dilettante
Well-known Member
- Location
- Michigan
Or stop slashing and burning the rainforests to plant avocados?
The Permafrost is melting fast in the Yukon, what are we going to do?
- Thread starter Paco Dennis
- Start date
SamiD
New Member
- Location
- Western USA
The Las Vegas strip uses 8000 megawatts a day! Let that sink in before you think you can do anything that will make any difference. The massive amount of electricity and fossil fuels used at just one pro football game. is unbelievable. Hollywood is a massive waster of energy and polluter. Big music concerts are massive wasters. Anything not necessary to human survival, is a waste.
Yet, the loonies want to blame dairy cows for the occasional belch and minimal methane that can only be measured with special equipment. Humans farting is more of an issue than the cows, but even that is minimal.
Yet, the loonies want to blame dairy cows for the occasional belch and minimal methane that can only be measured with special equipment. Humans farting is more of an issue than the cows, but even that is minimal.
Hadn't thought of any of these! Thanks for those thoughts!
CooCooforCoCoPuffs
Senior Member
Developers get approval for more and more houses because it increases the TAX money the council wants MORE of....money. Can't drink money.
Paco Dennis
SF VIP
- Location
- Mid-Missouri
This is important legislation that will make a difference.
Governor Signs Climate Change Superfund Act (NY)
Nation-Leading Bill Would Charge The Largest Multinational Oil & Gas Companies For New York's Climate Adaptation Costs While Insulating ConsumersAlbany – Today, Governor Kathy Hochul signed the Climate Change Superfund Act (S.2129/A.3351), nation-leading legislation that will use the polluter-pays model exemplified by existing federal and state superfund laws to collect $75 billion over twenty-five years for climate change adaptation from the parties most responsible for causing the climate crisis - big oil and gas companies. The bill was carried in the Senate by Senator Liz Krueger, and in the Assembly by Assembly Member Jeffrey Dinowitz.
"The Climate Change Superfund Act is now law, and New York has fired a shot that will be heard round the world: the companies most responsible for the climate crisis will be held accountable," said Senator Krueger. "Too often over the last decade, courts have dismissed lawsuits against the oil and gas industry by saying that the issue of climate culpability should be decided by legislatures. Well, the Legislature of the State of New York – the 10th largest economy in the world – has accepted the invitation, and I hope we have made ourselves very clear: the planet’s largest climate polluters bear a unique responsibility for creating the climate crisis, and they must pay their fair share to help regular New Yorkers deal with the consequences.
"And there’s no question that those consequences are here, and they are serious," Krueger continued. "Repairing from and preparing for extreme weather caused by climate change will cost more than half a trillion dollars statewide by 2050. That's over $65,000 per household, and that’s on top of the disruption, injury, and death that the climate crisis is causing in every corner of our state. The Climate Change Superfund Act is a critical piece of affordability legislation that will deliver billions of dollars every year to ease the burden on regular New Yorkers."
The Climate Change Superfund Act is modeled on the existing State and Federal Superfund law (which requires polluters to fund toxic waste dump cleanups) by making Big Oil climate polluters financially responsible for the environmental damages that they have caused. The top Big Oil companies will be required to pay a combined total of $75 billion over 25 years. These costs won’t fall back on consumers, according to numerous economists, including Nobel-prize winning economist Joseph Stiglitz and an analysis from the Institute for Policy Integrity at NYU Law.
New York is facing staggering—and growing—climate costs. Last year alone Governor Hochul announced $2.7 billion in taxpayer funding for climate-related infrastructure repairs and upgrades and resilience projects. The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers estimates that it will cost $52 billion just to protect NY Harbor. On top of that, we’ll need $75-$100 billion to protect Long Island, and $55 billion for climate costs across the rest of the state. The state Comptroller has predicted that more than half of local governments’ costs will be attributable to the climate crisis.
