Supreme Court overturning Roe v Wade?

Getting back to "Abortion"....all these State laws, and a Supreme Court ruling against Roe vs. Wade will just put a increasing number of women's lives and health at risk....as many return to the days of "back alley" abortions....which was the driving force behind R vs. W, to begin with.
 

Getting back to "Abortion"....all these State laws, and a Supreme Court ruling against Roe vs. Wade will just put a increasing number of women's lives and health at risk....as many return to the days of "back alley" abortions....which was the driving force behind R vs. W, to begin with.
And it will be the women without the means to travel to another state that will be forced to carry their babies to term, so the residents of that particular state will end up footing the bill. Such an expensive proposition just to enforce a political point, but then our politics these days overwhelmingly have nothing to do with the interest of the "people".
 
Supreme Court has voted to overturn abortion rights, draft opinion shows - POLITICO

This hasn't happened yet, but the Supreme Court seems to be indicating that that is what they are planning. It sounds to me like this would end Federal protection of abortion rights, but each state would have to vote (probably continuously) on whether it is legal. The predictable result would be that women seeking abortion would have to travel to the states where it is still legal. This would mainly affect those who are too poor to travel.

Do you think this will ever happen, or will some of the justices change their minds?
Just trying to get the post back on track... Abortion: Roe vs Wade
 

True, as the statutes Mens Rea is "With the Intent", orderly non disruptive behavior, etc. is permitted.

Oh? "with the intent of influencing any judge, juror, witness, or court officer, in the discharge of his duty, pickets or parades" sounds pretty clear (and not "disruptive)" to me. Influencing does not equate to disruption, and in any case, what are pickets doing in front of a judges home or court if the intention is not to "influence"?

Once again, here is the wording of the law ...

18 U.S. Code § 1507 - Picketing or parading​

"Whoever, with the intent of interfering with, obstructing, or impeding the administration of justice, or with the intent of influencing any judge, juror, witness, or court officer, in the discharge of his duty, pickets or parades in or near a building housing a court of the United States, or in or near a building or residence occupied or used by such judge, juror, witness, or court officer, or with such intent uses any sound-truck or similar device or resorts to any other demonstration in or near any such building or residence, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both."
(Added Sept. 23, 1950, ch. 1024, title I, § 31(a), 64 Stat. 1018; amended Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(K), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)"
 
Again, the emphasis is on the culpable mental state of INTENT. Simply picketing in front of a Justices house, "in and of itself" will not rise to the definition/case law of a proof of Intent in a court. That's my opinion.
 
Since you love questions, to be brief, here is a question for you, and in fact for both of us -- although I think you know my answer. If you disagree with the interpretation of the Constitution by our Supreme Court justices, should we ...

A. Harass the judges and picket their homes? (Probably illegal by the way.)
Or ...
B. Amend the Constitution to eliminate any discord on its meaning?

A simple "A" or "B" will suffice. (-8

The answer to A is absolutely not!

For B, the constitution already has taken a position on privacy and it would be wise to return to protecting people's privacy. Protecting our privacy is about having an abortion and also being able to get a good job after being convicted for doing something wrong, or suspected of being homosexual, or having a debt problem and so much more.

Surely Jesus would not approve of what we are doing today and evangelicals are not following Jesus. We are marginalizing people and Texas rewarding people for reporting their family and neighbors is headed in the direction Nazi Germany went. That is what made the Witch Hunts so corrupt as people reported witches so they could get the benefit of destroying another. Something has gone very wrong with our democracy and if we don't immediately start defending it in the classroom, it will be lost.
 
@ElCastor
Oh? "with the intent of influencing any judge, juror, witness, or court officer, in the discharge of his duty, pickets or parades" sounds pretty clear (and not "disruptive)" to me. Influencing does not equate to disruption, and in any case, what are pickets doing in front of a judges home or court if the intention is not to "influence"?

