Syrian Refugee Crisis

I know this will get attacked on this thread but to me it is where we all are not doing what we could and should be doing for at least a year now.

All the European countries, England, US, Canada, Australia, and whomever else fears for the innocents of the Arab areas should be putting troops in the area specifically to shut down those nasty ISIS and other killer mentalities that are forcing so many thousands away from their homes and running to where ever they can to avoid these cruel killings they are threatened with. Why should they be run from their homes of centuries. Why should these crazy folks be allowed to destroy large areas and kill all, men, women, children, who they don't like. This is just not right at all. As soon as they get done killing or driving away all they can their territory will just be made larger and larger till this madness is all over the world.

Can Europe and the Americas and Australia keep taking all these unfortunate ones for long. Probably not too long until safety and food and health all become stressed and unable to keep up. Those folks deserve to have their homes and not be run around. We should be able to keep our homes. We should be ready to face those killers chasing and killing the people and end their existence so the can no longer kill the innocents.

For all the cowards that won't allow folks to defend themselves or others to help. Time to wake up. These are not good times in this world.
 
There is no simple solution Bob because the conditions are different in each country. In some it is war, others persecution by the government/regime and in others if is economic collapse.

Syria is a case in point. ISIS is active there in, I think, the north but the Assad government in the south has killed many more people than ISIS. Russia is supporting Assad and apparently now has troops on the ground. America and some allies are attacking ISIS and ISIS is laying waste to whole cities. Half the population has fled into neighbouring countries and after a while they move on, hoping to find safe haven where they can build a life.

Are you suggesting that America bomb ISIS and any civilians still trapped with them into the stone age but leave Assad in place because of his powerful ally? Would this encourage you to return to Syria from the safety of Germany or Sweden if you had managed to escape?

Sorting out some of these societies will take decades. In the meantime we have people in crisis who need help. Those with the capacity to help are morally obliged to come forward.
 

I don't think you saw what I was proposing at all. I say all countries, including Russia if willing, would put an end to the ISIS and other killing and destroying groups. What is need over their is a monster police force that would stop these radical groups, no matter what they call themselves. Where is the UN forces that once were called to help end things like this. Is the UN on vacation these days or have all the capable countries decided to not help.

We have some operating out of Syria and more out of Iran. Those in Iran have been threatening the US recently. There are other nasty groups in that area and they won't quite till others stand in their way and make them stop. This push them away or kill them is something that must be stopped. We can't all just stand back an do nothing as that will be a permission to those radicals to just keep expanding and killing.
 
Are you saying the USA cannot do anything... we are too poor... and the undocumented workers are causing us to NOT be able to help with the Syrian refugees? Is that what you are saying???

No...I Am Not saying the U.S. is too poor to help...let me clarify my position for you...since you seem to be So "Selective".

First, I don't trust the Muslims. Any populace who follows the teachings of the Quran (Koran) explicitly...with its numerous references to killing all "Infidels", is Not to be trusted, and This Infidel would certainly not be so Stupid as to welcome such people into my presence. Here is a summation of the many quotes in the teachings of Islam which reference the elimination of All Non-Believers. I would urge anyone who thinks that bringing these people into the Western nations is a good thing, to read these quotes carefully.

http://www.wvinter.net/~haught/Koran.html

Second, this Middle East refugee crisis, And the flow of illegals into the U.S. is just the beginning of what will become a major problem for the Western nations in coming years. These issues are ALL a symptom of the biggest underlying problem humanity will face...Overpopulation. Numerous studies have come to the conclusion that about 5 billion people is the maximum population that this planet can sustain...and allow for a decent standard of living. We are already well over 7 billion, with 9 billion expected by mid century, and perhaps as many as 12 billion by the end of this century. Given that automation and robotics are already taking over many once good paying jobs, and many parts of the world cannot supply sufficient food for existing populations...adding billions more to the planet will Certainly result in a major problem. Even the wealthy nations will face such problems, as there will be fewer opportunities for people to carve out a decent existence for themselves. No amount of government "assistance" is going to be able to withstand the demands placed upon it, when these numbers are reached. Only if those still lucky enough to have a good job are taxed for 50%, or more, of their income to support those who are unemployed, will government aid be sustainable....and you can guess how many people will be willing to give up half of their incomes to support such aid.