Big Oil is at fault for climate change, and it can certainly afford the costs. According to a study in One Earth, the world’s 21 top polluting companies are responsible for $5.4 trillion in climate damages over a period of 26 years. While these climate damage bills pile up for taxpayers, the industry responsible for this mess is raking in cash. From January 2021 through now, Big Oil has made $1 trillion in profits.
Those record profits allowed them to deliver unprecedented returns to shareholders while doing little to address the climate crisis they knew was coming, but did all they could to undermine climate action. Starting in the 1970s, scientists working for Exxon made “remarkably accurate projections of just how much burning fossil fuels would warm the planet.” Yet for years, “the oil giant publicly cast doubt on climate science, and cautioned against any drastic move away from burning fossil fuels, the main driver of climate change.”
The Climate Change Superfund Act isn’t just necessary—it’s popular. According to a poll from Data for Progress, a whopping 89% of New Yorkers support fossil fuel companies covering at least some of the cost for climate damages. Another poll found that 70% of New York voters support the Climate Change Superfund Act, including majorities across party lines. Nationally, 89% of Democratic voters support the Climate Superfund approach, and 53% of New York voters are more likely to vote for candidates who support passing a Climate Superfund bill.
Governor Signs Climate Change Superfund Act
Nathan
SF VIP
- Location
- High Desert- Calif.
Pretty much it. There's the type of person who would rather "shoot the messenger" than accept bad news, or take responsibility...another facet of the ugly side of Human nature.
papa tiger
Well-known Member
Just another Politician slush fund line of crap. U just need to understand that what they do is none of your business. You are the one that has to suffer, not them. They will fly a jet whatever they want to go. Of course, they live above the 70th floor and elevators whisk em about.
dilettante
Well-known Member
- Location
- Michigan
It sounds nuts.
I can't see any court awarding damages levied against oil companies for products burned by customers. Somebody in New York is smoking too much dope.
In the long run I see shortages and high prices in New York and little else coming from this. The gasping panicky tone more than suggests obsession, if not straight-up mental illness.
But we're back once more to the essential question: What are people willing to give up?
I think what's really going on is the plummeting stock prices of "renewable energy" companies, coupled with the projected loss of the massive government subsidies that make it possible at all.
I can't see any court awarding damages levied against oil companies for products burned by customers. Somebody in New York is smoking too much dope.
In the long run I see shortages and high prices in New York and little else coming from this. The gasping panicky tone more than suggests obsession, if not straight-up mental illness.
But we're back once more to the essential question: What are people willing to give up?
I think what's really going on is the plummeting stock prices of "renewable energy" companies, coupled with the projected loss of the massive government subsidies that make it possible at all.
Murrmurr
SF VIP
- Location
- Sacramento, California
"What will be thrust upon them (disguised as solutions)?" is closer to the mark.
Like the over $24 billion taxpayers gave to Calif for The Homeless Project. No one knows where it went. Over $24 billion disappeared like a fart in the wind, and we still have the highest number of homeless people in the country.
And the numbers people do this trick where they distinguish "unsheltered" from "homeless". If you sleep in a tent, a car, or a freaking box, you're sheltered, and don't count as homeless.
SamiD
New Member
- Location
- Western USA
Legislation only will make a difference when it is backed by science, not greed and the entire world cooperates. The entire world is effected, not just the USA which gets the majority of the blame for climate change that is grossly exaggerated by those in power that profit from it.
Look at the many Hollywood stars, millionaires with multiple cars and huge houses that tell the rest of us what polluting worms we are, yet they waste and pollute on a massive scale. Look at the politicians that advocate all kinds of crippling legislation claimed to save the planet, yet they don't practice any of it. They have several huge energy wasting houses, have private jets, have become millionaires since taking office, but yet we the serfs must live with less and praise them for saving the planet.
I love discussing earth science and have concerns about the permafrost, however most of the narratives bombarding our media are not based on science. Much of it is scare tactics so the politicians and elite will continue to get richer and gain control over every aspect of our lives.
Please don't refer to us with years of experience and education concerning earth science, as climate change deniers, when in fact it is the promoters of impending doom that deny basic earth science and seek to control the people, rather than make changes in their lives. They are the true deniers by their actions.
