The "trial-and-error" Phase of the Country's re-opening

Ronni

Well-known Member
Location
Nashville TN
From Max Fisher of the New York Times.

"There are still huge unanswered questions about the virus. How many people have it, and, by extension, how deadly is it? How often do children spread it? Are people who’ve had it immune from getting it again?

In the United States, there are also unmet benchmarks — which epidemiologists say should be met before reopening. The U.S. is testing fewer people per capita than other countries, and the outbreak is still growing in many states that are starting to reopen.

So how bad will reopening turn out to be?

The most likely scenario, many experts believe, is that the U.S. will spark new outbreaks by ending lockdowns without a more solid plan. That, in turn, could have tragic consequences, with thousands of avoidable deaths.

The US is pushing for reopening as cases continue rising in many parts of the country.” The administration has rejected reopening guidelines from government scientists, calling them too strict.

The author has a useful — if chilling — way of thinking about the new phase: It’s the “trial-and-error” phase, in which different countries take different approaches and the world witnesses the results.

Lithuania, betting that outdoor activity is safer, is blocking off streets for outdoor restaurant service. California is encouraging curbside pickup instead. Denmark is opening schools to younger children (who may be less contagious), while Germany is opening for older children (who may do better following instructions).

“Few want to acknowledge it, but these first phases of reopening are big experiments meant to test the unknowns,” Max told me. “It’s a dangerous game, and it’s worth being cleareyed about the risks we’re all taking on.”
 

Places in Germany and Russia that reopened are again shutting down because of the upsurge of new cases. Sadly, the 'errors' of reopening too soon and the people who ignore the basic guidelines will result in more illness and death. But hey, as long as it boosts the economy.
 
Today's paper already reported a surge in new cases as soon as several states reopened.
 

Places in Germany and Russia that reopened are again shutting down because of the upsurge of new cases. Sadly, the 'errors' of reopening too soon and the people who ignore the basic guidelines will result in more illness and death. But hey, as long as it boosts the economy.


If we keep the economy "down" eventually we will starve to death....do you prefer that?

People must work, just to obtain the basics....keep the kids fed. And some of the "work", is in what may seem unnecessary...certain types of entertainment / restaurants/bars..theaters & so-on but!....if that is where a person has earned a living?.... returning to it is all they can think of.
 
If we keep the economy "down" eventually we will starve to death....do you prefer that?

People must work, just to obtain the basics....keep the kids fed. And some of the "work", is in what may seem unnecessary...certain types of entertainment / restaurants/bars..theaters & so-on but!....if that is where a person has earned a living?.... returning to it is all they can think of.
I'm thinking that 'farm subsidies' should be a priority.
 
China and South Korea are seeing spikes now. Yesterday I watched a healthcare professional say we could be wearing masks for as long as five years!
 
IMO we will see a spike in new cases and deaths as we reopen and probably another spike in the fall.

We may be at work, in the barber chair, the mall, the park, etc... That doesn't mean that it's safe or that the virus is gone. We still need to follow the same basic precautions including staying home as much as possible, social distancing, wearing a mask, washing our hands, etc...

We've all been through our two-month boot camp and now it's really up to each of us to do what we can to protect ourselves and each other until a TNT treatment and vaccine is available.
 
I doubt we will see any appreciable declines in this virus over the next few months....instead, we will probably see an increase in numbers as our society begins to open up. Some say the Summer weather will cause a decline, and another spike in the Fall, but if people don't follow the recommended guidelines, as the economy opens up, any declines may be short lived.
 
I don't know why everyone is so hell-bent on "TESTING." Someone can be tested, they are negative for the virus, and in an hour they are exposed and contract the virus. So why the big emphasis on testing? We can't test everyone, every hour so it's a waste in my opinion. This is getting ridiculous and I'm exhausted with the hysteria.
Take a nap.
 
I have wondered the same thing about the testing, especially since there is nothing much that can be done medically if anyone does have it. Probably the main value of the testing is to identify clusters, and would make it easier to warn people to stay away from certain areas, etc. And of course, if somebody does turn out positive for the virus, with or without being sick, they would know to stay away from other people for several weeks, to avoid spreading it.

Testing negative probably doesn't do any good, for the individual concerned. They should all be careful anyway, and keep to themselves as much as possible. That's all anyone can do until there is a vaccine.
 
So here's the thing. People are getting tired of this already. Social distancing? Not so much from what I've seen. People are unwilling to put their lives on hold because of a virus which may or may not affect them. And lets be honest. Life is uncertain, and fraught with danger. Always has been. Car accidents, cancer, heart disease, lightning, dog bites, all the things that are waiting to kill you. Most Americans will be unwilling to wear a mask for five years. Hell, most of them are unwilling to wear it for 5 minutes. You want to keep families apart for years? Ain't happening. You want to stay in? Fine with me. I was terrified at first, but now I'm just kinda mad.

I wear a mask in public. But am I willing to do that for years? NO. I'll take my chances.

We had plans before this started. Trips to Santa Fe, Las Vegas, Key West. I don't want to give that up.

And my final point -- so much of these rules just shred the Constitution and abridge our rights. Governors are acting like tin pot dictators. People's livelyhoods are threatened or even ruined. Enough already!!
 
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Separate from the various White House Mandates, and the Executive Orders from State Governors and local Mayors, which at this time, at least in my state, can't actually be enforced, there is also one's individual risk assessment.

My own personal assessment of risk may not be the same as yours (the general "you" not any of you personally.) Mine may be higher. Mine may be dictated by the fact that I'm high risk, either because of health or age, or both, or perhaps because I'm a caregiver to, or close to, or live with someone who is. Or perhaps I'm just extremely anxious and stressed about the virus and its potential for harm.

