Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
The blind to be allowed gun permits?
- Thread starter GDAD
- Start date
Jillaroo
Demented
- Location
- Mid North Coast NSW Australia
HFL Wrote.
The actual issue is that this is simply another ploy to take away the rights of legal, law-abiding citizens, and that is the part that has to be addressed. Once they start one disability as a reason not to have the right to own a gun, then they will soon be adding more reasons, until most of the older citizens, and many of our war veterans, will be disqualified from their rights.
It has to be stopped now, before that car starts rolling down the hill.
HFL I feel you need to understand that the authorities are not taking away the rights of the blind having a gun, in my opinion it is all about ensuring that whoever approaches the blind person be it a friend or it may be an innocent bystander will be safe if the blind person shoots, especially if the blind person is scared and justs shoots at any sound they hear.
I wear glasses but if i was blind there is no way i would want the Government to say it is my right even though you can't see a damn thing, i would tell them to take that right from me and any other blind person as it is just too dangerous to allow a blind person to be armed with a gun, even if they are wanting to protect themselves, get someone to walk with them if they are so worried so they feel more secure
The actual issue is that this is simply another ploy to take away the rights of legal, law-abiding citizens, and that is the part that has to be addressed. Once they start one disability as a reason not to have the right to own a gun, then they will soon be adding more reasons, until most of the older citizens, and many of our war veterans, will be disqualified from their rights.
It has to be stopped now, before that car starts rolling down the hill.
HFL I feel you need to understand that the authorities are not taking away the rights of the blind having a gun, in my opinion it is all about ensuring that whoever approaches the blind person be it a friend or it may be an innocent bystander will be safe if the blind person shoots, especially if the blind person is scared and justs shoots at any sound they hear.
I wear glasses but if i was blind there is no way i would want the Government to say it is my right even though you can't see a damn thing, i would tell them to take that right from me and any other blind person as it is just too dangerous to allow a blind person to be armed with a gun, even if they are wanting to protect themselves, get someone to walk with them if they are so worried so they feel more secure
Phil, You are right. The problem as I see it is sometimes I come across as argueing when I want to discuss. I apoligize for what seems to be an attack.
As for the rest of your statement I agree.
I believe the rights of the individual trumps being told you don't need this or you can't have that have that.
I realize my rights stop where yours begin
SifuPhil
R.I.P. With Us In Spirit Only
- Location
- Pennsylvania, USA
Aw, don't worry about it - I think we're both heading to the same place with this anyway.
I'm in front of the crowd when it comes to preserving whatever rights we have left, and I staunchly believe in citizens being armed to the gills. What gives me pause is the ability of those citizens to responsibly handle those weapons.
As the old saying goes - "The more I see of people, the more I like my dog". I see and read and hear and watch videos of people doing stupendously stupid things every day, and I don't know whether to think that it's the majority or just a twit-filled minority brought into the limelight by our precious media.
But even ONE twit can ruin your day.
I rant on a regular basis about too much government control - heck, I own 5 websites dealing just with the legalization of marijuana and I sold 2 last year that were focused on urban preparedness / survival tactics, so you KNOW I'm a full-blown, tin-foil-hat-wearing Patriot (in the OLD sense of the word, not the NEW one).
So yeah, I'd say the same thing about guns that I say about driver's licenses - both deal with deadly weapons and both require a minimum amount of mental and physical ability to use them properly. The death tolls from both categories show that the vetting process is woefully inadequate, and I'm afraid I have to admit that I don't have any concrete solutions other than to increase the background checks / written and practical exams / psych evaluations (although THAT opens a huge can of worms, I know).
I'm old-school enough that I think children should BE children until they're adults, adults should spend most of their time ACTING like adults and that it IS possible to achieve peace through superior firepower.
Jillaroo, If I maybutt in. It is not up to the government to give us rights. We already have them. It is up to them to ensure those rights are not taken away from us. Given the situation you describe I would stop exercising my right to drive or whatever but I don't intend to let them be taken away from me.
With rights comes responsibility, and what you describe is a responsible action.
I want you and others to know I appreciate the way you guys have responded to this disscussion in a non hateful way and I hope I have done the same, it certainley was my intention to be civil. I gave up on trying to appear intelligent a log time ago so I don't expect to come across that way.
