The right to die..

VaughanJB said:
I hope you're not too sensitive on this topic (this seems to imply you are). This is always going to be a difficult topic, and if people have opposing views, surely that's okay? I mean, it's not like we're making the laws ourselves.

Personally I can understand both sides on the subject. Seriously, I get it. I'm just very very worried about it, and what it can mean to a wider society. I'm uncomfortable. I think that's a very human reaction to opting for death. I can't change the way things are going, and I'm not campaigning against it, but within the confines of this forum, I'm worried.
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aw, it's okay, boss, these neurotic vicious grasping clinging whiny hate-ridden old do-gooders, they're so easy, it's not hardly even fun any more.
 

This discussion made me think of the abortion battle now raging also, Pepper. It's not too different from people having the right to prevent pregnancy or birth, in their own body. And the right to die also involves a person's decision about their own body.

These issues could all be summed up by: When it comes to someone else's body, MYOB.
 

Sunny said:
This discussion made me think of the abortion battle now raging also, Pepper. It's not too different from people having the right to prevent pregnancy or birth, in their own body. And the right to die also involves a person's decision about their own body.

These issues could all be summed up by: When it comes to someone else's body, MYOB.
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I agree, and neither issue should be legislated. It's between you and your doctor, period.
 
StarSong said:
From what I've heard, he knew there was something terribly wrong with his brain but couldn't convince the doctors of it. I believe he committed suicide during a time of full sanity.
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From what I’ve read, I totally agree. I think he wanted to leave this earth before he completely lost his mind. He left this earth being the famous funny guy and having his dignity in check.
 
timoc said:
That is what is wrong with so called society and so called do gooders. dying is a personal and family business, not for outsiders poking their noses in where they are not wanted.
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Interesting. How do you feel about taking illegal drugs in the comfort of your own home? How about target practice with firearms in your living room? How about drink and driving - I mean, if you don't hit anyone, or endanger them, it's harmless right? And speed limits - if no-one is around, does it matter if you go 3X over the limit?

It's all a matter of perspective. What's truly surprising to me is that someone like yourself doesn't seem to think society as a whole should have any say, or opinion, about people effectively committing suicide. It's got nothing to do with "do-gooders". The question is, why can't people disagree on things without over-the-top comments like your own cropping up? We're all oldies here, and death isn't too far away. Talking about things is what people do.

You do know that it was such discussions, and yes disagreement, that enables the law in the first place, right??!?

PeppermintPatty said:
Of course it’s ok if people disagree. I don’t mind in the least. In fact, I expect it. It’s a sensitive topic. Maybe I’m expecting too much for people to treat it accordingly but that’s just me. I understand not every is going to agree. What I don’t understand is why they have to be rude about.

I’m sorry you are having marital problems. I think we all do at some point in time. It would be unfair to think we are going to agree on everything, all the time. Someday I wonder why I’m married but it’s a fleeting thought that passes quickly.

If we ARE given the choice to die peacefully, why can’t others accept that? Like Timac said , it’s none of anyone’s business
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Sorry, I didn't see anyone being rude in the thread (well, maybe one that I replied to above).

I'm surprised at your last line though. What does "accept it" mean? If one disagrees with it, then they disagree with it. The passing of a law won't likely change that opinion. One can accept it's legal, but it doesn't mean they have to like it. It seems to me that what you're really saying is, "why do they have to keep expressing their doubts", which is strange. Think of the debate on abortion - laws were made, enacted, and then generations later reversed. Laws are more fluid than we think. We're having a similar thing in the UK with the so called Brexit. Plenty of people still campaign for rejoining the EU, having disagreed with leaving in the first place.

I also think state sanctioned suicide is everyone's business. I happen to not agree with the Death Penalty, for example. I've never known anyone who has been killed this way, but I do think it's of concern to everyone. It's not the individuals death that's the issue - it's that the state sanctions people giving up and killing themselves. Do you really think society, and individuals, should mind their own business when it comes to suicide?