Easy-------RAGE!
The display of which is not illegal but covered by First Amendment. RAGE is not to influence, it's to exhibit, because it is necessary to reveal.
 
Again, the emphasis is on the culpable mental state of INTENT. Simply picketing in front of a Justices house, "in and of itself" will not rise to the definition/case law of a proof of Intent in a court. That's my opinion.
But what is the moral? If we tolerate such threatening behavior, such a violation of the privacy of others, what will follow? Anyone who considers how it would feel to have an angry mob in front of his/her home knows the intent is intimidation. Our homes and private lives should not be violated.
 
It seems that as long as the protesters keep moving, they're not violating the law. It's only stationary protests in front of a justice's house that are illegal.
https://www.politifact.com/article/2022/may/13/it-legal-protest-outside-justices-homes-law-sugges/

What if it were your home and you were the target of the protest? Of course, this would not be happening if the individual's freedom of choice were respected. People need to stop pushing their judgments on others and seriously need to return to being respectful and minding our own business as Jesus told us to do.
 
Liked your post #557 @Vida May, except for the Jesus part which is totally unnecessary to include in this issue IMO. In fact, Jesus is a distraction, and so will become an obstacle.

I think morals are essential and I think Jesus gave us some good ones, and I think some Christians mean well but violent the teachings of Jesus. From the beginning of civilizations, laws have been based on a knowledge of Gods and I think we had better laws and a better culture when our laws were based on the Bible, except for slavery. Both sides of the Civil War used the Bible to defend their position and both thought they were doing the will of God.

Besides, we are not supposed to be political, but I am not aware of religious arguments being taboo. More serious is our loss of morality and wisdom because it is not possible to have liberty when the drive is to control individuals with laws instead of education for good moral judgment.

As I see it, a law against abortions is a law to prevent women from having sex less it is their intention to become pregnant. I stayed virgin until marriage and even after marriage if a woman didn't want to get pregnant she must avoid sex. :LOL: I wonder how many people opposing abortions realize that may interfere with people's sex lives. The "moral" is not just a matter of religious attitudes but sex leads to pregnancy and if one does not want a child, abstinence is the moral choice.
 
And it will be the women without the means to travel to another state that will be forced to carry their babies to term, so the residents of that particular state will end up footing the bill. Such an expensive proposition just to enforce a political point, but then our politics these days overwhelmingly have nothing to do with the interest of the "people".
Political point. 😱 I am quite sure there would be no Roe versus Wade argument if it were not for the religious drive and churches becoming political. And the thinking stops at being sure babies are not aborted. The well-being of the child after that is not taken into consideration, so there is no cost to consider. That is why people are fighting for abortions. They are the ones who really care about the lives these children will have.
 
Abortion is such an emotionally charged issue. Over the years I have changed my thinking about it. I was always opposed to abortion for me personally but qualified that opinion by saying I have fortunately never been in a position to have to decide. I if I were I might have chosen differently. If asked, I would say I am opposed but it is not my decision. Once the decision to abort was made I would be totally be supportive and nonjudgemental.
 
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@ElCastor
Oh? "with the intent of influencing any judge, juror, witness, or court officer, in the discharge of his duty, pickets or parades" sounds pretty clear (and not "disruptive)" to me. Influencing does not equate to disruption, and in any case, what are pickets doing in front of a judges home or court if the intention is not to "influence"?

Easy-------RAGE!
The display of which is not illegal but covered by First Amendment. RAGE is not to influence, it's to exhibit, because it is necessary to reveal.
If any of these pickets are arrested they can certainly try the rage defense in court. The hope of influencing a judges decision never even crossed their minds. Huh? Good luck with that.

