The line between being surveilled constantly for your safety and - privacy?

VaughanJB said:
Modern cars, such as Tesla's, record what your speed you go, the route you took, along with other maintenance information. People still buy them.

Of course there are limits to this stuff, but sometimes our old way of thinking just doesn't work any more. Say, having your credit card information online. I can't be bothered to type it in all the time, so I don't mind. But of course, it opens the door to abuse. Today people are paying by swiping their phones over counter devices. convenience trumps concerns.......
Click to expand...

Great examples. As to Tesla EVs, or EVs in general, I won't buy them for that reason. And other reasons, but that's a start.

CC information -- I do NOT ever willingly allow a vendor to store CC data in their system. For a while, I thought too it was a great convenience -- let them do the heavy lifting. But then I became the victim of identity theft not just once, but multiple times.

It didn't take me long to realize that exposing myself to some other vendor's cybersecurity system (or lack thereof) was a great way to allow thieves (usually from a foreign country) to steal what they could. Thankfully, CC companies -- through legislation -- are on the hook to be accountable for cybertheft, and they were quick to alert me to these issues. But I have learned to reduce my risk by not allowing them to store that data at all. YMMV.
 

HoneyNut said:
I think it is scary that they talk about charging the mother of the excessive speed teenager because she had an app that indicated he had been speeding and she told him not to speed, but somehow they think it is her fault he kept doing it until he killed someone.
To me the use of the app indicates she was doing what she could, and people thinking she should be charged would just discourage other parents from trying to monitor their teenagers.
Click to expand...
Nobody said being a parent is easy. If a parent becomes aware that one of their children is violating the law by operating a motor vehicle and chooses not to act on it, there is some sort of legal accountability that the parent should be held to.

An "app" isn't always the solution to the problem -- as given by this example. Sometimes old-fashioned methods can be more effective. To wit, car keys can be withheld, preventing said youngster from operating the vehicle. Or the motor vehicle can be disabled (disconnected cable from the distributor to the coil is one simple method).

"Telling" a kid not to violate the law doesn't mean the kid is going to comply. If necessary, more firm action needs to take place if the kid can't stop violating the law.

Part of the trust a parent puts in the youth in allowing that kid to operate a motor vehicle is contingent on the kid acting responsibly. Failing that, the vehicle can and should be withheld from the kid.

I'm a great-grandfather two times over now. I completely reject the idea of parents not being held accountable for their progeny's legal and moral failings. When more parents are held to account for these issues, these issues won't occur as often.
 
Eupher said:
Nobody said being a parent is easy. If a parent becomes aware that one of their children is violating the law by operating a motor vehicle and chooses not to act on it, there is some sort of legal accountability that the parent should be held to.

An "app" isn't always the solution to the problem -- as given by this example. Sometimes old-fashioned methods can be more effective. To wit, car keys can be withheld, preventing said youngster from operating the vehicle. Or the motor vehicle can be disabled (disconnected cable from the distributor to the coil is one simple method).

"Telling" a kid not to violate the law doesn't mean the kid is going to comply. If necessary, more firm action needs to take place if the kid can't stop violating the law.

Part of the trust a parent puts in the youth in allowing that kid to operate a motor vehicle is contingent on the kid acting responsibly. Failing that, the vehicle can and should be withheld from the kid.

I'm a great-grandfather two times over now. I completely reject the idea of parents not being held accountable for their progeny's legal and moral failings. When more parents are held to account for these issues, these issues won't occur as often.
Click to expand...

Parents being held accountable - how old fashioned. :D

I applaud it. it's the parents job to teach the child how to be a good citizen and follow the rules, especially those explicitly meant to protect others. There was a time parents would have insisted on being involved, and didn't try to hide. IMO.
 
The line between being surveilled constantly for your safety and - privacy?
Click to expand...

So I'm just going to throw it out there: privacy is a thing of the past because technology has advanced to the point where your privacy can no longer be guaranteed, and...nobody has really lifted a finger to protest. That said...since privacy is essentially irrelevant (and quite a moot subject) the matter of safety enters the discussion. Your decreased privacy has an "upside" in that law enforcement is better able to provide for your safety.
A personal anecdote: in the years that I worked in a maximum security detention facility, every move, every spoken word was observed in real time and recorded. That's how it was, it could work for your benefit or...not.
 
Last edited:
Along with the diverse personalities of those that are gathering our digital info to keep us safe, are criminals also. When they use their computer skills to manipulate the data for their nefarious reasons a lot of malfeasance will occur. We can not stop this from happening. We can only, after the fact, try and prosecute them for criminal behavior. The damage has been done.
 
I'm going to start using PayPal wherever I can instead of a credit card. It's much safer. I think there are some other technologies out there that I don't know about such as PayWallet or something like that, and ApplePay. I'll need to research it. If anyone has any experience with them, please respond. :)
 
I use PayPal a lot - but it is linked to my credit card so the money still comes from my credit card

I think you can do it whereby you deposit money into a PayPal account and purchases come from that.
 
Eupher said:
Nobody said being a parent is easy. If a parent becomes aware that one of their children is violating the law by operating a motor vehicle and chooses not to act on it, there is some sort of legal accountability that the parent should be held to.
Click to expand...

