AZ Jim
R.I.P. With Us In Spirit Only
- Location
- SURPRISE, ARIZONA
Does seem kinda warm.
State of the Union
- Thread starter QuickSilver
- Start date
Does seem kinda warm.
QuickSilver
SF VIP
- Location
- Midwest
BECAUSE... Bush and Cheney were 150% positive that Saddam had WEAPONS OF MASS DISTRUCTION..... hidden in every nook and Crannie... and it was this out and out LIE that got the vote in Congress.. That has been well documented and proven... Bush and Cheney wanted to go to war and used any way they could think of to trick Congress
Josiah
Senior Member
- Location
- 50 miles east of Cincinnati, OH
I don't think quicksilver's posts on this thread have insulted any of the other participants. She has made her positive feelings about the President clear and she has explained her criticisms of the Republican party quite clearly. That's what a political thread is all about.
This is why I tried to avoid these macro all you need to know threads because the politics come out fast and furious rather than focusing on the idea or proposal. Then you have pages to read through.
This thread reminds of the Ramones. I keep on thinking about a "brat"- don't say it
What is needed now is a sitar(I think that's what it's called) solo.
QuickSilver
SF VIP
- Location
- Midwest
Thank you... I have debated on political forums for years and years.. I know they can be heated.. but I am very careful to NOT personally attack any participant or call them names.. NOW when it comes to their political opinions ... that's a different story. If someone chooses to take it personally, I cannot help that. Perhaps they should not get into a political debate then. Look at the things said directly about me.... I ignore it.
AZ Jim
R.I.P. With Us In Spirit Only
- Location
- SURPRISE, ARIZONA
I personally did not read any personal attacks by QS. In any event why don't we just let it go since it seems so hot button?
Jackie22
Well-known Member
- Location
- Northeast Texas
I agree, in fact, I've seen her walk away from insults made to her, better than I can do sometimes.
Some posts on this thread have been removed. We don't all agree on political issues or candidates, and often give our reasons or opinions on why we oppose one group or the other. Referring to a political party in a negative way should not be taken personally by any of us. Personal attacks and sniping at each other however, are not welcome here on this forum, please exercise some control, thanks. https://www.seniorforums.com/showthread.php/7815-Serious-Discussions-in-the-Forums
Josiah
Senior Member
- Location
- 50 miles east of Cincinnati, OH
I think the thread is about finished, but I don't want this thread to serve as a precedent for stifling future political debates. I would be very unhappy if I felt that I could not express an opinion about an idea (not an SF member) because I knew that someone didn't agree with my opinion.
Don M.
SF VIP
- Location
- central Missouri
Some interesting perspectives on the SOTU, and particularly the National Debt, have surfaced in this thread. Insofar as the SOTU, and Obama's proposals are concerned....Only Time will tell, but the general consensus is probably that while they sound good, not much will happen....especially with our "Bought and Paid For" Congress.
As for the National Debt....these charts clearly show how deeply the nation went into debt to finance WWII, and how the government and people pulled together in the ensuing years to pay that debt down. Back then, is seems that most people cared about their nation, and this led to what was probably this nations best years in the 1960's thru the 1980's. NOW, everyone is divided, and Partisanship rules, and the needs of the nation seem to come in a distant 2nd. This Blame Game, and Finger Pointing Partisanship does not bode well for future generations. Maybe if those on the Extreme Left and Right cease insulting each other, and began to work together, our grandkids won't face such a dismal future.
As for the National Debt....these charts clearly show how deeply the nation went into debt to finance WWII, and how the government and people pulled together in the ensuing years to pay that debt down. Back then, is seems that most people cared about their nation, and this led to what was probably this nations best years in the 1960's thru the 1980's. NOW, everyone is divided, and Partisanship rules, and the needs of the nation seem to come in a distant 2nd. This Blame Game, and Finger Pointing Partisanship does not bode well for future generations. Maybe if those on the Extreme Left and Right cease insulting each other, and began to work together, our grandkids won't face such a dismal future.
QuickSilver
SF VIP
- Location
- Midwest
I feel the same Josiah.. It would be a shame if this subforum was stifled and ruined because of this.
QuickSilver
SF VIP
- Location
- Midwest
BUT.. how did we get out of debt from WWII? Eisenhower did it by spending!..... yes.. spending!! He built the interstate highway system.. he built schools and hospitals.. he put people to work and they in turn paid taxes that paid down the debt.... and it had a snowball effect. The more people working and having money the more the economy grew because there was a demand for goods and services.. THAT created more jobs in other sectors and those people paid taxes and spent money.. That's Demand economics 101. Austeritiy is NEVER the way to fix an ecconomy.. Look at Europe. They went the austerity route and now are suffering.
Don M.
SF VIP
- Location
- central Missouri
That's true...Eisenhower spent Billions to build the Interstates, and put people back to work. BUT...if you track the history of income tax rates during that time, the rates went as high as 92% on those in the highest brackets. Eisenhower was smart enough to Spend vast sums of money, while bringing in the necessary revenues to pay for all those expenses...AND pay Down the National Debt, at the same time. Try that today with our Dumbchit Congress, who doesn't seem to give a rats youknowwhat about the future. If an individual wants to buy something, they know they will have to pay for it....that principle seems to escape Washington thinking, anymore. No one likes higher taxes, but if we want a decent nation, and things like road and bridges that aren't ready to collapse, we will have to pay for it. This Pushing the Bills down the road for future people to deal with is the Most Irresponsible way to govern...IMO.