BTW -- Just to be clear, I hope Roe v Wade is not reversed, but I am appalled by the spectacle of angry mobs in front of the Court and judges homes. Mobs that are in the grasp of rage, but at least in my opinion, are obviously desirous of influencing outcomes. Judges are what they are, and where they are, for the express purpose of being influenced by logical factual arguments presented in a court of law -- not the fear that some demonstrators might burn down their home or harm them or their family. These threats, by the way, are well documented in the press and come from both the Right and the Left.

"SCOTUS justices face barrage of death threats on social media ahead of potential Roe overturn"
https://nypost.com/2022/05/19/supre...-around-the-clock-home-security-amid-threats/
 
Young people expressing their feelings, sound familiar at all? Or were you not there? Every new generation has a bone to pick, Good. It's their lives, their future.
 
@ElCastor
Oh? "with the intent of influencing any judge, juror, witness, or court officer, in the discharge of his duty, pickets or parades" sounds pretty clear (and not "disruptive)" to me. Influencing does not equate to disruption, and in any case, what are pickets doing in front of a judges home or court if the intention is not to "influence"?

Easy-------RAGE!
The display of which is not illegal but covered by First Amendment. RAGE is not to influence, it's to exhibit, because it is necessary to reveal.
From a quote by Jonathan Turley, Law Professor at Georgetown:

"Ironically, prosecution could be difficult if the protesters said they had no intent other than to vent anger."
 
In my opinion, this is one of those 'no win' issues. From War Games (1983): The only way to win is not to play. Sadly, regardless what the court ends up doing, more people will be displeased than pleased. In other words, the Supreme Court can't possibly win against these odds, so the best course of action would be for them to just leave it alone, again, in my opinion. Don...
 
In my opinion, this is one of those 'no win' issues. From War Games (1983): The only way to win is not to play. Sadly, regardless what the court ends up doing, more people will be displeased than pleased. In other words, the Supreme Court can't possibly win against these odds, so the best course of action would be for them to just leave it alone, again, in my opinion. Don...
I have doubts that will happen, as the justices in question have a personal ax to grind re: Roe and so convinced are they of their righteousness they don't give a damn what the majority of citizens want. They have agendas.
 
In my opinion, this is one of those 'no win' issues. From War Games (1983): The only way to win is not to play. Sadly, regardless what the court ends up doing, more people will be displeased than pleased. In other words, the Supreme Court can't possibly win against these odds, so the best course of action would be for them to just leave it alone, again, in my opinion. Don...
That definitely would have been their best course of action, but they were appointed specifically to NOT leave it alone. They were chosen because of their views denying the Constitutional protections for abortion, and now they're doing what they were put on the court to do, regardless of public opinion or scientific consensus.

The new restrictions in some cases and total bans on abortion in others are specifically enacted to appease religious voters, regardless of the harm it causes individuals and society. And it is already causing harm to society by increasing polarization. As bad as things were, because of the actions of radical SCOTUS justices, things are now getting a lot worse.

Yep, they could have just left it alone and thought about the good of the country. Roe vs. Wade was decided 50 years ago. There was no need to rehash established law and force certain religious views on everyone, regardless of faith or lack thereof.
 
Young people expressing their feelings, sound familiar at all? Or were you not there? Every new generation has a bone to pick, Good. It's their lives, their future.
Young people expressing their feelings? Are you kidding? As a college student I was very familiar with the scent of tear gas in the air and in my eyes. As a poster aficionado I collected protest posters of the 50's and 60's and a few years ago contributed them to a college library.

No problem with free speech and young people expressing their feelings. The problem is when they choose the home of a Supreme Court justice for their "expression" and post death threats on social media. That is why we have a federal law specifically prohibiting demonstrations intended to "influence" -- "in or near a building housing a court of the United States, or in or near a building or residence occupied or used by such judge, juror, witness". I am fully in support of that law, and hope you are too. Judges and jurors should be influenced by the law and court testimony/deliberations, not an angry mob..
 
The Supreme Court has the ability to defend our rights or phuck them up. If the latter, Go For It.

