The right to die..

Murrmurr said:
I guess if there's no way for them to communicate their wishes, they're out of luck. But there are several different types of communication devices available for people who are not able to vocalize and write.

Example: Steve Hawkins used one.
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Looks like I am in a minority, what I see is euthanasia, others interpret it as a blessed release. The so-called Nazi Euthanasia Program targeted Germans with mental and physical disabilities. It claimed the lives of an estimated 250,000 people. Am I being over dramatic? Give those in power to do what Hitler did and you will have let the genie out of the bottle.
 

horseless carriage said:
Looks like I am in a minority, what I see is euthanasia, others interpret it as a blessed release. The so-called Nazi Euthanasia Program targeted Germans with mental and physical disabilities. It claimed the lives of an estimated 250,000 people. Am I being over dramatic? Give those in power to do what Hitler did and you will have let the genie out of the bottle.
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Give power to anyone with Hitler-type aspirations and intentions and things will go off the rails very quickly.

We've seen it far too often in a wide range of countries since WWII, no legal blessing on euthanasia needed.
 
Murrmurr said:
I've seen some of her vids. It's a good channel.
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It is. However, I also hate it. But only because it talks of death, which is a reality we all face. That is, for all the hope she tells of, it's still sad. :(

Paco Dennis said:
I think a person who wishes to die because of mental anguish, after having tried unsuccessfully to heal should be given the option for assisted suicide. So many of them try anyway, with terrible results that follow, that makes things worse. I don't feel confident enough to stop them from doing what they want.
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As I say, it's a tough one, Paco. But mental illness, itself, isn't fatal. Actions taken while depressed may be, but the disease isn't. So now you're down to someone who otherwise would live a full life, deciding to get off the train. That's different from someone with Stage 4 Cancer and has been given three months. At least for me. Suicide is an option for everyone, in all walks of life, it's not unique to the clinically depressed. It's a difficult one.

Murrmurr said:
I guess if there's no way for them to communicate their wishes, they're out of luck. But there are several different types of communication devices available for people who are not able to vocalize and write.

Example: Steve Hawkins used one.
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The phrase "they're out of luck" is a little....... nah.

StarSong said:
When my mother had a catastrophic stroke from which she never regained consciousness, I abided by the wishes she'd expressed many times, both before before her dementia had set in. It was also clearly stated on a DNR and other paperwork she'd signed.

Nevertheless, as the person with her legal and medical power of attorney, I had to sign documents removing all care, including IV fluids, arranging for end of life hospice care. Although a very difficult moment for me, this was about her, and following her wishes. She passed 13 days later.

It was one of the final kindness I could offer her.
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Sorry to hear of your loss. And yes, you're right. I wonder how many others have had that discussion? If DNR is an option, why do we need a right to die option? Worth a thought, I think.

horseless carriage said:
Looks like I am in a minority, what I see is euthanasia, others interpret it as a blessed release. The so-called Nazi Euthanasia Program targeted Germans with mental and physical disabilities. It claimed the lives of an estimated 250,000 people. Am I being over dramatic? Give those in power to do what Hitler did and you will have let the genie out of the bottle.
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I think too few truly consider the nefarious nature of some people. Before even thinking of legislation like this, I think you have to consider all the ways it could be abused. And I mean from family members, and corporate entities who don't want to treat because of cost, etc. Or indeed, to hide acts they want hidden. Every hole needs plugging. Without full and detailed consideration of these details, then we're on dangerous ground.

While we immediately go to people with an identified terminal illness, this thread has already dipped into people with depression, doe example. Sadly, this is the real world, and it's not all loving, caring, and heartfelt.
 

Murrmurr said:
I don't know any circumstance where a person would be absolutely unable to communicate their needs and wants unless they're in a coma or vegetative state....but I didn't wanna go into it.
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It was the phrase that bothered me, because I'm not seeing an "luck" here for anyone. ;)

Feelings can be transient. I don't want to go into detail either, but what seems like the best thing for an hour, a day, a week, or three months, may yet flourish into something worthwhile. I mean, if you get AIDS today, you could opt to get medication and live your life, or you could decide you're damaged, that your life isn't worth living since you're a danger to others, and that you're horribly depressed etc. Yet how many people decide not to take the meds that save them?

Let's be clear here. Life can be described many ways, and the life force in us all is strong. That said, death is but one act away from any of us. Finding ways to die isn't the problem, not following through is.
 
