The Inevitable Take Over Of Taiwan By China.

It think there is a sticking point. Taiwan was considered a part of China. Chinese Nationalists fled China to Taiwan, and claimed it for themselves. I I don't think it's naked aggression on the part of China to want its island back . They view Taiwan as a bastion of rebels, stealing their islands. I don't expect war, but humans have never been noted for their aversion to war. The diplomatic trick is to cede Taiwan to the Chinese, but not cede Taiwan to the Chinese.



As I've said all along, China views Taiwan precisely like the USA viewed South Carolina in 1860. There simply is no difference whatsoever.
 

As I've said all along, China views Taiwan precisely like the USA viewed South Carolina in 1860. There simply is no difference whatsoever.
I disagree with the Chinese view -- assuming this is the case. South Carolina was a settled land in a country with a political system of which it was a part. Taiwan and China had a different history. China went through a revolution and became a country with a political system that previously hadn't existed there; the Taiwanese left their areas of settlement to gain refuge. The people in South Carolina never left their homes. They seceded from their country which hadn't changed its political system. The war started not because the slaves in South Carolina were to be freed (which wasn't the case), but rather because of the tension between the North and South over whether or not the new states would be slave or free.
 

Murrmurr

Senior Member
As I've said all along, China views Taiwan precisely like the USA viewed South Carolina in 1860. There simply is no difference whatsoever.
Ok, let's go there. If SoCarolina had successfully suceeded from the Union, and 300 years later (in that case), the US federal gov't forced SoCarolina to reunite with the union, claiming that it's sucession was never recognized, would that be fair to SoCarolina?
 

Ok, let's go there. If SoCarolina had successfully suceeded from the Union, and 300 years later (in that case), the US federal gov't forced SoCarolina to reunite with the union, claiming that it's sucession was never recognized, would that be fair to SoCarolina?



Question is moot since secession was declared illegal.
 
I disagree with the Chinese view -- assuming this is the case. South Carolina was a settled land in a country with a political system of which it was a part. Taiwan and China had a different history. China went through a revolution and became a country with a political system that previously hadn't existed there; the Taiwanese left their areas of settlement to gain refuge. The people in South Carolina never left their homes. They seceded from their country which hadn't changed its political system. The war started not because the slaves in South Carolina were to be freed (which wasn't the case), but rather because of the tension between the North and South over whether or not the new states would be slave or free.




History shows Chiang Kai Shek fled China, annexed Taiwan, and proclaimed it to be the Republic of China. He took what wasn't his. Therefore, he had no right to the land or to claim that his government represented China.
 
China and Taiwan are literally living that scenario. You asked that people on this thread consider the comparison to SoCarolina, saying "There simply is no difference whatsoever"...now you're saying it's a moot point.
I'm done.


Moot because it had no right to secede. It was the Supreme Court that said there is no right to secession. In your question you ask that an assumption be made that secession was recognized. That is a legal impossibility.
 
History shows Chiang Kai Shek fled China, annexed Taiwan, and proclaimed it to be the Republic of China. He took what wasn't his. Therefore, he had no right to the land or to claim that his government represented China.
Whether he had a right or not isn't the discussion. This was a reply to your statement: "As I've said all along, China views Taiwan precisely like the USA viewed South Carolina in 1860. There simply is no difference whatsoever."
 
Whether he had a right or not isn't the discussion. This was a reply to your statement: "As I've said all along, China views Taiwan precisely like the USA viewed South Carolina in 1860. There simply is no difference whatsoever."



I stand by what I said - there simply is no right of secession. When Madrid sent in its troops to stop Catalonian secessionists nobody in Washington DC raised even the slightest objection. This despite the fact that Catalonia existed as a civilization long before Spain did. If the USA is obligated in some way to defend Taiwan from Beijing then it is equally obligated to scream Catalunya Lliure and to defend its secession as well.
 
I stand by what I said - there simply is no right of secession. When Madrid sent in its troops to stop Catalonian secessionists nobody in Washington DC raised even the slightest objection. This despite the fact that Catalonia existed as a civilization long before Spain did. If the USA is obligated in some way to defend Taiwan from Beijing then it is equally obligated to scream Catalunya Lliure and to defend its secession as well.
I think it probably has something to do with treaties.
 

Pepper

Well-known Member
Location
NYC
If Beijing takes Taiwan there is nothing any country can or will do about it. There will be squawking at first then it will die down. It's not in China's best interests for now.
 

mellowyellow

Senior Member
I feel sorry for the Taiwanese people, like the citizens of Hong Kong, they have experienced the freedom of democracy and don’t want to give it up, it would break your heart, but like Hong Kong, Taiwan belongs to China IMO.
 
I'm talking about the U.S. and Taiwan. I don't know for sure (the reason I said "probably"), but I believe there is one concerning Taiwan's defense.



The USA is a member of the UN which only recognizes Beijing as the exclusive government of all of China. The UN does not recognize Taiwan nor should it or anyone else do so. On that basis any "treaty" between Washington DC and Taipei is illegitimate.
 
The USA is a member of the UN which only recognizes Beijing as the exclusive government of all of China. The UN does not recognize Taiwan nor should it or anyone else do so. On that basis any "treaty" between Washington DC and Taipei is illegitimate.
All of the countries of the world do illegitimate things.
 


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