The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

Incarceration, for what-ever reason seems to create a breeding ground for radical human behavior, be it street gang related or terrorist oriented. What's the alternative? Who knows....the whole notion of controlling/changing human behavior is still a work-in-progress.
 

Interesting links folks, particularly the one April found that indicates that Camp Bucca has been turned into a hotel? How Bizarre! Quite the ambiance I'd say.

However, I can't help but wonder if the articles aren't an attempt to dissuade the public of the West's 'deliberate' involvement in the birth of ISIS. Keeping in mind that in 2001, the Pentagon made the decision to destabilize the Middle East and so stated by General Wesley Clark (including naming five or seven countries there and one of those being Syria whom the Administration wanted to bomb the crap out of until Russia got involved) and considering the following article that discusses a leaked Pentagon document, I think those articles could be construed as propaganda.

A recently released leaked Pentagon document indicates that the Administration knew that the money and weapons they were supplying to known al Qaeda terrorists could morph into something much more heinous but apparently the drive to dethrone Assad was more important as it would open up Syria to a Qatar pipeline that would pre-empt Russia's hold on the LNG market in the region.

The document referred to was widely circulated among the CIA, Homeland Security, the State Department, the FBI, etc., and the article even has commentary by an ex-MI5 agent named Annie Hoffman who in 1991 blew the whistle on MI6 funding of al Qaeda to support the murder of Gaddhafi as well as a Brad Hoff who was previously a Marine serving in Iraq and now working with an on-line publication known as the Levant Report.

It also mentions Joe Biden admitting that the West was knowingly funding Islamist terrorist groups in the region who would subsequently become the group we now know as ISIS.

So basically, while the public thinks that ISIS just magically appeared one day out of the blue, the Western governments and including Saudi Arabia and Turkey were fully aware that their decision to support those terrorists in Syria, was backfiring badly, but it was a case of 'the ends justifies the means'. This statement also should ring some interesting bells or possibly send up a host of red flags, particularly as we Canadians look to our 'Dear Leader' Stevie 'boy' (who likes to play at war even though he never served and doesn't like supporting our veterans once they're no longer useful) pushing through Bill C-51 which would stick us with more state anti-terror laws.

The revelation from an internal US intelligence document that the very US-led coalition supposedly fighting ‘Islamic State’ today, knowingly created ISIS in the first place, raises troubling questions about recent government efforts to justify the expansion of state anti-terror powers.

This is an interesting article and deserves the time it would take to read it. And the military industrial complex continues to 'rake in the cash', thank you tax payers!

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-...ed-isis-tool-overthrow-syrias-president-assad
 
Me too Josiah which is the reason for the disclaimer about balance, although I was not aware that NY Post was one of his.

When I first started reading I thought it was going to be about Abu Grahib. I had never heard of Camp Bucca.
 
Seems like a pretty busy person if he really owns all the companies all over the world. I wonder how much time and effort he has for personal intervention in all these different products. Maybe an occasional reply but when would he have time to read any of those many documents and many publish more than once a day likely. He is just a wealthy person and likely not as much a publisher as a money getter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assets_owned_by_News_Corp

United States


Community Newspaper Group
 
You underestimate our Rupert.
He is very hands on and his editorial policy is usually about enhancing his empire and profits.
Some things he doesn't care about, others he exercises a good deal of control.
 
Dame Warrigal said:
A very interesting article which may or may not be balanced. Nevertheless it provides food for thought.

From New York Post: http://nypost.com/2015/05/30/how-the-us-created-the-camp-where-isis-was-born/
Click to expand...

I repeat again; religion is the curse of humanity. All of this hatred and death over imaginary stories about Gods and miracles that never were. This applies to all religion. The current situation is just the latest outburst of a long historical record of religious divisuvness.
 
tnthomas said:
Incarceration, for what-ever reason seems to create a breeding ground for radical human behavior, be it street gang related or terrorist oriented. What's the alternative? Who knows....the whole notion of controlling/changing human behavior is still a work-in-progress.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, religion has the inside track on that. Get them when they're young. Once bent, as the saying goes.
 
Its a bit like following sheep when it comes to religion,
As far as the going to church every sunday bit go's
"well the churches are like pubs in the uk, the un-used ones being turned into someones idea of a home,
those churches that are still going say it all,
if you stand at the rear it's like looking at a sea of grey heads,
Are these the ones who've thought "well im nearer than further away from death" maybe i should show a presence "just incase he really is there!!!!
or is it those who have done all they wanted to do in life and now are trying to have faith in something?

Lets face it man can not live with man without killing each other, it's been like this ever since time began, worship and having idols again is a form of being different, a form of excepting its ok for one sect or person to have riches more than they could ever spend in any life time but a lot of people fall on their knees when in front of another human being "why" because they're told this human or this sect leader is better than you they have power/riches and you!! your a lower person than they.

religion!! just a load of very old stories told and written by those who could read & write to those who couldn't and to those who needed to have a direction to follow for a better life than 'they
we're having at the time of being told stories that they just couldn't believe any other human could do.

STORY TIME.
It's written that in mondern times it took a team of the best tradesmen to build the "TITANIC" during its first major voyage it hit an iceberg and sank to the bottom on the sea.