QuickSilver
SF VIP
- Location
- Midwest
YES..... I know how high the income taxes were under Eisenhower.. That just goes to prove that taxes do NOT hurt the economy.. Taxes were 72% under Clinton... Taxes don't hurt the economy because companies kept their profits in their business rather than take them and hide them overseas. They took a modest amount for the CEOs salaries and bonues and invested the rest in expansion, research, and hiring new employees... THAT was how companies avoided the high taxes... There was no such thing as the bonuses we see these days.. NOW? It's all free money! Pull the profits, and put them in tax havens.. That does nothing to create jobs or stimulate the economy. This is why "trickle down" is such a joke.. NOthing trickles down..
Here's some information and a couple more charts on personal income and government debt under both republican and democrat leadership...for any who are interested. I'm still learning things as I read along both on and off the forum. Thanks to everyone here for your input and opinions. http://thegreatrecession.info/blog/...icans-us-national-debt-graphs-year-president/
AZ Jim
R.I.P. With Us In Spirit Only
- Location
- SURPRISE, ARIZONA
Interesting. Thanks for posting.
Not all the hiding from taxes sent our companies overseas. When IBM first started the home type computers they cost many thousand dollars for minimum utility. Then as the competition started to take over and much greater function was being offered there started a basic cost per function pricing war. We could no longer pay large wages to assemblers and for parts. So much of our computer items and builds went overseas to the very low income and wage countries. The cost started going down and today we have some nice desktops and portables that can do many very complex things nearly instantly and only pay about $1,500 t0 $3,000 dollars for real good machines. My very first desk top cost nearly $4,000 and it could barely read and post on the screen. It had something a bit better than high school math capabilities. Really primitive compared to how our desk tops can work today.
Anyway, price competition drove our compaies overseas for our electronics devices and I still think that is the way it is today. Engineered where ever but then built in low income nations like China, Taiwan, Philippines, and so forth. For the US, some things have changed enough that some items once sent away are now being returned.
Anyway, price competition drove our compaies overseas for our electronics devices and I still think that is the way it is today. Engineered where ever but then built in low income nations like China, Taiwan, Philippines, and so forth. For the US, some things have changed enough that some items once sent away are now being returned.
I watched the State-of-the-Union speech live.
Your President is a very charismatic speaker, he had no notes,
nor was there any sign of an auto-cue.
The content of the speech was full of sense and popular things
that the people would like to see happening.
It is therefore in my opinion full of traps for the opposition party,
when they veto all of his proposals, proposals that the public would
really like, then that I think will help the person that his party chooses
to stand to succeed him in office.
Mike.
Your President is a very charismatic speaker, he had no notes,
nor was there any sign of an auto-cue.
The content of the speech was full of sense and popular things
that the people would like to see happening.
It is therefore in my opinion full of traps for the opposition party,
when they veto all of his proposals, proposals that the public would
really like, then that I think will help the person that his party chooses
to stand to succeed him in office.
Mike.
Mike, I was amazed as you about how he can keep talking fast and keep up bringing new ideas and data to the speech. Then in a few of the camera views the edge of a teleprompter could be seen. So he did have a good tech type of prompter to keep him going on course and completely solid in his speaking. Do all folks want the same ideas running? Not at all, and that is obvious in the ways others have reacted to what he has done to the US over the years.
Obama has always been a good speaker.
Denise1952
Well-known Member
I second that Bob, and was glad to read Mike's input.
QuickSilver
SF VIP
- Location
- Midwest
Very astute of you Mike. President Obama is not stupid... In the last 6 years the GOP has obstructed most of what he has wanted to accomplish. He knows that now that they temporarialy have the majority in Congress there is little hope of getting these things done. We all understand that. Apparently the GOP feels getting a majority was the goal... governing is not. There will continue to be grid-lock until the Democrats regain the House and Senate.
That said.. Yes.. the speech was a political speech in preparation for the 2016 election. It WAS for the middle class.. It was for the benefit of the Democrat who will succeed him and for the Democrats running for the 24 Senate seats up for election in 2016. It was an outline of his legacy and the things that he feels needs to be done for the American people and the torch those running in 2016 will pick up and run with.
Bob, I don't really understand the American Election System,
but I assume that the man voted in as President must have
received most votes, so that has to be 50%+ of the people
who voted.
These people voted for him because they like, him, his policies
and his "Get it Done" attitude, this to me means that they are
all of the same party as the other party followers would be voting
for their man too.
Having explained how I see it, I think that these same people will
vote for the next man/woman from his party if they add to their
policies, "I intend to try and finish off what President Obama has
started by adopting some of his ideas".
This new person is speaking to 50%+ of the people who like and
want these changes and surely has a good chance of keeping the
majority.
I will watch with interest how the next Presidential Election unfolds.
Mike.