Having protest posters sounds like a lovely, interesting decor, but that's all and means nothing. It's not what were you, it's who you are now, it's where you are now.

If you're having trouble relating to the issue of women wanting to control their own bodies, I understand.

How do you know, on Social Media, exactly who is issuing threats? Since I haven't seen any I really don't know what you mean. I don't use Twitter or Facebook. I couldn't begin to trace any threats to it's actual source, unless specifically told Who is making them.
 
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Young people expressing their feelings? Are you kidding? As a college student I was very familiar with the scent of tear gas in the air and in my eyes. As a poster aficionado I collected protest posters of the 50's and 60's and a few years ago contributed them to a college library.

No problem with free speech and young people expressing their feelings. The problem is when they choose the home of a Supreme Court justice for their "expression" and post death threats on social media. That is why we have a federal law specifically prohibiting demonstrations intended to "influence" -- "in or near a building housing a court of the United States, or in or near a building or residence occupied or used by such judge, juror, witness". I am fully in support of that law, and hope you are too. Judges and jurors should be influenced by the law and court testimony/deliberations, not an angry mob..
I agree that judges and jurors for trials involving statutory law shouldn't be harassed, but SCOTUS justices are different animals; they're deciding Constitutional law. And when they have extreme biases that affect their decisions and pervert the original intent when the Constitution was amended throughout the years, people have an obligation to protest. Loyalty to our country means being loyal to the Constitution — not to the church.

Our Founding Fathers emerged out of the Age of Reason and fought against the irrationality of the church. Their intention was to "set up a wall between church and state."

Some people seem to want to return to the Dark Ages where the church reigned supreme. There are plenty of other countries where they could live like that, but America is a secular nation, or at least that was the intention of our Founders.
 
I agree that judges and jurors for trials involving statutory law shouldn't be harassed, but SCOTUS justices are different animals; they're deciding Constitutional law. And when they have extreme biases that affect their decisions and pervert the original intent when the Constitution was amended throughout the years, people have an obligation to protest. Loyalty to our country means being loyal to the Constitution — not to the church.

Our Founding Fathers emerged out of the Age of Reason and fought against the irrationality of the church. Their intention was to "set up a wall between church and state."

Some people seem to want to return to the Dark Ages where the church reigned supreme. There are plenty of other countries where they could live like that, but America is a secular nation, or at least that was the intention of our Founders.
I am not religious and am perfectly OK with Roe v Wade as it stands, but I am a strong believer in the SC and the independence of its judges. Any decision of the Court will always have those who disagree, but disagreement is not a license to issue death threats and parade in front of the homes of judges. We need to respect the law, and those who disagree with a new (but yet to happen) decision on Roe V Wade need to calm down and work to amend the Constitution. Mob rule is not the way our democracy works, nor should it ever be the way.
 
The Supreme Court has the ability to defend our rights or phuck them up. If the latter, Go For It.

Having protest posters sounds like a lovely, interesting decor, but that's all and means nothing. It's not what were you, it's who you are now, it's where you are now.

If you're having trouble relating to the issue of women wanting to control their own bodies, I understand.

How do you know, on Social Media, exactly who is issuing threats? Since I haven't seen any I really don't know what you mean. I don't use Twitter or Facebook. I couldn't begin to trace any threats to it's actual source, unless specifically told Who is making them.
Decor? Never had a protest poster on the wall. I swiped them on weekends to preserve what I believed was an interesting slice of 50s and 60s history. The library I donated them to was glad to get them.

I'm not having trouble with women wanting to control their own bodies. As I said in a previous post, a woman close to me had an abortion, and I completely supported her in that. My concern is for the Constitution and the rule of law versus rule of the mob. Why aren't you, and others who feel as you do, talking about an amendment? That's the way our democracy functions -- not with death threats and picketing judges homes. By the way, from what I can tell, elements of both the Left and Right are participating. I support the Left in its goal, but not some of its methods.
 


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