The Gender Debate...

Furryanimal said:
It’s become an “article of trans faith” that there are “exactly 73 genders”, says Mary Wakefield in The Spectator. The fastest-growing subset is said to be “xenogender” – people who feel “more akin to animals or plants or foods than humans”.

There’s a girl on TikTok who explains very seriously that her gender is “bird” – specifically a cardinal, with “ey/em” pronouns. There’s a horse child who is taken out by school staff for gallops; “a boy dinosaur who is fed on strips of meat”. I’ve also found several people who “identify as cake”.

There is some disagreement in the community about how it feels to be cake, but in general I gather it’s a sort of “sweet, fluffy feeling; a lightness”. “No one who’s cake-gender can have tasted a cake I’ve baked.”
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Perhaps some people have broadened the concept of gender beyond it's original meaning...Googling "gender" yields the following definition:
"gen·der
/ˈjendər/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: gender; plural noun: genders

1.
the male sex or the female sex, especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones, or one of a range of other identities that do not correspond to established ideas of male and female.
"the singer has opted to keep the names and genders of her twins private"
members of a particular gender considered as a group.
"social interaction between the genders"
the fact or condition of belonging to or identifying as having a particular gender.
"video ads will target users based only on age and gender"
2.
Grammar
(in languages such as Latin, Greek, Russian, and German) each of the classes (typically masculine, feminine, common, neuter) of nouns and pronouns distinguished by the different inflections that they have and require in words syntactically associated with them. Grammatical gender is only very loosely associated with distinctions of sex.
the property (in nouns and related words) of belonging to a gender."

Notice in Bold above..."or one of a range of other identities that do not correspond to established ideas of male and female", that seems to be where some have taken liberties with the term gender, which baffles those of us who consider gender to be only related to one's sexual attributes.
 

Magna-Carta said:
Agree, keep things simple & traditional:

Always go with the cardboard cut-out option as opposed to a modern communication device. Especially when taking into consideration any wedding photo options.

The first dance at the wedding reception might be a bit challenging.

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Isn’t that those people who had dozens of plastic surgery operations just to look like Ken & Barbie! 😂🤪Seeing this is humbling. Lol
 
PeppermintPatty said:
Isn’t that those people who had dozens of plastic surgery operations just to look like Ken & Barbie! 😂🤪Seeing this is humbling. Lol
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They are photos of Oli London (post #25). (Oliver James Squire), who married a cardboard cut-out of his Korean pop idol. It was reported that he used to worship his cardboard cut-out of Jimin and even prayed to it. He allegedly spent £230,000 on plastic surgery to look like a Korean.

He identifies as South Korean – a transracial. He used to identify himself as non-binary, & as a they/them. He later identified himself as a genderfluid trans woman. Last year he said he was detransitioning, as he wanted to "go back to being [his] original self—a biological man", and then started identifying as a he/him. Apparently, this was after he announced plans for ***** reduction surgeries, stating that "in Korea, [the average] ***** is like 3.5 inches.

Its all very sad.
 

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I’ve said this before in a different thread. I hope people here don’t mind if I repeat myself – I think it’s important! The concept of "self-identification" seems wrong to me in itself, and should be done with the help of a medical professional or group of medical professionals, or is self-identification the correct way? Should it be acceptable?:

People are now identifying themselves as all kinds of things. 73 genders?

I disagree with a lot of what is said against self identity. I think all people should be able to identify themselves in whichever way they want, with acceptance & without ridicule.

As someone from the UK, I identify myself as a kitchen appliance. In my mid to late teens I used to identify myself as a toaster, but now that I’ve matured somewhat and become a more complicated individual, I’ve become more daring. I now identify myself as a Hotpoint Washer Dryer. Specifically one from the Ultama S-Line range. In this day & age you have to be specific about these things.

As an appliance, I would like to make it known that I’ve become trans-voltage, or perhaps voltage-fluid? Moving from 240v to 110v and back again at will. I wouldn’t say, “voltage-neutral”, because my home electrical system doesn’t work that way! And besides, I always like to think in a positive way.

I don’t identify myself with pronouns anymore, as that seems to be 'so last decade'. I have moved on to adjectives, and I encourage everyone to do the same. I identify myself as “handsome”, and if pressed even sexy. Sometimes you just have to put these things out there! "Gorgeous" might be taking it a bit too far though -- you have to keep these things realistic! :)

I’ve also started to identify myself as being 10 years younger than I actually am. You have to start taking advantage of the whims of modern society. These days you will be surprised with what you can get away with. I used to be 6ft 1in tall, but now I've become older I seem to be a fraction under 6ft. I supose it happens to us all eventually. However, in official documentation I've started to 'identify' myself as being 6ft 4in, so thats OK!
 
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How come when someone identifies as a 'they or them'...which doesn't even make sense, everyone is tickety-boo with it.