Just for the record, because clearly some are getting upset (not aiming this at you specifically), I have stated before that I can see both sides of the argument. I can appreciate someone is terrible pain, with days, perhaps months to live, might want to end things. But I'll never be comfortable with someone killing themselves. Since we're on a discussion forum, what's wrong with discussing it? What else do we do here?

As I've said - there is no shortage of ways to kill yourself, with or without such a law being in place. It's s shame that an exchange of opinions bothers some, but hey, a lot of topics divide us, largely, that's why talking to people, and the forum, is so interesting, no?

If this is written into law, I accept it's the law. But that only negates the illegality, it's going to remain a hot topic, imo.
 
VaughanJB said:
Interesting. How do you feel about taking illegal drugs in the comfort of your own home? How about target practice with firearms in your living room? How about drink and driving - I mean, if you don't hit anyone, or endanger them, it's harmless right? And speed limits - if no-one is around, does it matter if you go 3X over the limit?

It's all a matter of perspective. What's truly surprising to me is that someone like yourself doesn't seem to think society as a whole should have any say, or opinion, about people effectively committing suicide. It's got nothing to do with "do-gooders". The question is, why can't people disagree on things without over-the-top comments like your own cropping up? We're all oldies here, and death isn't too far away. Talking about things is what people do.

You do know that it was such discussions, and yes disagreement, that enables the law in the first place, right??!?



Sorry, I didn't see anyone being rude in the thread (well, maybe one that I replied to above).

I'm surprised at your last line though. What does "accept it" mean? If one disagrees with it, then they disagree with it. The passing of a law won't likely change that opinion. One can accept it's legal, but it doesn't mean they have to like it. It seems to me that what you're really saying is, "why do they have to keep expressing their doubts", which is strange. Think of the debate on abortion - laws were made, enacted, and then generations later reversed. Laws are more fluid than we think. We're having a similar thing in the UK with the so called Brexit. Plenty of people still campaign for rejoining the EU, having disagreed with leaving in the first place.

I also think state sanctioned suicide is everyone's business. I happen to not agree with the Death Penalty, for example. I've never known anyone who has been killed this way, but I do think it's of concern to everyone. It's not the individuals death that's the issue - it's that the state sanctions people giving up and killing themselves. Do you really think society, and individuals, should mind their own business when it comes to suicide?

Just for the record, because clearly some are getting upset (not aiming this at you specifically), I have stated before that I can see both sides of the argument. I can appreciate someone is terrible pain, with days, perhaps months to live, might want to end things. But I'll never be comfortable with someone killing themselves. Since we're on a discussion forum, what's wrong with discussing it? What else do we do here?

As I've said - there is no shortage of ways to kill yourself, with or without such a law being in place. It's s shame that an exchange of opinions bothers some, but hey, a lot of topics divide us, largely, that's why talking to people, and the forum, is so interesting, no?

If this is written into law, I accept it's the law. But that only negates the illegality, it's going to remain a hot topic, imo.
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I’m still not biting Vaughan. I’ve got no desire to get into an in depth conversation with you. I see you doing this to others on the site but I’m not the least bit interested. Now move along and find someone else to hassle.
 
Talk of 'assisted suicide' has no place in a conversation about (medically) assisted dieing they're distinctly different and any mention of suicide is going well off topi in this context.
 
Rakaia said:
Talk of 'assisted suicide' has no place in a conversation about (medically) assisted dieing they're distinctly different and any mention of suicide is going well off topi in this context.
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Assisted dying IS assisted suicide or assisted euthanasia. They are ALL the same thing.

Here is the first sentence of this thread.

The Scottish parliament is to consider allowing assisted dying for terminally ill people.
 
VaughanJB said:
..........................I also think state sanctioned suicide is everyone's business. I happen to not agree with the Death Penalty, for example. .................
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These two are completely different and neither justifies or refutes the other. Legalized dying with dignity means the patient (who's sick and going to die from their illness or who has no quality of life....) requests and agrees to the procedure after being assessed by doctors and therapists whereas the other, his life is being TAKEN when he doesn't want it to, even when he's healthy. Big difference.