Yes, but punishing the parents for monitoring the kids driving will have the effect of making things less safe because then other parents won't want to use the app to monitor their kids because it puts themselves at risk.

And where would the cutoffs be? How many times does the parent need to correct the child, what are the limits for taking away the keys? It is not sufficiently defined to fairly shift the blame to the parent. Teens are maturing and changing, it is hard to say whether/when they will listen and change their behavior.

I can see holding a parent responsible for lending a car knowing it would be used to rob a bank, but for driving infractions I don't think the parent is responsible. I would be in favor of more government oversight to the point that the police have a tracking device on the teen's driving and automatically issue tickets or arrest warrants. Heck, I'd be okay with that for all drivers.
 
January said:
I use PayPal a lot - but it is linked to my credit card so the money still comes from my credit card

I think you can do it whereby you deposit money into a PayPal account and purchases come from that.
Click to expand...
I think it's a lot easier to stop a payment with PayPal than directly with a credit card. You can just go online and select "don't pay" or something like that, as apposed to having to call the bank and deal with people who'd rather be doing something else.
 
Nathan said:
So I'm just going to throw it out there: privacy is a thing of the past because technology has advanced to the point where your privacy can no longer be guaranteed, and...nobody has really lifted a finger to protest. That said...since privacy is essentially irrelevant (and quite a moot subject) the matter of safety enters the discussion. Your decreased privacy has an "upside" in that law enforcement is better able to provide for your safety.
A personal anecdote: in the years that I worked in a maximum security detention facility, every move, every spoken word was observed in real time and recorded. That's how it was, it could work for your benefit or...not.
Click to expand...
If I may add "almost nobody", you're right. In my country the people are happy, as long as the beer price is inexpensive and the unconditional basic income (Bürgergeld) is guaranteed.
 
HoneyNut said:
Yes, but punishing the parents for monitoring the kids driving will have the effect of making things less safe because then other parents won't want to use the app to monitor their kids because it puts themselves at risk.

And where would the cutoffs be? How many times does the parent need to correct the child, what are the limits for taking away the keys? It is not sufficiently defined to fairly shift the blame to the parent. Teens are maturing and changing, it is hard to say whether/when they will listen and change their behavior.

I can see holding a parent responsible for lending a car knowing it would be used to rob a bank, but for driving infractions I don't think the parent is responsible. I would be in favor of more government oversight to the point that the police have a tracking device on the teen's driving and automatically issue tickets or arrest warrants. Heck, I'd be okay with that for all drivers.
Click to expand...
Please allow me to argue with you a little, mostly in the form of questions.

Why is the "app" the be-all, end-all in handling driving habits of teenagers? Because of the encroachment that such a device puts on both the parents and the kid? And why would one set of parents' decision whether or not to employ such a device impact another set of parents? Are we really at a point of "keeping up with the Jones's" in having to have a snoop app? Smacks of over-reliance on gadgets and gizmos, seems to me. YMMV.

The cutoffs? In administering discipline to a child? Isn't that a personal decision made by a parent based on his/her specific knowledge of their under-age child who somehow has been granted a license to drive a motor vehicle? You're right in saying it's "hard to say whether/when they will listen and change their behavior". That's one of the challenges of being a parent, but allowing a device or the government to make that call removes the authority and the responsibility from the parent -- which is where it belongs. The government has already determined, superficially, that the child is sufficiently mature and responsible enough to drive a motor vehicle. But the government should NEVER know more about a parent's child than the parent does.

And yes, I'll agree with you that the licensed, under-age child is responsible for his/her traffic infractions. But please tell me, at which point does the parent intervene when those traffic infractions result in court cases (and the resulting expenses), fines, traffic citations, and the other issues (largely financial) that result from that misbehavior? Leaving it up to the government to manage a child on behalf of the parent is simply wrong.
 
Eupher said:
The cutoffs? In administering discipline to a child? Isn't that a personal decision made by a parent based on his/her specific knowledge of their under-age child who somehow has been granted a license to drive a motor vehicle?
Click to expand...
No, I meant the cutoffs as regards to parents being legally charged for the teen's bad driving. The case I was watching on YouTube was about a teen boy who drove at very high speeds (apparently at night when finding himself on an empty road), and his mom had a tracker app and had sent him a message in the past telling him not to do that, but he kept doing it and eventually his friend that was with him was killed when the teen lost control of his car. And so she was potentially facing charges.

I just don't think that it's fair to charge the parent unless there are (beforehand) specific defined expectations of when a parent has to say 'no more chances, hand over the keys'. I remember grouching at my daughter once when our tracking app showed she'd driven 82 mph on the highway. Should that have made me legally liable if she got in a wreck and killed someone?
 
HermitHogan said:
I think it's a lot easier to stop a payment with PayPal than directly with a credit card. You can just go online and select "don't pay" or something like that, as apposed to having to call the bank and deal with people who'd rather be doing something else.
Click to expand...


Not quite sure what you are saying here?

sounds like stopping ongoing payments or direct debit type arrangements - I've never used Paypal for those sort of payments, only ever for one off purchases
 

You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top