Humanity is headed for a Brick Wall, as a result of this unchecked population growth...and I firmly believe the crisis will erupt in the latter half of this century. Humanity is going to face One More War...and it will Not be so much Nation vs. Nation....but rather the Haves against the Have Not's. It will be more a "developed" world vs. the "undeveloped"...and will even include places like our wealthier suburbs vs. the inner city ghetto's. The Bible refers to it as Armageddon, but the writers of those verses could not foresee the specific conditions in today's world that would trigger the Event....but their basic premise is quickly coming to fruition.

So, Yes...it is certainly a tragedy to see things like this Syrian mess, and the horrible living conditions that pervade so many poorer areas...but many of the problems these people face are largely a result of their own bad decisions, and their inability to adhere to the basic laws of Supply and Demand. It is wishful thinking that we can resolve such issues by continually "Giving".

The 22nd Century is going to see a Dawn of a new direction for humanity. If the Have Not's prevail, humans will be living much as they did in the Dark Ages. If the Haves prevail, the world will begin to come together as One Nation, under a common government, and language, and Humans will reach for the stars.
 
Oh... ok.... People make a bad decision being born in certain countries.. If they were smart.. they would have been born here in the USA.. I get it..
 
I don't think you saw what I was proposing at all. I say all countries, including Russia if willing, would put an end to the ISIS and other killing and destroying groups. What is need over their is a monster police force that would stop these radical groups, no matter what they call themselves. Where is the UN forces that once were called to help end things like this. Is the UN on vacation these days or have all the capable countries decided to not help.

We have some operating out of Syria and more out of Iran. Those in Iran have been threatening the US recently. There are other nasty groups in that area and they won't quite till others stand in their way and make them stop. This push them away or kill them is something that must be stopped. We can't all just stand back an do nothing as that will be a permission to those radicals to just keep expanding and killing.

Have you forgotten that the five permanent members of the Security Council have a veto over UN resolutions. The UK, France, China, Russia and the US can stop UN peacekeeping efforts. The UN does not fight wars but individual nations do - yours is one of the most enthusiastic and on a smaller scale, so is mine.
 
Here's something to help put things in perspective.. This is a Syrian refugee camp in Jordan..

file-04-zaatari_0.jpg
 
Oh... ok.... People make a bad decision being born in certain countries.. If they were smart.. they would have been born here in the USA.. I get it..

No, You Don't "Get it". Nation of birth is Not a guarantee of prosperity. Over 45 million people in the U.S., the vast majority of which were born and raised here, live in poverty. Meanwhile, the number of billionaires...all over the world, has increased to almost 1900. There are very rich, and very poor in virtually All nations. A minor percentage of the poor are that way because of disabilities, and health problems, etc. Many of the others....at least in the U.S., have joined those ranks because of their failure to pay attention in school, or have succumbed to a life centered around Booze and Drugs, or have allowed their "virility" to saddle them with more children than they can afford to raise. There are any number of reasons why people live in poverty, here....but the majority can put most of the blame on the person they see in the mirror.
 
No, You Don't "Get it". Nation of birth is Not a guarantee of prosperity. Over 45 million people in the U.S., the vast majority of which were born and raised here, live in poverty. Meanwhile, the number of billionaires...all over the world, has increased to almost 1900. There are very rich, and very poor in virtually All nations. A minor percentage of the poor are that way because of disabilities, and health problems, etc. Many of the others....at least in the U.S., have joined those ranks because of their failure to pay attention in school, or have succumbed to a life centered around Booze and Drugs, or have allowed their "virility" to saddle them with more children than they can afford to raise. There are any number of reasons why people live in poverty, here....but the majority can put most of the blame on the person they see in the mirror.

Yeah... so? What has this got to do with how many Syrian refugees the US takes in? Whose to say many of the won't "MAKE IT" if given the chance here?
 
I am saddened when I hear all Muslims targeted as untrustworthy because of selective passages of the Quran. The Christian Bible has no shortage of verses dedicated to all manner of death, destruction, slavery, incest etc. Does that make all Christians untrustworthy? Hardly. Stuff taken out of context. As for blame the victim rationality, that is a prime example of avoidance. Simplistic in the extreme. Syrian refugees, many of them children, need our help. Either our nations are compassionate, supposedly Christian (by many people's standards,) countries, or we are hypocrites who don't walk the talk. We should at least be honest about it.
 
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[h=1]“If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition and then admit that we just don't want to do it.”[/h]
Stephen Colbert
 
Light the Dark vigils are taking place across Australia in support of compassion for refugees.
It took the death of a little boy to give a human face to their plight.

