Because he wasn't deliberately trying to murder Floyd. Was he an careless, arrogant A-hole? Yep. Did he say to himself as he had his knee on Floyd's neck "I'm going to murder this guy right in front of the world"? Nope.
The Derek Chauvin Trial
- Thread starter Chet
- Start date
Murrmurr
SF VIP
- Location
- Sacramento, California
Correct. Not premeditated, not intended. Manslaughter for sure, but I think the other charge could have been negligent homicide.
hollydolly
SF VIP
- Location
- London England
Ok, are we going to open a Book on what his sentence will be ?...I think he'll get 15 years, which will see him serve half that with good behaviour..
Murrmurr
SF VIP
- Location
- Sacramento, California
I have no idea what the sentences are for the 3 convictions, nor whether the judge can ask each sentence be served consecutively or concurrently. So no guesses here.
hollydolly
SF VIP
- Location
- London England
I think it was said somewhere that he would only be sentenced on the one charge of Second Degree Murder...
Murrmurr
SF VIP
- Location
- Sacramento, California
So he could be given a presumptive sentence of 12 and a half years on that count, but the judge could site a bunch of circumstances around the situation that could add or detract from the "severity of the crime". Also, some convictions aren't eligible for an early release such as Good Behavior. I don't know if 2nd Degree Murder is or not. Probably is.
Judges don't ask. Who are they going to ask? It's their courtroom.
Murrmurr
SF VIP
- Location
- Sacramento, California
Ok, order...he can order each sentence be served consecutively, or whatever.
Jeez m'neez, Peps.
StarSong
Awkward is my Superpower
- Location
- Los Angeles Suburbs
The thing is, Chauvin wasn't some chump off the street with little knowledge and zero responsibility for his mistakes. He was a police officer who was trained to know what actions could possibly kill someone, making his actions even more egregious, which was part of the testimony of other police chiefs and officers.
In addition, bystanders in the crowd were begged Chauvin to get up, yelling that Floyd had stopped moving and wasn't breathing - all of which he ignored.
My guess: his sentence be longer than 20 years. Since the Feds are planning to get their own pound of flesh, Chauvin could wind up in the pokey for the rest of his life, which is what he deserves, IMHO.
I can't see him walking free in ten years or less. If he does, street justice will almost certainly rear its ugly head.
oldiebutgoody
Senior Member
At trial it was shown that a female emergency aid medical worker was screaming at him to stop as he was killing Floyd with his actions. Chauvin and the other cops threatened her with arrest and ordered her to shut up. This testimony was shown live on local tv here in the Twin Cities and broadcasted live online.
Therefore, this could not be manslaughter. It was at the very least murder².
I read that under MN law, you are correct.
Yes, preventing medical help for a handcuffed suspect who wasn't moving is what tells me it was intentional.
And if that's all he serves, I hope it does. Street justice is better than no justice.
Here is a MN Appeals court case, citing MN statute 609.035 explaining such.
https://mn.gov/law-library-stat/archive/ctappub/2019/OPa181055-061019.pdf
hollydolly
SF VIP
- Location
- London England
I knew I'd read it somewhere , thanks for that
I looked up the definition of manslaughter, and it is a confusng mess of overlapping definitions. Some manslaughter is "involuntary," and it's pretty clear that the person was killed almost by accident, in the course of some other wrongdoing. (Driving drunk and hitting a pedestrian, for example.)
Murder implies that the person was killed intentionally.
But "voluntary manslaughter" is where it gets complicated. If someone is being attacked by another person, or is a witness to another person being harmed or held hostage, the only way to save them could be to kill the attacker. The attacker dies, it was done deliberately, but with a good reason, and was necessary in the circumstances.
From all these definitions, it seems pretty clear to me that Chauvin committed murder.
Murder implies that the person was killed intentionally.
But "voluntary manslaughter" is where it gets complicated. If someone is being attacked by another person, or is a witness to another person being harmed or held hostage, the only way to save them could be to kill the attacker. The attacker dies, it was done deliberately, but with a good reason, and was necessary in the circumstances.
From all these definitions, it seems pretty clear to me that Chauvin committed murder.
Second degree murder in Minnesota:
Second-degree murder: According to the Minnesota statute, whoever causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting” is guilty of murder in the second degree.
I just don't understand how the jury thought Chauvin was "committing a felony offense" while causing the death of Floyd. This could get him 40 years by itself and the prosecution is asking the judge to tack on more because a child was present. As if the police have to stop what they're doing if any children are around. Either way he'll die in prison just like the Pike county murderer who shot four people in the head while they were sleeping. Something doesn't seem right about this to me.
Second-degree murder: According to the Minnesota statute, whoever causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting” is guilty of murder in the second degree.
I just don't understand how the jury thought Chauvin was "committing a felony offense" while causing the death of Floyd. This could get him 40 years by itself and the prosecution is asking the judge to tack on more because a child was present. As if the police have to stop what they're doing if any children are around. Either way he'll die in prison just like the Pike county murderer who shot four people in the head while they were sleeping. Something doesn't seem right about this to me.
StarSong
Awkward is my Superpower
- Location
- Los Angeles Suburbs
My understanding is that the prosecution doesn't want to see him only get 15 years (out in 7.5), the typical sentence for 2nd degree murder.
Voluntary Manslaughter under MN law is known as "Heat of Passion" homicide, you basically intended to kill (emphasis added) but you were so outraged and out of control of your emotions, it was uncontrollable, you transform from David Banner to the Incredible Hulk.
hollydolly
SF VIP
- Location
- London England
This is what I read and led to understand of MN Law...
Your laws in the USA are a total minefield..it's odd to anyone not living in the USA.. why the law isn't the same for the whole country...
Some statutes are annotated online, this one was not, but this is it.
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.20
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.20
hollydolly
SF VIP
- Location
- London England
This is precisely the reason that I don't think Chauvin will get more than 15 years....
In some legal aspects it is, such as Federal law, and many states have adopted laws passed by the Commissioners on Uniform State laws, like the Uniform Commercial Code, adopted in full or part.
Butterfly
SF VIP
- Location
- Albuquerque, New Mexico USA
There is nothing like that here, either. The reviewing authority for anything about the trial would be our Court of Appeals, who could overturn the verdict and remand to the trial court for a new trial. I'd add that it is VERY rare for our Court of Appeals to overturn a jury verdict in a criminal case.
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