I think I have found a neat place to hang out and don't want to wear out my welcome so good night all .
With rights comes responsibility, and what you describe is a responsible action.
I want you and others to know I appreciate the way you guys have responded to this disscussion in a non hateful way and I hope I have done the same, it certainley was my intention to be civil. I gave up on trying to appear intelligent a log time ago so I don't expect to come across that way.
I think I have found a neat place to hang out and don't want to wear out my welcome so good night all .
Diwundrin
Well-known Member
- Location
- Nth Coast NSW Australia
Rats! I got interrupted mid ramble and the discussion has passed way by and has probably been rendered redundant, but .....
Seriously, doesn't the fact that PCness has eroded our reason to the extent that we are discussing blind people's rights to own guns and drive cars as a normal topic of conversation make us wonder where horse sense went?
There are rights. And then there are limitations. Abrogating the rights to a reasonable degree of comfort and safety of the majority to accommodate the often unnecessary rights of the very few merely to enable their avoidance of accepting their limitations is not PCness, it's lunacy.
The paranoia that Government is manipulating us may be very well founded, but remember that PCness, in the guise of 'rights' is also a very insidious manipulation of our minds. A far more dangerous one than brute force.
It's eating away at our basic common sense and turning us from the benefactors into the servants of those who can't compete.
What was a kindness to those less well off has now become a guilt trip for not being 'disabled' ourselves.
What was seen as offering a fair and equal opportunity is now seen a right for the less qualified to be preferred.
People who were obviously nuts were locked up where they couldn't hurt themselves or others, not given a bottle of pills and turned loose to exercise their rights to do just that.
This is not just about guns, that's a symptom, not a cause.
Why do kids seem so dumb these days? They know all about climate change and whale hugging and wax philosophical about gay marriage the rights of everyone but their parents, but can't scratch their backsides without an instruction manual, find China on a map, or know which end of a nail to hammer into a rickety fence.
We had a young political candidate, short lived in the appointment, who stated some garble about refugees from the "Country of Islam". DOH! and you thought Sarah Palin missed school?! What the hell was our silly wench being taught?
... anyway, enougha dat. The big bad 'They' are eroding our rights, no doubt about it, eroding the right to think logically for ourselves!
The right to make our own decisions as to the balance between rights and responsibilities. The right to sometimes say NO.
I have to ask myself how considerate of my rights is a blind man who demands to be allowed to threaten me with a gun? What does he consider his responsibility to the safety of others to be??
Has he taken a moment to even think about what responsibilities his limitations entail, or just reacted to that good old PC ' my rights' knee jerk?
Just wonderin'.
Seriously, doesn't the fact that PCness has eroded our reason to the extent that we are discussing blind people's rights to own guns and drive cars as a normal topic of conversation make us wonder where horse sense went?
There are rights. And then there are limitations. Abrogating the rights to a reasonable degree of comfort and safety of the majority to accommodate the often unnecessary rights of the very few merely to enable their avoidance of accepting their limitations is not PCness, it's lunacy.
The paranoia that Government is manipulating us may be very well founded, but remember that PCness, in the guise of 'rights' is also a very insidious manipulation of our minds. A far more dangerous one than brute force.
It's eating away at our basic common sense and turning us from the benefactors into the servants of those who can't compete.
What was a kindness to those less well off has now become a guilt trip for not being 'disabled' ourselves.
What was seen as offering a fair and equal opportunity is now seen a right for the less qualified to be preferred.
People who were obviously nuts were locked up where they couldn't hurt themselves or others, not given a bottle of pills and turned loose to exercise their rights to do just that.
This is not just about guns, that's a symptom, not a cause.
Why do kids seem so dumb these days? They know all about climate change and whale hugging and wax philosophical about gay marriage the rights of everyone but their parents, but can't scratch their backsides without an instruction manual, find China on a map, or know which end of a nail to hammer into a rickety fence.
We had a young political candidate, short lived in the appointment, who stated some garble about refugees from the "Country of Islam". DOH! and you thought Sarah Palin missed school?! What the hell was our silly wench being taught?
... anyway, enougha dat. The big bad 'They' are eroding our rights, no doubt about it, eroding the right to think logically for ourselves!
The right to make our own decisions as to the balance between rights and responsibilities. The right to sometimes say NO.