While I personally have NO expectation that everyone is going to stay in and wear a mask and social distance and sanitize everything for months or years so that *I* can stay safe, I DO expect a baseline of common courtesy and respect from those around me. I expect to be told if you do something that might be of risk to me. I expect to be given the choice as to whether or not I'm willing to expose myself to what you've done, and not be judged or ridiculed for exercising that choice.

If I'm out doing necessary errands, I expect that you will at the very least keep your distance especially if you refuse to wear a mask, and grant me the courtesy to move past you without you crowding me, or if I step away you won't keep closing the distance.

I expect to not be shamed because I'm choosing differently than you, or ridiculed because I'm taking extreme precautions. I expect a decree of reciprocity....if I'm not giving you a hard time because you're more casual in your approach, *I* don't expect you to be giving me one because I'm more cautious.

I'm not going to insist that you step up to my level of caution so please DO NOT insist that I step down to yours. Let me do my thing. Feel free to do yours....just please keep your distance while you're doing it.
 
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No one is insisting you stop doing what you're doing to feel safe. Have you been ridiculed for wearing a mask? I have not. But I think a whole lot of people are just willing to take their chances, just to get their life back to normal. I can't say I blame them.

And will you still feel this way once you've been infected and realize you may have infected even more and you're in the hospital not knowing if you're gonna live? I'm just asking.
 
No one is insisting you stop doing what you're doing to feel safe. Have you been ridiculed for wearing a mask? I have not. But I think a whole lot of people are just willing to take their chances, just to get their life back to normal. I can't say I blame them.
I’ve been chastised for being as cautious as I’m being. I’ve been questioned and doubted and told I’m over-reacting, and have had someone I trusted go out and socialize and hang out with two different groups of people with no intention of telling me, and it was entirely by chance that I found out before I came into contact with her again, and then told *I* was wrong for minding.

So yeah. I’ve been ridiculed and betrayed and belittled for my own level of caution and risk assessment.
 
I’ve been chastised for being as cautious as I’m being. I’ve been questioned and doubted and told I’m over-reacting, and have had someone I trusted go out and socialize and hang out with two different groups of people with no intention of telling me, and it was entirely by chance that I found out before I came into contact with her again, and then told *I* was wrong for minding.

So yeah. I’ve been ridiculed and betrayed and belittled for my own level of caution and risk assessment.

I've caught flack for distancing cuz they think I'm being a snob. They don't seem to get the fact that I'm older. My chances of surviving are a lot less than theirs.
 
I don't know why everyone is so hell-bent on "TESTING." Someone can be tested, they are negative for the virus, and in an hour they are exposed and contract the virus. So why the big emphasis on testing? We can't test everyone, every hour so it's a waste in my opinion. This is getting ridiculous and I'm exhausted with the hysteria.
Re: Testing. During a crisis, people are desperate to have faith in something - whether it's useful or not. And fear & panic interferes with some people's ability to reason. And there is serious profit in mass testing.
 
I don't know why everyone is so hell-bent on "TESTING." Someone can be tested, they are negative for the virus, and in an hour they are exposed and contract the virus. So why the big emphasis on testing? We can't test everyone, every hour so it's a waste in my opinion. This is getting ridiculous and I'm exhausted with the hysteria.
Well testing makes sense to me. First of all you want to know if you yourself are testing negative.
Then all the negatives can go out to work and associate with each other.
Many negatives make a positive.
What is the point of sending anyone out to work if they are testing positive?
 
IMO we will see a spike in new cases and deaths as we reopen and probably another spike in the fall.

We may be at work, in the barber chair, the mall, the park, etc... That doesn't mean that it's safe or that the virus is gone. We still need to follow the same basic precautions including staying home as much as possible, social distancing, wearing a mask, washing our hands, etc...

We've all been through our two-month boot camp and now it's really up to each of us to do what we can to protect ourselves and each other until a TNT treatment and vaccine is available.
I agree Aunt Bea, I'll still be cautious for awhile even if everything reopens. A couple of days ago my husband ordered a couple of propane tanks from Lowes for camping, one of ours is too old to refill anymore. Anyhoo, I went into the store (first time I've been in a store since mid-March), and I had my mask on.

They didn't have the tanks yet at the customer service counter ready for pickup, so I went to the aisle they were in and got them myself. Things were pretty good there, everything was marked, people stood where they were supposed to, keeping a safe distance. All the workers and most of the customers had on masks. The clerks were actively wiping down the counter with disinfectant wipes after each customer, plastic guards were up.

This week I plan to go with my husband to Sam's Club, Costco, Safeway and Kroger supermarkets. We'll both have masks on, and shop as safe and quickly as we can, no lollygagging. :)
 
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I've only been inside the supermarket once in a month maybe 2. I don't know. It's been a while. Last time I was there...it was weird after not being inside for so long.
 
Well testing makes sense to me. First of all you want to know if you yourself are testing negative.
Then all the negatives can go out to work and associate with each other.
Many negatives make a positive.
What is the point of sending anyone out to work if they are testing positive?
My point was that even if you test negative right now, you could possibly be exposed to the virus 10 minutes from now. I believe the estimates are that over 50% of people with the virus have no symptoms.
 
My point was that even if you test negative right now, you could possibly be exposed to the virus 10 minutes from now. I believe the estimates are that over 50% of people with the virus have no symptoms.

Don't you have to have some of the symptoms before they test you?
 


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