The question was posed here, what can we do as individuals. I say carry on and make what changes give you peace of mind and don't worry about something you cannot do anything about. Why live the remainder of your life all worried and scared for the future? It will only take you to an early grave.
None of us can do anything that will make much, if any, difference. We are like a small baby duck farting on the Pacific ocean.
Look at the many Hollywood stars, millionaires with multiple cars and huge houses that tell the rest of us what polluting worms we are, yet they waste and pollute on a massive scale. Look at the politicians that advocate all kinds of crippling legislation claimed to save the planet, yet they don't practice any of it. They have several huge energy wasting houses, have private jets, have become millionaires since taking office, but yet we the serfs must live with less and praise them for saving the planet.
I love discussing earth science and have concerns about the permafrost, however most of the narratives bombarding our media are not based on science. Much of it is scare tactics so the politicians and elite will continue to get richer and gain control over every aspect of our lives.
Please don't refer to us with years of experience and education concerning earth science, as climate change deniers, when in fact it is the promoters of impending doom that deny basic earth science and seek to control the people, rather than make changes in their lives. They are the true deniers by their actions.
The question was posed here, what can we do as individuals. I say carry on and make what changes give you peace of mind and don't worry about something you cannot do anything about. Why live the remainder of your life all worried and scared for the future? It will only take you to an early grave.
None of us can do anything that will make much, if any, difference. We are like a small baby duck farting on the Pacific ocean.
SamiD
New Member
- Location
- Western USA
The question should not be what the people are willing to give up. but what are the millions of elites and wealthy willing to give up. Ask Taylor Swift what she will give up. She attracts millions of the younger generation and is setting an example of gross greed and a life full of extravagant waste and pollution.
SamiD
New Member
- Location
- Western USA
When the messenger brings news filled with fallacies, then yes we must reject that messenger and go straight to the source, the scientist that have nothing to gain politically and haven't received big grants in exchange for tainted so called science.
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papa tiger
Well-known Member
Couple years ago American water wanted to build a desalting water plant in Monterey.
Voters turned it down in a veritable rough country high bluffs desert. Stated reason,
we don't want more people moving here. 100,000 H2O gallons for the swimming pool
from anywhere else.
California busting dams, anybody ?
The young dig the crazy entertainment out there now. Take The talking Wizards on Videos.
Talk - Talk - Talk, show a stupid video, more talk and another stupid video. Of course there's
Entertainment is stupidity. The more stupid the better it gets. More Talk.
It's so screaming fast and stupidly more stupid. stewpid is fo-evah !
Take the guy strutting along side his rolling truck, run over by it. Thae was some stupidity there.
Voters turned it down in a veritable rough country high bluffs desert. Stated reason,
we don't want more people moving here. 100,000 H2O gallons for the swimming pool
from anywhere else.
California busting dams, anybody ?
The young dig the crazy entertainment out there now. Take The talking Wizards on Videos.
Talk - Talk - Talk, show a stupid video, more talk and another stupid video. Of course there's
Entertainment is stupidity. The more stupid the better it gets. More Talk.
It's so screaming fast and stupidly more stupid. stewpid is fo-evah !
Take the guy strutting along side his rolling truck, run over by it. Thae was some stupidity there.
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Nathan
SF VIP
- Location
- High Desert- Calif.
A lot of the present day resistance to the Climate Change science is fueled by the special interests and partisan elements that were butt-hurt and lost their minds that former Vice President Al Gore not only brought the topic of Climate Change into the public awareness, but that he earned a Nobel prize for those efforts as well.
Paco Dennis
SF VIP
- Location
- Mid-Missouri
What are we going to do? Stop the massive amounts of waste and pollution caused by endless wars.
3 Key Facts About How War Impacts the Climate Crisis and the Environment
3 Key Facts About How War Impacts the Climate Crisis and the Environment
- Militaries consume enormous amounts of fossil fuels, which contributes directly to global warming. If the US military were a country, for example, it would have the 47th highest emissions total worldwide.
