The Battle for Ramadi

Listened to General Odierno this morning... U.S. Army Chief of Staff. 2009 up until about 2 years ago, the Iraqi Army had both Shia and Sunni and things were marginally getting by. As Malakai began empowering the Shia in "his" army, the Sunni began falling out. Many joined ISIS/ISIL and those left in the Iraqi Army would not fight members of their own sect. The U.S. trainers in Iraq today are working with the mostly Shia Iraq Army, attempting to get them to able to defend their Country. The 450 additional trainers will be focused on setting up training sites for the few Sunni still attached in hopes more Sunni can be recruited to fight ISIS/ISIL.

Odierno's focus was this MUST be a fight handled by those in the region... NOT the U.S. He was adamant that if we took in ground troops and took out ISIS/ISIL, that would not stabilize the region since no one had "skin in the game". He said that at any time ISIS/ISIL developed to where they were an imminent and immediate threat to the U.S. homeland, all bets were off. Until then, he feels the strategy will be to empower and unite components within Iraq and to motivate regional governments to become more involved.
 

I don't know about a trap of that magnitude but we had better get on with really stopping them soon...
 
I think right now, few Sunni want to fight and die for a Shiite dominated government or country. Particularly when they don't really recognize Iraq and it's Western dictated borders as a country. This is exactly why ISIS exists in the first place.. to retaliate for the overthrow of Saddam Hussein, and to protest Sunnis pretty well being left out of the government. Kill off this group, and another will form. Do we want to play whack-a-mole forever?
 

They are expanding way beyond the ME and we had better pay attention now or suffer the consequences later...
 
Ralphy1 said:
They are expanding way beyond the ME and we had better pay attention now or suffer the consequences later...
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Personally... I think ISIS talks a pretty good game.. and I think much of their rhetoric is a recruitment tool to fire up people to come and fight on their side. We need to do whatever it takes to keep ourselves safe and to stop the homegrown Terrorists from functioning.
 
They are better organized, financed and led than we think. This is going to take a large amount of will and effort to eradicate them on all fronts...
 
I agree with Quicksilver. ISIS is not spreading beyond the ME except to recruit fighters. Al Qaeda is the group that targets foreign governments. What ISIS wants is to take over large tracts of the ME to establish a Sunni led caliphate. If they do, this could be their downfall because it is one thing to conquer a people but it is something else entirely to govern them.

Ralphy, when you say "we", I don't feel myself part of that pronoun. If Indonesia becomes destabilised by similar radical Islamists I won't feel any desire to go in and sort them out unless they start invading Singapore or PNG. Then I might consider it more personal.
 
What I think is happening in the ME is the eventual reversion to pre 1919 days before our meddling with borders. We have destabilized the region by removing Hussein, who nasty as he was, kept a lid on the centuries old fighting. The ME, will be carved up according to religion.. with a Sunni country. A Shiite country, and perhaps a Kurdish country. And guess what? They are not going to be democracies.. they will be hard core theocracies. Jeffersonian Democracy is OUR invention.. it's not something this area or these people want.. nor will they ever embrace it.
 
Churchill was a product of British Empire mindset. His choices reflect that. Re ISIS, unclear to me whether or not their rhetoric is genuine, but I don't feel we can take the chance that they will contain their actions to the Middle East. Also, their crimes against humanity are off the map. Even in a war setting, some actions are far beyond the fog of war.
 
The sun did finally set on the British empire, but let's hope that it doesn't on all of civilization...
 
Shalimar said:
Churchill was a product of British Empire mindset. His choices reflect that. Re ISIS, unclear to me whether or not their rhetoric is genuine, but I don't feel we can take the chance that they will contain their actions to the Middle East. Also, their crimes against humanity are off the map. Even in a war setting, some actions are far beyond the fog of war.
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I agree about their crimes.. but I also see that as part of the recruitment strategy.. Those able to be radicalized are turned on by that stuff.. It inflames and inspires them.
 
Ralphy, civilization has always been under threat, will continue to be so, until when, and if, we climb out of the sandbox and embrace something other than violence and greed. We need to grow up, it is becoming too dangerous to be testosterone crazed children any longer.
 
Ralphy1 said:
See how those dreams become reality for you when the "Hun".are at the door...
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Ralphy.... While I am loathe to take ISIS lightly.. and up front, let me say that they are a scourge and an menace.. I really stop short of seeing hoards of them swarming our northern and southern borders and capturing San Antonio or Hoboken. (After they conquer Canada that is) What I do see is continued radicalization of young American Muslims who are eager to pull off another Boston Marathon bombing.. or worse yet another 911. This is a much different war than WWII.. Our enemy is already here.. and can only be stopped by surveillance and covert operations.
 
Quicksilver is right. Nobody outside the ME is under threat of invasion.
There are economic threats though. Also there are economic opportunities.
These are two of the stronger motives for engaging in war.
 
Shalimar said:
But QS, I don't want Canada to be conquered first. Lol.
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Well to get to us they are either going to have to conquer Canada or Mexico... OR... the could attack on the coast.. you know... with their massive Navy.. lol!!

We need Paul Revere... One if by land... two if by sea!!
 

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