But as soon as someone identifies as an Indigenous person, everyone runs naked into the streets yelling at the top of their lungs...and drinking their own pee.
 
'And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.'

That was a long time ago

.....and here we are
 
Gary O' said:
'And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.'

That was a long time ago

.....and here we are
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Thanks Gary O for the truth.

And His word never changes. And neither does He.
 
no debate, you can think what you want and I can think what I want....doesn't make either true, just what we think. the truth will always we the truth
 
Have you ever not felt comfortable in your own skin. Have you never been in a situation where you wondered how you got there, this is not who you are, what are you doing? Etc.

Look, I identify as female, and my pronouns are she/her. I also am biologically female.

That said, I HAVE been in situations where I wondered who the hell I was, where I didn’t recognize myself, where I felt so completely alien to myself that it almost drove me mad. I lost myself for a long time. Yes, it was interwoven into my marital abuse, the extreme control my ex exerted, how he kept trying to make me over into who he wanted me to be, and I was so dominated and afraid that I felt I had to.

it’s from that perspective that I can understand and relate to this gender issue, that very real and gut wrenching problems that some are faced with as to their gender identity. I DO believe it has been taken to outrageous proportions, which is such a shame because it’s made it so much more difficult for those folks who are genuinely struggling with their identity, who are authentic in their desire to just be seen on the outside as who they know they are on the inside.

People very close to me are struggling and it breaks my heart. I’m up close and personal with this issue, helping my loved ones who are trying so hard to come to terms with what they’re dealing with, wondering why them, why can’t they just be “normal.” It’s gut wrenching so forgive me if I might get heated as this discussion evolves, on this forum, in life, on other platforms.

It’s not a fun ride. It’s a wretched, awful struggle. Unlike my struggle, which was situational and once I got away from my abuser I could reclaim my identity after some therapy to rediscover who I was, that person who had been buried for so many years.

Folks with authentic gender identity issues have no easy fix. The path before them is bewildering, fraught with danger, threat, lack of understanding, ridicule, disbelief. Thank god my loved ones are surrounded by understanding and non judgmental family. It’s their soft place to fall. Their ONLY place other than their therapy, as they work to build a circle of non family support, an uphill battle. But they keep trying because the alternatives are to hide, lie, engage in subterfuge and disinformation in order to not be judged and condemned.

I wouldn’t want to live that way. Would you?
 
I think the use of "they" or "them" when talking about a single person has made the language nearly impossible to understand. It's too bad that using "it" would be so insulting, as in a way, that would make more sense. Whenever I hear "they," I wonder, "Who's the other person?"
 
Ronni said:
Have you ever not felt comfortable in your own skin. Have you never been in a situation where you wondered how you got there, this is not who you are, what are you doing? Etc.

Look, I identify as female, and my pronouns are she/her. I also am biologically female.

That said, I HAVE been in situations where I wondered who the hell I was, where I didn’t recognize myself, where I felt so completely alien to myself that it almost drove me mad. I lost myself for a long time. Yes, it was interwoven into my marital abuse, the extreme control my ex exerted, how he kept trying to make me over into who he wanted me to be, and I was so dominated and afraid that I felt I had to.

it’s from that perspective that I can understand and relate to this gender issue, that very real and gut wrenching problems that some are faced with as to their gender identity. I DO believe it has been taken to outrageous proportions, which is such a shame because it’s made it so much more difficult for those folks who are genuinely struggling with their identity, who are authentic in their desire to just be seen on the outside as who they know they are on the inside.

People very close to me are struggling and it breaks my heart. I’m up close and personal with this issue, helping my loved ones who are trying so hard to come to terms with what they’re dealing with, wondering why them, why can’t they just be “normal.” It’s gut wrenching so forgive me if I might get heated as this discussion evolves, on this forum, in life, on other platforms.

It’s not a fun ride. It’s a wretched, awful struggle. Unlike my struggle, which was situational and once I got away from my abuser I could reclaim my identity after some therapy to rediscover who I was, that person who had been buried for so many years.

Folks with authentic gender identity issues have no easy fix. The path before them is bewildering, fraught with danger, threat, lack of understanding, ridicule, disbelief. Thank god my loved ones are surrounded by understanding and non judgmental family. It’s their soft place to fall. Their ONLY place other than their therapy, as they work to build a circle of non family support, an uphill battle. But they keep trying because the alternatives are to hide, lie, engage in subterfuge and disinformation in order to not be judged and condemned.

I wouldn’t want to live that way. Would you?
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QFT.
 
Ronni said:
Have you ever not felt comfortable in your own skin. Have you never been in a situation where you wondered how you got there, this is not who you are, what are you doing? Etc.

Look, I identify as female, and my pronouns are she/her. I also am biologically female.

