There Will Always Be Poor People

[Lon]

There Will Always Be Poor People

Being poor is a relative thing dependent on where you live, even within the United States. Today, in the U.S., you can fall into the ranks of the poor and still have a wide screen TV, high speed internet, cable TV, a car, and a multitude of other goodies and be classified as poor. That's a bit different than being poor in the Sudan or many other third world countries. During the late 1940's I lived as a teenager with my mother in a800 sq. ft. no bedroom apartment, no phone, no TV, ice box instead of a fridge, no car. Mom worked as a waitress and I always had a job for spending money. We never considered ourselves as being poor and neither did anyone else refer to us as being poor. There will always be people at the top of the income and wage scale and that is the way it should be in my opinion, as it provides incentive to many to improve their lot in life. Attempts to balance out or equalize everyone's finances and living conditions via INCOME REDISTRIBUTION is insane. The truly poor and needy must and will be taken care of. We will never allow any of our countrymen to starve in the streets and die.​

 

[Butterfly]

But Lon, there ARE people in this country living in abject poverty, in Appalachia, or in cities sleeping under bridges, rummaging in garbage for food. Many children go to bed hungry. Who's taking care of them? No one, that's who.

 

[AZ Jim]

But Lon, there ARE people in this country living in abject poverty, in Appalachia, or in cities sleeping under bridges, rummaging in garbage for food. Many children go to bed hungry. Who's taking care of them? No one, that's who.

Very true Butterfly, we aren't all wealthy some are very poor.

 

[Lon]

But Lon, there ARE people in this country living in abject poverty, in Appalachia, or in cities sleeping under bridges, rummaging in garbage for food. Many children go to bed hungry. Who's taking care of them? No one, that's who.

Much of which you speak is not a so much a poverty problem as it is a mental health problem, which needs to be addressed. We don't have people dying in the streets from starvation.

 

[SeaBreeze]

But Lon, there ARE people in this country living in abject poverty, in Appalachia, or in cities sleeping under bridges, rummaging in garbage for food. Many children go to bed hungry. Who's taking care of them? No one, that's who.

I agree Butterfly, there are many people in America who live in poverty due to various reasons, low income (minimum wage), lack of jobs (businesses closing down, moving overseas), medical or other emergency which depleted their funds, etc., etc. I notice everyone is always concerned about those starving in other countries, which is fine, but let's take a look sometimes into our own country, and the poor people who are struggling. http://talkpoverty.org/basics/

 

[Shalimar]

The Ayn Rand approach to life ticked me off in college, and I don't like it any better now. There are homeless children under ten living on the streets, under bridges, etc. they are disadvantaged, not mentally Ill, invisible for a variety of reasons. No one is taking care of them, it is so much easier to ignore the problem and pass the buck.. People who live privileged lives often lack understanding of the complexities of poverty, and resort to simplistic and blame-oriented theories. Living in sub-standard hovels, existing on Kraft dinner is abject poverty. It exists in both our countries, though more so in America. The world that existed,,w hen we were young is gone, the dream is in tatters, the gap between rich and poor gapes wider every day. With the middle class under siege, how long until they join the ranks of the vilified?

 

[Red]

My brother felt sorry for a street person who was begging and said he was hungry. There was a pizza joint just a bit up the street, so my brother picked him up a pizza and brought it back.
The guy said "No thanks, I don't like cheese. Oh well, guess I could pick it off, would have been better to just give me the money and I could have picked out my own"

:lofl:

 

[Shalimar]

That is a funny incident, Red, but it hardly addresses what has become a very real problem, not just in the big cities, but rural areas as well. I think a hungry child would have been exceedingly grateful for the pizza, cheese and all. I lived on the streets while still a minor,(not by choice,) went hungry and cold often, slept outside. I would have welcomed any food that was offered. For most who are indigent, that attitude remains the norm. Like everywhere else, a few negative 'street people' provide the benchmark on which we so often judge all the truly poor. The more we dehumanise the unfortunate, the less we need to empathise with their condition.

 

[Skyking]

But Lon, there ARE people in this country living in abject poverty, in Appalachia, or in cities sleeping under bridges, rummaging in garbage for food. Many children go to bed hungry. Who's taking care of them? No one, that's who.

With all respect Butterfly much of the problem you speak of is with adults and parents of children who do not understand personal responsibility. For those who need help consider that we have Unemployment Insurance, Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, Social Security Disability, Public assistance via the counties, Food Stamps, Student Loans, Free School Lunches, Free Pre school, Free emergency room treatments for those who can't afford to pay, vouchers for child care, subsidized housing ala Section 8, not to mention subsidized Obama care and even free Obama phones. Then too there are the churches, the Salvation Army, The Shriners, Kiwanis, Mason's, the missions, the soup kitchens, food banks and private charities and organizations galore. I could go on and on but you get the point. But sadly we've also created a society of entitlement and dependency that is unrivaled and has done so much harm to our people. The welfare state, having expanded beyond rational belief till it not only cares for the poor as it should but for those that will not study, learn or work. Yes some children do go to bed hungry and some mentally ill people sleep under bridges but as a society we have made provisions and outreach to help.

 

[Shalimar]

Ayn Rand is alive and well in the minds of some of the privileged few. I was not mentally ill but abandoned/disowned, as are many children, often by families who simply do not want them. I live in the so-called welfare state, even here the outreach is insufficient, please do not ask me to believe the situation is better among my American neighbours.