I have to ask myself how considerate of my rights is a blind man who demands to be allowed to threaten me with a gun? What does he consider his responsibility to the safety of others to be??
Has he taken a moment to even think about what responsibilities his limitations entail, or just reacted to that good old PC ' my rights' knee jerk?
Just wonderin'.
Happyflowerlady
Vagabond Flowerchild
- Location
- Northern Alabama
"I have to ask myself how considerate of my rights is a blind man who demands to be allowed to threaten me with a gun? What does he consider his responsibility to the safety of others to be?? Has he taken a moment to even think about what responsibilities his limitations entail, or just reacted to that good old PC ' my rights' knee jerk?"
Di , I can totally see where you are coming from with this perspective , and believe me, neither myself, or anyone else living here in America wants to be threatened by someone with a gun, blind or otherwise !
I think the difference in how we look at this issue pretty much comes down to two things:
The first one is that you, and the other Aussies, live in a country where gun ownership is forbidden, and looked down on; so the whole perception of someone having a gun is different to start with.
Whereas, here in America, people have owned, and often carried guns right from the start of this country, and the perception for many years was that a man wasn't dressed until he had strapped on his gun.
When I was in school, all of the country boys wore knives in their belt. They used them for farm chores. No one even worried about it, because it was never an issue.
The second thing is the picture of Americans that goes out to other countries. Even though there are thousands of responsible gun owners here, the ones that make international news are the sickos, and the hardened criminals. Movies and TV shows a very different view than what is actually going on here in America.
We are not all "gun-totin' cowboys" any more than all of you Aussies have kangaroos hopping around in your yards and all over your cities.
We don't want to go out and threaten people with our guns. We just want to have them in our closets in case of emergency. Our very Constitution gives us the right to own and bear arms, and we don't like our rights threatened, but that does not mean that we don't have sense enough to know when we are not healthy enough to drive, or shoot a gun. No one is going down the street with a gun, much less blind people. Just the criminals, and we put them in prison when we catch them.
Di , I can totally see where you are coming from with this perspective , and believe me, neither myself, or anyone else living here in America wants to be threatened by someone with a gun, blind or otherwise !
I think the difference in how we look at this issue pretty much comes down to two things:
The first one is that you, and the other Aussies, live in a country where gun ownership is forbidden, and looked down on; so the whole perception of someone having a gun is different to start with.
Whereas, here in America, people have owned, and often carried guns right from the start of this country, and the perception for many years was that a man wasn't dressed until he had strapped on his gun.
When I was in school, all of the country boys wore knives in their belt. They used them for farm chores. No one even worried about it, because it was never an issue.
The second thing is the picture of Americans that goes out to other countries. Even though there are thousands of responsible gun owners here, the ones that make international news are the sickos, and the hardened criminals. Movies and TV shows a very different view than what is actually going on here in America.
We are not all "gun-totin' cowboys" any more than all of you Aussies have kangaroos hopping around in your yards and all over your cities.
We don't want to go out and threaten people with our guns. We just want to have them in our closets in case of emergency. Our very Constitution gives us the right to own and bear arms, and we don't like our rights threatened, but that does not mean that we don't have sense enough to know when we are not healthy enough to drive, or shoot a gun. No one is going down the street with a gun, much less blind people. Just the criminals, and we put them in prison when we catch them.
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
Does it follow then that I, as a foreign visitor to your country am in mortal peril because I am not allowed to carry a gun?
Seriously, it makes sense to me that if you have a problem with criminals then the solution should be to work on that issue, not to arm everyone for self protection.
We have criminals too, you know. Heck, we began as a penal colony.
Seriously, it makes sense to me that if you have a problem with criminals then the solution should be to work on that issue, not to arm everyone for self protection.
We have criminals too, you know. Heck, we began as a penal colony.
Old Hipster
Senior Member
- Location
- Undisclosed
It seems so simple doesn't it. But somethings not working right for us!
I can't think of hardly anybody we know who isn't well armed at home and some even packing heat when they go out. Anybody can get a concealed weapons permit if you aren't a felon. At least in our state.
A lot of us sleep better with a gun in our nightstands. Sad isn't it!
