs))))))
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Misty bless you, thank you for your kind words.:love_heart:..I didn't do it to get sympathy , but to highlight that some children as Seabreeze so succinctly said and I agree too..how easily a smacking can turn into a beating..in some cases.
 
hollydolly said:
I think you've really over-reacted here QS..I certainly didn't imply in any of my posts that YOU or anyone else..abused your children...however calling our parents psychopaths is offensive...yes one of my parents was a a viscious bully..the other just as much his victim as we kids were who took her own life at the young age of 39years old to escape him and the abuse....

I have never implied you were abusive to your children, or called you or your family members an offensive name ...I would appreciate it if you afforded me Glinda and Shalimar the same courtesy.
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Really? What do YOU call grown adults who injure, sexually abuse or otherwise terrify a small child? BUT... I apologize for offending you.
 
Thank you for your timely clarification, Holly. This is the truth. The anger and name calling upset me. It is not easy to peel back one's skin to expose the raw flesh beneath, but to have one's motives scorned is painful indeed. Even worse when it is a woman.
 
Shalimar said:
Thank you for your timely clarification, Holly. This is the truth. The anger and name calling upset me. It is not easy to peel back one's skin to expose the raw flesh beneath, but to have one's motives scorned is painful indeed. Even worse when it is a woman.
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Now who is over reacting.. I don't believe anyone scorned you, your experiences or your motives... I felt the SCORN from your direction at anyone who dared spank their children or the implication that we were not very atuned to a "better way"... That was offensive to me..
 
QuickSilver said:
Really? What do YOU call grown adults who injure, sexually abuse or otherwise terrify a small child? BUT... I apologize for offending you.
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I just told you what my father was..he was a Vicious bully to his wife and children ..my mother was a victim who suffered from serious depression due to his bullying and turned to alcohol and prescription meds as an escape from it, but it made her very angry at times so she would lash out also occasionally. Neither of them were psychopaths...and if you continue with this I will put you on ignore because you are being completely and utterly offensive .
 
Shalimar said:
My mother, although A narcissist, was not the main perpetrator of my abuse. She does not merit the psychopathic label. Why can you not apologize? We all make mistakes. ,
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I did.. But.. someone who witnesses a child being abused and does not stop it.. is pretty much an accomplice. If anyone.. even their father abused my kids like that... I'd have taken their head off... and gotten my kids out of harms way. Do you not think that was her responsibility?

I think this is getting too intense and too personal... Perhaps we should end this conversation.. Again.. sorry for the offense..
 
Shalimar said:
Thank you for your timely clarification, Holly. This is the truth. The anger and name calling upset me. It is not easy to peel back one's skin to expose the raw flesh beneath, but to have one's motives scorned is painful indeed. Even worse when it is a woman.
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I absolutely agree Shali..
 
Thank you for your apology, QS. With respect, you are attributing blame without knowing the facts. My mother was not knowledgable re the abuse i suffered, for the very good reason, had I told, she would have been killed. This is not a world, thank goodness, that you comprehend. I agree, it is becoming too intense.
 
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