Murrmurr said:
I don't know any circumstance where a person would be absolutely unable to communicate their needs and wants unless they're in a coma or vegetative state....but I didn't wanna go into it.
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Dementia, Alzheimer’s or any disease that
Shrinks blood vessels ( any autoimmune disease ).
 
Murrmurr said:
Those are not considered terminal illnesses. They do not meet the criteria for assisted suicide.
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No they don’t but I believe they should be.
Who wants to be in a nursing home not knowing what’s going on and getting our diapers changed?

. The laws are the way they are mainly due to the money that can be made. Nursing homes are basically warehousing humans beyond life expectancy. It’s not right in so many ways.
 
PeppermintPatty said:
No they don’t but I believe they should be.
Who wants to be in a nursing home not knowing what’s going on and getting our diapers changed?

. The laws are the way they are mainly due to the money that can be made. Nursing homes are basically warehousing humans beyond life expectancy. It’s not right in so many ways.
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Noooo, I don't think the last paragraph is true. is it okay if I disagree?

Nursing Homes may well be profit-oriented businesses, but hell - we all live in the Western World that is predicated, and mostly controlled, by the capitalist system, so can you really complain about it? If you do, surely only a socialist system would improve things.

But I think the current laws around assisted suicide are actually rooted in Christianity. The sanctity of live. That is how the value of a life has been codified in the past, and it went into our laws. The reason we don't (currently) allow people to die on command is because we, as a society, put great value in life.

Of course, around that are all kinds of social, financing, and legal ramifications.

But I mentioned this earlier, and I'll ask you directly. Are we, as individuals, really short of ways of ending our lives? We have a member (who you'll know, but I don't want to mention because the forum will alert her to it, and I think it would cause unnecessary grief) who is in great mourning because a family member ended their life. Yet in this "right to die" model, that person would have been perfectly entitled to end things. Either way, given the choice made, there's nothing anyone can do about it, but it just gets real close to being too dangerous. Sort of the Pandora's Box thing. No?
 
VaughanJB said:
Noooo, I don't think the last paragraph is true. is it okay if I disagree?

Nursing Homes may well be profit-oriented businesses, but hell - we all live in the Western World that is predicated, and mostly controlled, by the capitalist system, so can you really complain about it? If you do, surely only a socialist system would improve things.

But I think the current laws around assisted suicide are actually rooted in Christianity. The sanctity of live. That is how the value of a life has been codified in the past, and it went into our laws. The reason we don't (currently) allow people to die on command is because we, as a society, put great value in life.

Of course, around that are all kinds of social, financing, and legal ramifications.

But I mentioned this earlier, and I'll ask you directly. Are we, as individuals, really short of ways of ending our lives? We have a member (who you'll know, but I don't want to mention because the forum will alert her to it, and I think it would cause unnecessary grief) who is in great mourning because a family member ended their life. Yet in this "right to die" model, that person would have been perfectly entitled to end things. Either way, given the choice made, there's nothing anyone can do about it, but it just gets real close to being too dangerous. Sort of the Pandora's Box thing. No?
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Of course you can disagree with me.
What I mean by being warehoused is this.
Years ago people just died at home. Now they go into hospital and get transferred to a nursing home when it’s available. Generally speaking, nursing and retirement homes make a fortune off of dying people. Once you are in ‘the system’ they make you dependent on them. For instance, helping take medicine is about $500 a month. Helping patients shower twice a week is another huge amount.
People never lived as long as they do now. They mainly died of natural causes.
 
Repondering said:
with the cooperation of a sympathetic medical doctor, the procedure can be discreetly performed.
I know this for a fact.
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Yes, I had a roommate when I was young (she was 24 yrs old) who got mouth cancer and she confided to me that her doctor assured her that he would give her pills that would allow her to choose when she wanted to go. She was so grateful. As it turned out the cancer went to her brain and she went into a coma until the end. But it is true that doctors have been doing this for some patients, so we might as well make it legal.

I wish they would make it all totally legal. I had a nephew that developed a degenerating disease and he didn't want to lose the ability to take care of himself so he shot himself, causing trauma to his girlfriend who came home to the scene and a bad setback to his already psychologically fragile sister (as well as sadness in all the family of course).

If my nephew had a legal suicide option, especially with counseling, then probably he would at minimum have stayed alive for a few years until he lost the ability to care for himself, no one would have been traumatized by brains blown out in their apartment, the family could have had time to adjust, and perhaps he himself would have felt differently overtime.
 