Thousands gather in Melbourne's Treasury Gardens for Light The Dark vigil for asylum seekers

Mon 7 Sep 2015



Thousands of people have gathered in Melbourne's Treasury Gardens in a vigil for asylum seekers and to honour the toddler found drowned on a Turkish beach. Organisers called on those gathered at the Light The Dark vigil to light a candle for Aylan Kurdi, who died fleeing from Syria with his family. The photo has become a symbol of the Syrian asylum seekers fleeing their homeland in the European crisis.

Participants wanted to send a message of solidarity and welcome for asylum seekers across the world. One woman carried a sign saying "we are sorry" and "welcome refugees". The participants called on the Federal Government to welcome more refugees and paused for a minute of silence for the dead boy.

"We will keep coming out to fight, to light the dark until our Government opens its heart and opens the door," Pamela Curr, of the Asylum Seeker Resource Centre, told the crowd. "We need to open our hearts. We've done it before and we'll do it again."

Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews echoed that message earlier when he called on the Federal Government to increase the number of humanitarian refugees for Australia. Opposition Leader Matthew Guy backed the call and said the former army barracks at Point Nepean could be used to house the refugees.

Similar rallies were also held in Perth, Sydney and Adelaide and others will be held in Brisbane and Canberra later this week.


Photo: Thousands of people braved showers to attend a rally in support of refugees at Treasury Gardens. (ABC News: Stephanie Anderson)
 
Nice, but there are limits to what a nation can absorb and the limit seems to being reached...
 
.....We have some operating out of Syria and more out of Iran. Those in Iran have been threatening the US recently. There are other nasty groups in that area and they won't quite till others stand in their way and make them stop. This push them away or kill them is something that must be stopped. We can't all just stand back an do nothing as that will be a permission to those radicals to just keep expanding and killing.

Actually Bob, it's not Iran that ISIS is in (and controlling), it's Iraq. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...up-s-tentacles-reach-Algeria-Afghanistan.html

And according to a CBC report http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/isis-p...-nearly-a-year-of-coalition-bombing-1.3087136, ISIS hasn't been harmed much at all by a years worth of coalition attacks.
 
Tough... WE are a rich nation.. we can WELL afford to "take care of our own" and many others... IF the greedy didn't hold the puppet strings in Washington. To say we cannot take in thousands of these people is NONSENSE...
 
I am saddened when I hear all Muslims targeted as untrustworthy because of selective passages of the Quran. The Christian Bible has no shortage of verses dedicated to all manner of death, destruction, slavery, incest etc. Does that make all Christians untrustworthy? Hardly. Stuff taken out of context. As for blame the victim rationality, that is a prime example of avoidance. Simplistic in the extreme. Syrian refugees, many of them children, need our help. Either our nations are compassionate, supposedly Christian (by many people's standards,) countries, or we are hypocrites who don't walk the talk. We should at least be honest about it.


Good points Shalimar. (PS I've tried several times to get the image off this comment and it just won't go. Oh well, has nothing to do with Shalimar's comment or my reply although I did include the link in an earlier comment)
 

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Actually Bob, it's not Iran that ISIS is in (and controlling), it's Iraq. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...up-s-tentacles-reach-Algeria-Afghanistan.html

And according to a CBC report http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/isis-p...-nearly-a-year-of-coalition-bombing-1.3087136, ISIS hasn't been harmed much at all by a years worth of coalition attacks.

Correction for you. I was speaking of Iran as they have already weakened Iraq and are threatening the US in their public speakings. Really surprised that the US is willing to give Iran freedom as those threats are made. We should keep Iran tethered some more. It was Iran that directly snubbed the US and took away our embassy and made all US folks to be prisoners. No real reason for the US to give Iran freedom to be nasty to others once again.

Random bombings won't do the job. It would be the armed interventions of many countries that could pull all those nations back toward sanity.
 
Tough... WE are a rich nation.. we can WELL afford to "take care of our own" and many others... IF the greedy didn't hold the puppet strings in Washington. To say we cannot take in thousands of these people is NONSENSE...