TICA
Senior Member
- Location
- East Coast
It appears to me that different countries and even perhaps different States, have different opinions on gun ownership. We have quite a lot of hunters who of course own rifles but as far as I know, only police or the people who need firearms as a part of their job are allowed to carry a gun in public. There seems to be more and more shootings in the city and we hear on the news where the cops pulled over a car for something and found firearms. Those people are charged immediately. I can only imagine what would happen if they were made legal. Anyone without a record could get one, I suspect there would be a surge of robberies where they would end up in the wrong hands and the cycle would begin.
No thanks. Keep them illegal and let the trained professionals carry the firearms. I have an axe in my bedroom for protection, but have never had to use it and doubt I ever will. lol My crazy dogs would scare the pants off a robber and that works for me.
As for blind people being allowed to carry firearms - crazy!!! Hopefully they'll also have to alert police, fire and ambulance drivers so that if there was an emergency, those first responders are aware and can duck or at the very least, not be worried about getting their head blown off because the person they are trying to help, thinks they are robbers.
I just don't get the logic.
No thanks. Keep them illegal and let the trained professionals carry the firearms. I have an axe in my bedroom for protection, but have never had to use it and doubt I ever will. lol My crazy dogs would scare the pants off a robber and that works for me.
As for blind people being allowed to carry firearms - crazy!!! Hopefully they'll also have to alert police, fire and ambulance drivers so that if there was an emergency, those first responders are aware and can duck or at the very least, not be worried about getting their head blown off because the person they are trying to help, thinks they are robbers.
I just don't get the logic.
That Guy
Homegrown Unknown
- Location
- Monterey Bay
Support Your Right To Arm Bears!
An axe Tica; really?? I would be afraid someone stronger could get that away from me, since you couldn't use it until they were fairly close to you. There is a pepper spray you can buy that law enforcement uses; it's a gel, and not only stings immediately, but can't be rubbed off very easily, so would disable someone longer than a regular spray.
Another thing I've read about is the wasp spray you can get for spraying wasp nests. It sprays for a distance so you don't have to get close to the nest, and again, would be effective if you aim for the eyes.
I heard that it could potentially blind someone, but if that happens, well, I guess they shouldn't have broken in or attacked in the first place.
GDAD
Member
- Location
- Sydney....Australia
For being blind OR for erratic driving? :rofl:
GDAD
Member
- Location
- Sydney....Australia
After starting this, I was quite amazed at the diverse response of all. Here In Australia we can't understand the American gun laws.
We are not permitted to carry firearms.
In Sydney, Australia where I live there is a spate of isolated drive by shootings.
The police have been raiding Bikie Gangs (hells Angels Commocharos etc).They seem to be having a TIT for TAT
shootings at each others residence. There have been a few more businesses robbed in armed holdups lately.
Generally it is a very peaceful City. So if your thinking of a holiday...Come & Enjoy yourselves.....Cheers!
We are not permitted to carry firearms.
In Sydney, Australia where I live there is a spate of isolated drive by shootings.
The police have been raiding Bikie Gangs (hells Angels Commocharos etc).They seem to be having a TIT for TAT
shootings at each others residence. There have been a few more businesses robbed in armed holdups lately.
Generally it is a very peaceful City. So if your thinking of a holiday...Come & Enjoy yourselves.....Cheers!
rkunsaw
Well-known Member
- Location
- Clarksville, Arkansas,USA
So law abiding citizens aren't allowed to have guns but biker gangs can?
SifuPhil
R.I.P. With Us In Spirit Only
- Location
- Pennsylvania, USA
I agree that an axe is a somewhat questionable choice of self-defense weapon, especially for indoors. By the time you do your wind-up with it the bad guy can be on top of you, and its limiting factor is that it is only as powerful and quick as the person wielding it, whereas a firearm is just point-and-shoot.
Pepper spray indoors is also problematic - it's easy for it to "bounce" back onto the defender. Although the gel is slightly better in that regard it's still something that you need to be focused enough and accurate enough to deliver into your attacker's face.
A Mossberg 12-ga. with a 20" barrel is perhaps one of the best indoor fire-and-forget weapons you can own. No aiming down the barrel - just point in the proper direction and pull the trigger.
I agree that they shouldn't have attacked in the first place, but the odds are good that their lawyer is going to convince the court that you were carrying a lethal weapon, whereas with pepper spray it is acknowledged as a non-lethal one.