And if dying at a time of my choosing is everyone's business, then maybe all my other life affirming 'health' decisions should be everyone's business. Maybe the neighbours should be consulted if one needs surgery or specific medicines or time in hospice.....where does my right to 'interfere' in someone else's life end?
 
VaughanJB said:
Interesting. How do you feel about taking illegal drugs in the comfort of your own home? How about target practice with firearms in your living room? How about drink and driving - I mean, if you don't hit anyone, or endanger them, it's harmless right? And speed limits - if no-one is around, does it matter if you go 3X over the limit?

It's all a matter of perspective. What's truly surprising to me is that someone like yourself doesn't seem to think society as a whole should have any say, or opinion, about people effectively committing suicide. It's got nothing to do with "do-gooders". The question is, why can't people disagree on things without over-the-top comments like your own cropping up? We're all oldies here, and death isn't too far away. Talking about things is what people do.

You do know that it was such discussions, and yes disagreement, that enables the law in the first place, right??!?



Sorry, I didn't see anyone being rude in the thread (well, maybe one that I replied to above).

I'm surprised at your last line though. What does "accept it" mean? If one disagrees with it, then they disagree with it. The passing of a law won't likely change that opinion. One can accept it's legal, but it doesn't mean they have to like it. It seems to me that what you're really saying is, "why do they have to keep expressing their doubts", which is strange. Think of the debate on abortion - laws were made, enacted, and then generations later reversed. Laws are more fluid than we think. We're having a similar thing in the UK with the so called Brexit. Plenty of people still campaign for rejoining the EU, having disagreed with leaving in the first place.

I also think state sanctioned suicide is everyone's business. I happen to not agree with the Death Penalty, for example. I've never known anyone who has been killed this way, but I do think it's of concern to everyone. It's not the individuals death that's the issue - it's that the state sanctions people giving up and killing themselves. Do you really think society, and individuals, should mind their own business when it comes to suicide?

Just for the record, because clearly some are getting upset (not aiming this at you specifically), I have stated before that I can see both sides of the argument. I can appreciate someone is terrible pain, with days, perhaps months to live, might want to end things. But I'll never be comfortable with someone killing themselves. Since we're on a discussion forum, what's wrong with discussing it? What else do we do here?

As I've said - there is no shortage of ways to kill yourself, with or without such a law being in place. It's s shame that an exchange of opinions bothers some, but hey, a lot of topics divide us, largely, that's why talking to people, and the forum, is so interesting, no?

If this is written into law, I accept it's the law. But that only negates the illegality, it's going to remain a hot topic, imo.
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Go and rattle someone else's cage, I won't waste any more of my time responding to your irritating postings.
 
PeppermintPatty said:
Assisted dying IS assisted suicide or assisted euthanasia. They are ALL the same thing.

Here is the first sentence of this thread.

The Scottish parliament is to consider allowing assisted dying for terminally ill people.
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The American College of Legal Medicine and other organisations have all come out in opposition to using the terms 'suicide' and 'assisted suicide' when discussing the medical practice of aid in dying . Scratch the surface and see the difference.
The distinction is that suicide is a deliberate and intentional act of prematurely ending ones own life. Medically assisted dying is an intervention in the death of the terminally ill with the intention of reducing the suffering of the patient.
 
Rakaia said:
The American College of Legal Medicine and other organisations have all come out in opposition to using the terms 'suicide' and 'assisted suicide' when discussing the medical practice of aid in dying . Scratch the surface and see the difference.
The distinction is that suicide is a deliberate and intentional act of prematurely ending ones own life. Medically assisted dying is an intervention in the death of the terminally ill with the intention of reducing the suffering of the patient.
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I’m not part of that organization but I understand where you’re coming from.
In the end, it’s helping a person die sooner than natural causes.
 
as mentioned upthread this is legal in all states of Australia now, for eligible people, subject to controls and checks.

I think that is a good thing - enough checks to keep it in control but easy enough to access for those who want to do it.
 
Kadee said:
RIP Lilly
.............
The Advertiser reported that she’d lost her ability to walk, use her bowels, eat and drink without becoming sick and spent much of the past six years since the age of 17, in hospital.