- Bombings and other methods of modern warfare directly harm wildlife and biodiversity. The collateral damage of conflict can kill up to 90% of large animals in an area.
- Pollution from war contaminates bodies of water, soil, and air, making areas unsafe for people to inhabit.
Babs2u
Senior Member
Climate alarmism might help.
George1959
Senior Member
"In a 2015 open letter to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), he (John Coleman, co-founder of 'The Weather Channel') claimed that a causal relationship between rising levels of atmospheric CO2 and rising temperatures had not been shown to exist. He called global warming the "greatest scam in history".
John Coleman (meteorologist) - Wikipedia
I'm going to do ... nothing.
John Coleman (meteorologist) - Wikipedia
I'm going to do ... nothing.
What interesting thoughts, on multiple aspects of this topic.
The bottom line is this: Mother Earth will always win. The earth will still be here in one form or another; certain types of life will cease to exist (woolly mammoths and dinosaurs come to mind) or exist in a radically changed form (Homo Sapiens). Climate will change; poles may shift (again); surviving life forms will evolve. This is nothing new. It has occurred since the earth was formed and will continue to occur no matter what humans may do to try to stop it or move it in a different direction.
For now, however, those who push fear-mongering actions onto the general population have something to gain: money and power. Converting from fossil fuels to so-called renewables will cost trillions of dollars and those trillions of dollars will be the transfer of money (which is labor) from Us to Them. The Powers who control us (or try to) must be careful not to reduce the population, which They have openly stated is a goal, below the level where They have too few people to support Them.
The conundrum is the consumer population that supports the Elites is the Middle Class, whose very consumerism is what They need. The cost of moving completely from fossil fuels to all renewables will be so costly, the Middle Class will eventually be priced out of the market. What can They do to prevent that? Print more money and increase taxes. What does that do? Increases inflation and forces the Middle Class to pay the government to subsidize Their plans and efforts whereby we pay for the production of what They want us to buy. We pay for it twice!
The government (us) pays them to build a factory to make EV's, passes laws where only EV's will be manufactured after 2030 so we will be forced to buy them, putting $$$ in the pockets of those who didn't pay to manufacture them in the first place. Do They think that will give Them more control? Of course. Eventually, however, it may be Their downfall, or at least that is my hope.
If reducing use of energy and other consumables will not "save the earth" in the form we want or think we want, it may reduce the amount of power and control They are gaining over us. It may reduce the transfer of my labor ($$$) to their pockets. I intend to reduce that as much as I can by using/buying less. So take that Soros/Gates/Musk/et. al. Will it work? Probably not but at least any suffering is my choice, not forced upon me by others.
The bottom line is this: Mother Earth will always win. The earth will still be here in one form or another; certain types of life will cease to exist (woolly mammoths and dinosaurs come to mind) or exist in a radically changed form (Homo Sapiens). Climate will change; poles may shift (again); surviving life forms will evolve. This is nothing new. It has occurred since the earth was formed and will continue to occur no matter what humans may do to try to stop it or move it in a different direction.
For now, however, those who push fear-mongering actions onto the general population have something to gain: money and power. Converting from fossil fuels to so-called renewables will cost trillions of dollars and those trillions of dollars will be the transfer of money (which is labor) from Us to Them. The Powers who control us (or try to) must be careful not to reduce the population, which They have openly stated is a goal, below the level where They have too few people to support Them.
The conundrum is the consumer population that supports the Elites is the Middle Class, whose very consumerism is what They need. The cost of moving completely from fossil fuels to all renewables will be so costly, the Middle Class will eventually be priced out of the market. What can They do to prevent that? Print more money and increase taxes. What does that do? Increases inflation and forces the Middle Class to pay the government to subsidize Their plans and efforts whereby we pay for the production of what They want us to buy. We pay for it twice!