That said, I HAVE been in situations where I wondered who the hell I was, where I didn’t recognize myself, where I felt so completely alien to myself that it almost drove me mad. I lost myself for a long time. Yes, it was interwoven into my marital abuse, the extreme control my ex exerted, how he kept trying to make me over into who he wanted me to be, and I was so dominated and afraid that I felt I had to.

it’s from that perspective that I can understand and relate to this gender issue, that very real and gut wrenching problems that some are faced with as to their gender identity. I DO believe it has been taken to outrageous proportions, which is such a shame because it’s made it so much more difficult for those folks who are genuinely struggling with their identity, who are authentic in their desire to just be seen on the outside as who they know they are on the inside.

People very close to me are struggling and it breaks my heart. I’m up close and personal with this issue, helping my loved ones who are trying so hard to come to terms with what they’re dealing with, wondering why them, why can’t they just be “normal.” It’s gut wrenching so forgive me if I might get heated as this discussion evolves, on this forum, in life, on other platforms.

It’s not a fun ride. It’s a wretched, awful struggle. Unlike my struggle, which was situational and once I got away from my abuser I could reclaim my identity after some therapy to rediscover who I was, that person who had been buried for so many years.

Folks with authentic gender identity issues have no easy fix. The path before them is bewildering, fraught with danger, threat, lack of understanding, ridicule, disbelief. Thank god my loved ones are surrounded by understanding and non judgmental family. It’s their soft place to fall. Their ONLY place other than their therapy, as they work to build a circle of non family support, an uphill battle. But they keep trying because the alternatives are to hide, lie, engage in subterfuge and disinformation in order to not be judged and condemned.

I wouldn’t want to live that way. Would you?
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Well said!
 
I understand Male, Female and Trans (either to Male or Female), but I don't understand the other nomenclature and pronouns. I only recently learned that Cisgendered men are straight. I recently thought I might like to council gay kids about how to get through life successfully, since I'm gay and went through the struggles, but then I realized I don't even speak their language anymore.
 

seadoug said:
I understand Male, Female and Trans (either to Male or Female), but I don't understand the other nomenclature and pronouns. I only recently learned that Cisgendered men are straight. I recently thought I might like to council gay kids about how to get through life successfully, since I'm gay and went through the struggles, but then I realized I don't even speak their language anymore.
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I think that you still speak the language of many young gays, not all struggles are the same. Don’t sell yourself short. ❤️
 
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Shalimar said:
I think that you still speak the language of many young gays, not all struggles are the same. Don’t sell yourself short. ❤️
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Thank you for your vote of confidence. My partner works for a non-profit organization that assists domestic abuse victims. They have three shelters. One of them is a men's shelter primarily for gay men, so he has connections to gay organizations. I will ask him to pursue this. I would love to assist young, gay men in feeling good about themselves and show them how they can achieve success in a world that sometimes undermines them.
 
seadoug said:
Thank you for your vote of confidence. My partner works for a non-profit organization that assists domestic abuse victims. They have three shelters. One of them is a men's shelter primarily for gay men, so he has connections to gay organizations. I will ask him to pursue this. I would love to assist young, gay men in feeling good about themselves and show them how they can achieve success in a world that sometimes undermines them.
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You are welcome. Now I am brought to tears, oh the young clients I have had who would have given anything to have a mentor such as you!
 
Sunny said:
I think the use of "they" or "them" when talking about a single person has made the language nearly impossible to understand. It's too bad that using "it" would be so insulting, as in a way, that would make more sense. Whenever I hear "they," I wonder, "Who's the other person?"
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I live in a very small community and have come across none of this so far, hopefully never do

I don’t care who or what people are, and couldn’t give a fig about their ‘rights’, I’ve got my rights too and one of those is to continue using the terms and language I was bought up to speak and have spoken all my life !

(Incidentally, if a kid of mine decided to be a horse, he’d get a slap on the rump and a bale of hay for his dinner)...
 
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seadoug said:
I understand Male, Female and Trans (either to Male or Female), but I don't understand the other nomenclature and pronouns. I only recently learned that Cisgendered men are straight. I recently thought I might like to council gay kids about how to get through life successfully, since I'm gay and went through the struggles, but then I realized I don't even speak their language anymore.
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@seadoug I can tell you from very personal experience that if you’re open and authentic about your desire to help, and to learn, you won’t have any trouble communicating. Even as up close and personal as I am to this issue, I constantly mis-speak, use words and terms that don’t fit context, struggle to understand the more nuanced issues. But I’m apologetic and open when I stumble and have made it clear how much I need and want to learn.

As a consequence, I’m able to impart a life’s experience worth of wisdom, a non-judgmental shoulder, and a compassionate soft place to fall, because I’m accepted as a well meaning and passionate advocate in spite of being a neophyte in this area.
 

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