The young woman said she was looking forward to being free from the suffering she has endured due to terminal illness.

what a brave young woman
A young Australian has chosen to die after years of suffering. These laws made it possible
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I can't even begin to imagine what life like that would feel like! I'd want to skip the last nasty bit (which would feel unending!) too. I'm glad she's at peace now.
 
I have a cousin in NZ, a doctor and he told about one of his colleagues who was opposed to assisted dying because of her religious beliefs. Her husband had terminal cancer and had sad and painful death. This woman set aside her religious objection to assisted dying and campaigned in favour of it. That impressed me to see her set aside her beliefs to help others avoid unnecessary suffering.
 
When the self-euthanize concoction was given to the wrong person:

(7min 40sec video....and hilarious)

In Calif, patients can DIYE at home but an attending physician or hospice nurse must be present.
 
timoc said:
Go and rattle someone else's cage, I won't waste any more of my time responding to your irritating postings.
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Huh. You are, of course, entitled to do as you please. For me it comes across as avoidance, and since this is a discussion forum, I'm more used to discussing various aspects to an issue. However, let me remind you of the IGNORE function which can remove all of my posts from your feed. ;)

Rakaia said:
The American College of Legal Medicine and other organisations have all come out in opposition to using the terms 'suicide' and 'assisted suicide' when discussing the medical practice of aid in dying . Scratch the surface and see the difference.
The distinction is that suicide is a deliberate and intentional act of prematurely ending ones own life. Medically assisted dying is an intervention in the death of the terminally ill with the intention of reducing the suffering of the patient.
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Personally, I really dislike this play of words. Yes, suicide has a negative connotation, but the difference between this and suicide is wafer thin, if it exists at all. This is the decision by someone to end their life. Society, and the law, has decided this is the right of the individual. We are legalizing suicide in certain circumstances. We shouldn't avoid the hard truths by trying a play on words, imo.
 
Rakaia said:
The American College of Legal Medicine and other organisations have all come out in opposition to using the terms 'suicide' and 'assisted suicide' when discussing the medical practice of aid in dying . Scratch the surface and see the difference.
The distinction is that suicide is a deliberate and intentional act of prematurely ending ones own life. Medically assisted dying is an intervention in the death of the terminally ill with the intention of reducing the suffering of the patient.
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I think that is a very important distinction and one that is overlooked.
 
VaughanJB said:
Personally, I really dislike this play of words. Yes, suicide has a negative connotation, but the difference between this and suicide is wafer thin, if it exists at all. This is the decision by someone to end their life. Society, and the law, has decided this is the right of the individual. We are legalizing suicide in certain circumstances. We shouldn't avoid the hard truths by trying a play on words, imo.
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..
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Suicide isn't illegal now. At least it isn't in Australia.

What is illegal is assisting someone else to do it.

Voluntary assisted dying, where a medical practice legally prescribes and/ or administers medication to cause death is what has been legalised - subject to checks and controls.

I don't see any hard truths in that, just a statement of fact.
And I think it is important to clarify what we mean - that isnt a play on words, it is using words to convey accurately what we mean.
 
January said:
Suicide isn't illegal now. At least it isn't in Australia.

What is illegal is assisting someone else to do it.

Voluntary assisted dying, where a medical practice legally prescribes and/ or administers medication to cause death is what has been legalised - subject to checks and controls.

I don't see any hard truths in that, just a statement of fact.
And I think it is important to clarify what we mean - that isnt a play on words, it is using words to convey accurately what we mean.
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Hello January
I posted this info/ dates on April 3 rd when voluntary assisted dying became legal in …..Australia along with a story of a SA young lady who choose to end her suffering
soon after it was legal to do so

I live in South Aust
@January


Voluntary assisted dying schemes in AUSTRALIA

have been in effect in the following states;

Victoria since 19 June 2019,

Western Australia since 1 July 2021,

Tasmania since 23 October 2022,

Queensland since 1 January 2023,

South Australia since 31 January 2023

and New South Wales since 28 November 2023.
 

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