The government (us) pays them to build a factory to make EV's, passes laws where only EV's will be manufactured after 2030 so we will be forced to buy them, putting $$$ in the pockets of those who didn't pay to manufacture them in the first place. Do They think that will give Them more control? Of course. Eventually, however, it may be Their downfall, or at least that is my hope.
If reducing use of energy and other consumables will not "save the earth" in the form we want or think we want, it may reduce the amount of power and control They are gaining over us. It may reduce the transfer of my labor ($$$) to their pockets. I intend to reduce that as much as I can by using/buying less. So take that Soros/Gates/Musk/et. al. Will it work? Probably not but at least any suffering is my choice, not forced upon me by others.
SamiD
New Member
- Location
- Western USA
Al Gore knows nothing about earth science and climate change, nothing! All he knows is the politics. Since politics isn't allowed here, I will say no more about it, other than science and politics must be divided before anyone can discuss science intelligently. When politics and emotion enters a scientific discussion, it becomes one of ignorance where an angry teenage girl is given more credence than high level scientist.
Let's get back to the topic, a statement, then a question. "The permafrost is melting fast in the Yukon!" "What are we going to do?"
Is the permafrost really melting fast? True it is melting, but has been slowed in recent years. As I mentioned earlier, reflective materials have shown promise, although scientist haven't come up with a solution on how to use them on a large enough scale to reverse the melt.
Natives of the Yukon have experimented in enlarging their herds of bovines and that has also shown results. That puzzles many since they have been duped into believing that bovines produce methane at dangerous levels. The bovines paw off the snow layer to get the grass underneath and this exposes the permafrost to lower temperatures, thus stopping melt. These folks ask not what can government do for me, but what can I do for myself.
The earth will destroy humans, they won't destroy it. No one is saving the planet because it doesn't need saved. Besides things like volcanos have destroyed humans and life since the beginning. One volcanic eruption does more damage to the atmosphere than man could ever do.
The ring of fire isn't there because of anything man has done. This is why no politics is involved discussing it. When it goes off, the destruction to human life and the changes it will bring to the earth, are so enormous that it is hard to grasp such. Should we all panic about this?
Interesting that the permafrost melt is said to be because of the thinning protective layer holding in the earths atmosphere. Strange that recently scientist working with NASA have discovered it is much thicker than it was 20 years ago, yet the burning of fossil fuels has increased, especially the burning of coal in China. How did it get thicker? Were we given false data in order to scare people into accepting being serfs in a kingdom where wealthy polluter elites rule and live lavishly?
Hopefully the future holds more honesty in journalism especially regarding science. The most dangerous thing isn't environmental, but social media where anyone can become an expert, even a bartender, now a congresswoman that just parrots one false environmental narrative after another and promotes panic. My point? She isn't a scientist, doesn't understand basic electricity or earth science, and has just become a voice for the elites.
Disregard anything a politician or Hollywood elite says about science and study earth science for yourself. Maybe open up that old text from High School or your College years before science was controlled by politics.
Paco Dennis
SF VIP
- Location
- Mid-Missouri
how is this logic wrong about global warming? "Al Gore knows nothing about earth science and climate change, nothing! All he knows is the politics. Since politics isn't allowed here, I will say no more about it, other than science and politics must be divided before anyone can discuss science intelligently. When politics and emotion enters a scientific discussion, it becomes one of ignorance where an angry teenage girl is given more credence than high level scientist.
Let's get back to the topic, a statement, then a question. "The permafrost is melting fast in the Yukon!" "What are we going to do?"
Is the permafrost really melting fast? True it is melting, but has been slowed in recent years. As I mentioned earlier, reflective materials have shown promise, although scientist haven't come up with a solution on how to use them on a large enough scale to reverse the melt.
Natives of the Yukon have experimented in enlarging their herds of bovines and that has also shown results. That puzzles many since they have been duped into believing that bovines produce methane at dangerous levels. The bovines paw off the snow layer to get the grass underneath and this exposes the permafrost to lower temperatures, thus stopping melt. These folks ask not what can government do for me, but what can I do for myself.