PeppermintPatty said:
People never lived as long as they do now. They mainly died of natural causes.
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Most still do die of natural causes. Problem is modern medicine continues to prop people up long after there's any quality of life. When someone has advanced dementia or Alzheimer's, why are they kept on meds lowering blood pressure and cholesterol levels? Makes no sense to me.
 
StarSong said:
Most still do die of natural causes. Problem is modern medicine continues to prop people up long after there's any quality of life. When someone has advanced dementia or Alzheimer's, why are they kept on meds lowering blood pressure and cholesterol levels? Makes no sense to me.
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When dementia sets in and there’s no quality of life, they should have the option to go even if that means giving them drugs to help them.
There’s nothing evil about that. I think it’s evil to keep them warehoused for as long as they do.
 
When I worked in a psych. hospital, it was not uncommon for patients to want to commit suicide. They were ingenious and diligent. They came up with ways to off themselves, which could have been quite effective. They didn't need any assistance. To me, that brings up the question why some need assistance. It's not hard-, like take a bunch of pills and go to sleep- forever. Even when assisted suicide devices are activated by the user, the user is relying on the "assistant" to set him up. Needing that second party to complete a suicide brings into question about the suicide's true feelings.

BTW, when I was very sick, bed ridden, with all kinds of tubes in my neck and in real pain, I figured out how to commit suicide with a hospital bed. Obviously, I didn't do it. and if I did, I wouldn't have needed assistance.
 
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I doubt that any of the physical-assisted suicide laws allow someone to be euthanized just because he/she is depressed. In the states where they have this kind. civilized alternative to a horrible, protracted death, the medical staff is strictly regulated. The patient has to sign forms, etc. showing that they understand what they are agreeing to, and giving permission. They also understand that there is no force involved, and they can always change their mind, even at the last minute.

Comparing medically assisted suicide for the terminally ill, in a modern hospital, with Nazi Germany and Hitler's version of "euthanization" is insane. It's like saying don't ever have surgery, because the doctor might be a raving nut. (The streaming channels are full of thrillers like that.)
 
Sunny said:
I doubt that any of the physical-assisted suicide laws allow someone to be euthanized just because he/she is depressed. In the states where they have this kind. civilized alternative to a horrible, protracted death, the medical staff is strictly regulated. The patient has to sign forms, etc. showing that they understand what they are agreeing to, and giving permission. They also understand that there is no force involved, and they can always change their mind, even at the last minute.

Comparing medically assisted suicide for the terminally ill, in a modern hospital, with Nazi Germany and Hitler's version of "euthanization" is insane. It's like saying don't ever have surgery, because the doctor might be a raving nut. (The streaming channels are full of thrillers like that.)
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Well, the article I linked to (which isn't a story based in the US, admittedly) outlines a case where mental illness is the one and only reason this young woman is choosing death. She does not have a terminal illness.
 
VaughanJB said:
Well, the article I linked to (which isn't a story based in the US, admittedly) outlines a case where mental illness is the one and only reason this young woman is choosing death. She does not have a terminal illness.
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The incident I heard about the convinced me that some people with mental illness should be allowed to access MAID in Canada, was a young man who had some kind of brain disfunction that caused him to feel non stop, uncontrollable pain over his whole body. He'd seen so many doctors, he lost track and the only thing they could do (because he had no discerbable disease or injury) was medicate him so that he was unable to function and yet he still felt pain. Only 25 and such a horrible way to live eh?

He applied but was refused and the only thing he could do to end his suffering was go looking for a heroin dealer so that he could OD alone in a motel somewhere. He didn't want to get his parents in trouble by doing it at home.




Adam’s story…..Adam’s Story | Maggie Maier
 
RIP Lilly
euthanasia became legal in South Australia in January 2023

This very brave 23 year old woman applied for assisted dying on her own terms and was accepted , she had suffered horrendous pain for most of her young life.

As well as having Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome, a disorder caused by genetic changes that affect connective tissue, Ms Thai is understood to have autoimmune autonomic ganglionopathy, a condition in which the body’s immune system attacks the autonomic nervous system.
The Advertiser reported that she’d lost her ability to walk, use her bowels, eat and drink without becoming sick and spent much of the past six years since the age of 17, in hospital.

The young woman said she was looking forward to being free from the suffering she has endured due to terminal illness.

what a brave young woman
A young Australian has chosen to die after years of suffering. These laws made it possible
 

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