Going back into the bible stories it's said a man "noah" heard a voice and was told to build a boat big enough to carry two of every animal possible as a huge storm was about to come and flood the world as we know it,

Now this man "Noah" was'nt a keen DIY person and B&Q (wallmarts etc) wasn't open at the time, but he was given this power "skill" to build such a boat, and ramps that could hold vast weight to allow these huge animals on bourd,
(today your lucky if a roll on roll off ferry can carry the over weight people nevermind huge animals)

But this ARK was built and it survived all that nature could chuck at it, and its still floating about to this day. ( And B&Q / WALLMART and the belfast ship makers who built the titanic?)

Like the church buildings and the followers of the church/religion etc they're not doing to well.
 
Ceding that this thread (which was about a war time blunder that has come back to bite us) has been well and truly hijacked, I can't let all of these statements go unchallenged. My thoughts in blue.
whisteria said:
Its a bit like following sheep when it comes to religion,
As far as the going to church every sunday bit go's
"well the churches are like pubs in the uk, the un-used ones being turned into someones idea of a home,
those churches that are still going say it all,
if you stand at the rear it's like looking at a sea of grey heads,
Are these the ones who've thought "well im nearer than further away from death" maybe i should show a presence "just incase he really is there!!!!
or is it those who have done all they wanted to do in life and now are trying to have faith in something?

I'm not familiar with the current state of UK pubs but I do attend church every Sunday. Yes, my hair is grey, and so is the hair of most of the congregation. There are also younger parents who attend for themselves and because they want their children to receive the teachings of church. Believe me, Sunday School is not what it used to be. The children are permitted, even encouraged to have doubts and question the teachings. This is the 21st Century, after all. It is the same for the adults. Reference to sheep could be construed as insulting except that when taken as a reference to Jesus the Good Shepherd it ceases to offend.

Lets face it man can not live with man without killing each other, it's been like this ever since time began, worship and having idols again is a form of being different, a form of excepting its ok for one sect or person to have riches more than they could ever spend in any life time but a lot of people fall on their knees when in front of another human being "why" because they're told this human or this sect leader is better than you they have power/riches and you!! your a lower person than they.

I've never killed anyone. In fact, my religion tells me that I should not kill. I long for the day when we are evolved enough to live without killing. Those who think that the extermination of all religion will bring us swiftly to this end are not thinking clearly IMO.

religion!! just a load of very old stories told and written by those who could read & write to those who couldn't and to those who needed to have a direction to follow for a better life than 'they were having at the time of being told stories that they just couldn't believe any other human could do.

Actually most of the ancient religions began at oral traditions, long before writing was invented. Later the stories were written down and frozen in time. Anyone who reads the scriptures needs to take these realities into account. We certainly do at our church. That would be the reason why most of the grey headed pew warmers support legislation to legalise same sex marriage.

STORY TIME.
It's written that in mondern times it took a team of the best tradesmen to build the "TITANIC" during its first major voyage it hit an iceberg and sank to the bottom on the sea.

Going back into the bible stories it's said a man "noah" heard a voice and was told to build a boat big enough to carry two of every animal possible as a huge storm was about to come and flood the world as we know it,

Now this man "Noah" was'nt a keen DIY person and B&Q (wallmarts etc) wasn't open at the time, but he was given this power "skill" to build such a boat, and ramps that could hold vast weight to allow these huge animals on bourd,
(today your lucky if a roll on roll off ferry can carry the over weight people nevermind huge animals)

But this ARK was built and it survived all that nature could chuck at it, and its still floating about to this day. ( And B&Q / WALLMART and the belfast ship makers who built the titanic?)

Like the church buildings and the followers of the church/religion etc they're not doing to well.

Are you reading the allegory of the Great Flood as history? No wonder it makes no sense to you.
Click to expand...
 
Hello Dame warrigal,
And many thanks for you point of view ref this topic,
Its a topic i could go on about for hours and hours but ive given a very short write up of how i feel ref any religion,
But its a very good thing to hear all thougts on any subject and lets hope we continue to talk about any subject in the way we've do so ref this one.

I hope your having a nice day and enjoying this time of year " a little warmth never did anyone any harm.
Regards whisteria.
 
Hi there, Wisteria
I can go on for hours and hours too, about lots of things.

I originally posted this thread to examine our failure to recognise that past policies that led to incarceration of various people in one prison became a disaster that has serious repercussions in the present. I never intended this to be a thread about religion but that having happened I am always willing to challenge stereotypical thinking. I know my reality and am prepared to compare it with sweeping generalisations. I also know that my reality is not universal. This leaves a lot of room for discussion and debate. I'm always up for these.

Thanks for your sweet response. I was a bit cheeky but I have a friendly adversary on another forum and this is how we deal with each others posts where there are many issues and points to argue about.

It's the second day of Winter down here - sunny but rather chilly.
 
Hi Dame,
Im very much in the same mind as yourself, ive seen greed death And the results of torture both whilst i served my country and as a civillian after my Army service
And im not going to do nothing should i feel the need is required to help,
I remember when i'd proved myself and my then boss said to me "in some peoples eyes we are some sort of hero's but we're not we just do our job abd then wait for the next one no bells no horns no pats on the back "but sometimes nightmares but you'll never be the person you once were and he was right.

A thought for the day,
Some people live a life never knowing what pain others suffer, some people live a life never looking left or right just ahead, some people never have freedom to breath fresh air see the light of day the darkness of the night and these people are never really content its a shame because these people dont ever get to see what wasted lives they've spent.
It's been really nice talking to you Dame warrigal.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top