The earth will destroy humans, they won't destroy it. No one is saving the planet because it doesn't need saved. Besides things like volcanos have destroyed humans and life since the beginning. One volcanic eruption does more damage to the atmosphere than man could ever do.
The ring of fire isn't there because of anything man has done. This is why no politics is involved discussing it. When it goes off, the destruction to human life and the changes it will bring to the earth, are so enormous that it is hard to grasp such. Should we all panic about this?
Interesting that the permafrost melt is said to be because of the thinning protective layer holding in the earths atmosphere. Strange that recently scientist working with NASA have discovered it is much thicker than it was 20 years ago, yet the burning of fossil fuels has increased, especially the burning of coal in China. How did it get thicker? Were we given false data in order to scare people into accepting being serfs in a kingdom where wealthy polluter elites rule and live lavishly?
Hopefully the future holds more honesty in journalism especially regarding science. The most dangerous thing isn't environmental, but social media where anyone can become an expert, even a bartender, now a congresswoman that just parrots one false environmental narrative after another and promotes panic. My point? She isn't a scientist, doesn't understand basic electricity or earth science, and has just become a voice for the elites.
Disregard anything a politician or Hollywood elite says about science and study earth science for yourself. Maybe open up that old text from High School or your College years before science was controlled by politic"
The logic in this argument contains several inaccuracies and misleading claims about global warming:
1. **Permafrost Melting Trends**: While permafrost is melting due to rising global temperatures, the claim that it has "slowed" lacks scientific consensus. Studies show permafrost thaw continues to accelerate in many regions, releasing greenhouse gases like methane[1][3].
2. **Bovine Impact**: The argument about bovines reducing permafrost melt contradicts established science. Livestock are significant methane emitters, a potent greenhouse gas, outweighing any localized cooling effects from snow removal[3].
3. **Volcanic Emissions vs. Human Activity**: Volcanic eruptions release far less CO₂ annually than human activities like fossil fuel combustion. Human emissions are the dominant driver of climate change[3][5].
4. **Atmospheric Thickness**: The claim that Earth's atmospheric layer has thickened contradicts established data on atmospheric composition and its warming effects due to increased greenhouse gases[5].
These points reflect a misunderstanding of climate science and oversimplify complex processes.
Citations:
[1] Al Gore talks 'Climate Reality,' regrets and hopes for the grandkids. Al Gore talks 'Climate Reality,' regrets and hopes for the grandkids.
[2] The Failure of Al Gore: Part Deux - The American Interest The Failure of Al Gore: Part Deux - The American Interest
[3] Al Gore: These are the skills climate leaders must build now https://algore.com/news/al-gore-these-are-the-skills-climate-leaders-must-build-now
[4] “South Park” apologizes to Al Gore and admits it was wrong about ... [5] Climate Leadership - Al Gore https://algore.com/about/the-climate-crisis
[6] Science and Storytelling: Al Gore and the Climate Debate - DOI https://academic.oup.com/minnesota-...er-abstract/175007825?redirectedFrom=fulltext
[7] Al Gore Connects Climate Change Inaction to Political Dysfunction https://woods.stanford.edu/news/al-gore-connects-climate-change-inaction-political-dysfunction
[8] Al Gore thinks our political system can save the climate. His ... - Vox https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2017/8/11/15943200/al-gore-still-has-faith
[9] Al Gore: These are the skills climate leaders must build now https://www.weforum.org/stories/2022/02/al-gore-climate-policy-leadership-skills-climate-change/
[10] Lifetime of Achievement: Al Gore | Sustainability Magazine https://sustainabilitymag.com/articles/lifetime-of-achievement-al-gore
Timewise 60+
Senior Member
How can you continue to live with all of this happening around you?
Timewise 60+
Senior Member
You may get very old waiting for this to take you out...
Timewise 60+
Senior Member
You that fear our future due to environmental change, please spend as much time researching information as to why this in fact will not happen as you have on why it may happen. In time, you will feel better...
Babs2u
Senior Member
The term "Hollywood Elite" sounds very political to me.