A big part of self-defense is knowing not only how to hurt the bad guy but also how to protect yourself, physically and legally. It's a fine line, and unfortunately wasp spray crosses over it.
Happyflowerlady
Vagabond Flowerchild
- Location
- Northern Alabama
Many, many years ago, when my kids were small, I had an experience that had me putting the axe beside my bed, too.
At about 2 in the morning, the phone rang, and the caller told me he was at the scene of a serious accident, and the injured person gave him my number to call, and that they were taking him to the hospital. The vehicle description seemed to match for either my husband, or my oldest son, but the caller was pretty vague with more details, just that I needed to get to the hospital.
I took my son along with me, but Robin was fast asleep in my bed, so I left her asleep, and Mike and I rushed to the hospital, only to find no one had been brought in from a car accident. The police told me that burglars often used this tactic to get people out of the house while they burglarized the place.
Greatly alarmed by then, we rushed back home, even faster than we had gone getting to the hospital !
The house looked fine, Robin was still fast asleep, but I wasn't about to go downstairs and investigate the cellar; so I just blocked it shut with a solid chair, and took the axe to bed with me.
It wasn't much, admittedly, but it was about the only thing I had at that point that might work if someone broke into the house.
It turned out that it was one of the druggies that my husband was involved with (they didn't much like me ! ), and this was their idea of a funny joke, but I didn't find that out for a few days until my husband came home again, and they told him when he was over there buying his drugs, what fun they had scaring me.
WhileI was relieved to learn that it was not a real threat, I was still pretty mad about it for a really long time !
At about 2 in the morning, the phone rang, and the caller told me he was at the scene of a serious accident, and the injured person gave him my number to call, and that they were taking him to the hospital. The vehicle description seemed to match for either my husband, or my oldest son, but the caller was pretty vague with more details, just that I needed to get to the hospital.
I took my son along with me, but Robin was fast asleep in my bed, so I left her asleep, and Mike and I rushed to the hospital, only to find no one had been brought in from a car accident. The police told me that burglars often used this tactic to get people out of the house while they burglarized the place.
Greatly alarmed by then, we rushed back home, even faster than we had gone getting to the hospital !
The house looked fine, Robin was still fast asleep, but I wasn't about to go downstairs and investigate the cellar; so I just blocked it shut with a solid chair, and took the axe to bed with me.
It wasn't much, admittedly, but it was about the only thing I had at that point that might work if someone broke into the house.
It turned out that it was one of the druggies that my husband was involved with (they didn't much like me ! ), and this was their idea of a funny joke, but I didn't find that out for a few days until my husband came home again, and they told him when he was over there buying his drugs, what fun they had scaring me.
WhileI was relieved to learn that it was not a real threat, I was still pretty mad about it for a really long time !
SifuPhil
R.I.P. With Us In Spirit Only
- Location
- Pennsylvania, USA
Now THAT'S when you need the axe - when you go to THEIR house afterwards and chop up their front door.
At that point I've always made it a custom - a sort of ritual good-luck charm - to stick my face into the hole and say:
"Heeeeeeeeeerrrrrrreeeee's Johnny!"
layful:
Happyflowerlady
Vagabond Flowerchild
- Location
- Northern Alabama
Now THAT'S when you need the axe - when you go to THEIR house afterwards and chop up their front door.
At that point I've always made it a custom - a sort of ritual good-luck charm - to stick my face into the hole and say:
"Heeeeeeeeeerrrrrrreeeee's Johnny!"
AMEN to that one Sifu !
Where were YOU when I needed you ?
GDAD
Member
- Location
- Sydney....Australia
No one except Police can legally carry a firearm in Australia.
In America you have to have a permit to legally own a gun, still there are lots of people who illegally carry &
who illegally own firearms!
You have one group of people who can carry a firearm,the police.
The rest of the population can not.
Does that worry you.
Jillaroo
Demented
- Location
- Mid North Coast NSW Australia
It certainly doesn't worry me as they are the Law enforcement , i don't feel the need to be armed
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
I'm happy to see our police armed but I do keep my distance from them because the very sight of the gun disturbs me a little bit.
It reminds me that these officers are trained to face very difficult situations and I don't want to distract them unnecessarily.
It reminds me that these officers are trained to face very difficult situations and I don't want to distract them unnecessarily.