There is a "Side Effect" to this refugee crisis, which is being overlooked by most people. Sure, there are many families and small children making this exodus....but it is Also providing ISIS and other Muslim extremist groups a perfect conduit to infiltrate Western nations with dozens, perhaps hundreds of their radical supporters. ISIS is Not Stupid, and they see this as a golden opportunity to spread their extremism to the West. Do you think that the governments taking in these refugees are doing any kind of background check on these individuals?? Many of the wealthy Arab nations are refusing to take in any of these refugees because they are fully aware of the potential dangers involved.

http://www.breitbart.com/london/201...y-doing-so-exposes-them-to-risk-of-terrorism/

The U.S. is already taking in large numbers of "so called" refugees. Not only does our porous Southern border allow easy entry to any, and all, but our own government is actively engaged in taking in large numbers of "official" refugees. Here is a little know program that is currently in process.

http://www.wnd.com/2015/05/dhs-caug...alis-from-mexican-border/#sCePjPt6D8Z6vtCR.30

When future "Boston Marathon" bombings occur, perhaps some of the people who are fully in favor of this unchecked migration may have to rethink their positions.

I am especially confused by the thinking of Any Western Women who fully support this immigration. Do these women harbor a secret wish to spend their lives wearing a burka and veil, and being treated as Chattel???
 
If the extreme religious right of America, Christian, that is, have their way, women will be treated as chattels even without a burqa. Frankly, they are far more dangerous at this point re the desecration of hard fought women's rights than Muslim refugees.
 
There is a "Side Effect" to this refugee crisis, which is being overlooked by most people. Sure, there are many families and small children making this exodus....but it is Also providing ISIS and other Muslim extremist groups a perfect conduit to infiltrate Western nations with dozens, perhaps hundreds of their radical supporters. ISIS is Not Stupid, and they see this as a golden opportunity to spread their extremism to the West. Do you think that the governments taking in these refugees are doing any kind of background check on these individuals?? Many of the wealthy Arab nations are refusing to take in any of these refugees because they are fully aware of the potential dangers involved.

http://www.breitbart.com/london/201...y-doing-so-exposes-them-to-risk-of-terrorism/

The U.S. is already taking in large numbers of "so called" refugees. Not only does our porous Southern border allow easy entry to any, and all, but our own government is actively engaged in taking in large numbers of "official" refugees. Here is a little know program that is currently in process.

http://www.wnd.com/2015/05/dhs-caug...alis-from-mexican-border/#sCePjPt6D8Z6vtCR.30

When future "Boston Marathon" bombings occur, perhaps some of the people who are fully in favor of this unchecked migration may have to rethink their positions.

I am especially confused by the thinking of Any Western Women who fully support this immigration. Do these women harbor a secret wish to spend their lives wearing a burka and veil, and being treated as Chattel???


Heard a stat of 5% of those refugees probably up to no good or had a terrorist past or ties. This is why any country needs controlled immigration even if it's getting a photo and fingerprints along with their chosen name, reward those refugees by advancing them in the process if their background is more verifiable. Not saying toss the others back but you can't let them lose in society without some processing/investigations.
 
If the extreme religious right of America, Christian, that is, have their way, women will be treated as chattels even without a burqa. Frankly, they are far more dangerous at this point re the desecration of hard fought women's rights than Muslim refugees.

OH...Have I missed something??? Is there a church or religious group, consisting of more than a small handful of whacko's, that is advocating turning back the clock 100+ years??? I generally try to follow the news pretty closely, but if I have missed something, Please enlighten me.
 
Correction for you. I was speaking of Iran as they have already weakened Iraq and are threatening the US in their public speakings. Really surprised that the US is willing to give Iran freedom as those threats are made. We should keep Iran tethered some more. It was Iran that directly snubbed the US and took away our embassy and made all US folks to be prisoners. No real reason for the US to give Iran freedom to be nasty to others once again.

Random bombings won't do the job. It would be the armed interventions of many countries that could pull all those nations back toward sanity.


Bob, one thing that I've discovered in all of the reading that I've been doing over the past couple of years is that 'my enemy today......is my associate/ally tomorrow'. It is quite amazing really. I would also point out that 100 years ago, the US invaded Cuba, took away Guantanamo, than fifty years ago (approximates for number of years) laid sanctions against Cuba that impoverished that country and yet here' you and they' are today.....times change, leaders and agenda's change and grudges accomplish nothing as a rule. Japan would be another excellent example.

One thing that would probably help is if the US used its influence with the Saudi's, Qatar and Kuwait to bring about an end to the support that ISIS is apparently still receiving from groups in those countries. As late as 2014, those countries have wealthy donors that are making sure that ISIS is funded, supplied with arms, etc. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/06/14/america-s-allies-are-funding-isis.html
 


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