 

[imp]

Our experiences with the "homeless" were numerous. Having moved to Phoenix in 1979, we noted the grounds around the Capitol Buildings were always well-occupied by obviously forlorn folks. Some had belongings in shopping carts, looked destitute, all right. We learned they were present in winter, primarily, but migrated, many of them, to cooler summer climes, like Denver.

Know what else we noted? Almost all had "smokes". I once asked a guy if he is given some money, what does he truthfully buy first? Reply: cigarettes. Addiction was obviously a strong part of the "game". After all, (facetious), what else had he to live for?

I took issue with my wife's mother's contention that "Homeless are stuck in circumstances through no fault of their own." I asked myself, why was I not homeless, or any other member of my family, or friends, or aquaintances, homeless? Just whose fault was it then, that all these folks were homeless? imp

 

[Shalimar]

Perhaps, Imp, you and the people you knew, had a more fortunate set of circumstances. It is not always easy to empathise with others when we have no personal knowledge of their experiences.

 

[Lon]

Income Redistribution is not the answer to poverty, street people, picking through garbage cans, unemployment, children going to bed hungry, et. etc. The answer is a better educated citizenry so that their knowledge is in demand for employment. A better educated citizenry will bring about better parenting which in itself would solve many problems. It can't be done over night but it can be done.

 

[Warrigal]

Homelessness and poverty does not automatically mean that you have to live on the street. My maiden aunt was on the brink of homelessness in that she had to depend on the charity of her married sisters for a roof over her head once her parents were both dead. She never went hungry because she had a staunch family to rely on but not everyone is so fortunate. Her income was never enough to allow her to live independently as she had been the housekeeper daughter who cared for the parents in their declining years. They were always renters so there was no home to inherit.

 

[Cookie]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC121964/

The above article is about the spending patterns of panhandlers (most of which are homeless). John Stackhouse, a professor and at one time a journalist for the Globe and Mail, lived on the streets with the homeless for a period of time and estimated that some actually made up to $200 a day, but spent most of it on their addictions and very little on food.

We have a large homeless population here and although many resources are available to them, unfortunately they are not always interested in using them.

 

[chic]

Financial poverty is unacceptable. For anyone, anywhere, any age or race.

 

[Butterfly]

The Ayn Rand approach to life ticked me off in college, and I don't like it any better now. There are homeless children under ten living on the streets, under bridges, etc. they are disadvantaged, not mentally Ill, invisible for a variety of reasons. No one is taking care of them, it is so much easier to ignore the problem and pass the buck.. People who live privileged lives often lack understanding of the complexities of poverty, and resort to simplistic and blame-oriented theories. Living in sub-standard hovels, existing on Kraft dinner is abject poverty. It exists in both our countries, though more so in America. The world that existed,,w hen we were young is gone, the dream is in tatters, the gap between rich and poor gapes wider every day. With the middle class under siege, how long until they join the ranks of the vilified?

I agree! It is far too easy to just say they are poor because they want to be, or are that they could work their way out of it if they tried. To say so is the "Let 'em eat cake" approach. It ain't always so.

 

[Ralphy1]

There can be many reasons for being poor and we would do well not to judge all of them by the behavior of a few...

 

[Shalimar]

Thank you Ralphy, you put this more succinctly than I was able to do.

 

[Skyking]

Poverty exists and it always will but as I factually noted there is an extremely huge social net in America to help, after that it becomes a matter of personal choice as to how we live. At some point we as a society have had to make judgments as to how best to aid our less fortunate citizens. If that's judging then so be it, because it must be done. Without taking a stand (making a judgment) for what is right and wrong in our society our thinking becomes just so much pointless mush. And IMO a lot of what I've been reading lately is just that.

 

[Jackie22]

The inequality in this country has grown at an alarming rate. The ultra rich have achieved their wealth mostly with the help of more and more breaks from Washington, we all know which party gives the breaks, pushing the trickle down theory.

To me it is very sad that so many think the poor should just 'pull yourself up by the bootstraps'...or that the ultra rich have no obligations to help the poor and homeless. The unbalance of wealth is the culprit here.

 

[QuickSilver]

There can be many reasons for being poor and we would do well not to judge all of them by the behavior of a few...

Absolutely agree!.... Yet unfortunately that goes on constantly. Everyone seems to know someone who knows someone who saw someone buying Fillet mignon or lobster with food stamps. Or has it on good sources that welfare is handed out like candy, and every undocumented worker is living high off the hog on our dime. But this can all be chalked up to the intense propaganda of the political right wing. Keep the average American distrustful and judgmental while the people that are REALLY robbing us blind get off scot free. Tax breaks for the wealthy and corporate subsidies are the REAL welfare queens.

 

[QuickSilver]

Much of which you speak is not a so much a poverty problem as it is a mental health problem, which needs to be addressed. We don't have people dying in the streets from starvation.

Part of that is very true Lon.. However, in searching for cuts to fund tax breaks for the wealthy and corporate tax incentives, many states have closed the much needed mental health facilities, sending very ill people out into the streets to fend for themselves. Where were all these people to go? Most had be hospitalized for so long they no longer have family.. and those that do, find their families unable to care for them.. SO... what would be your suggestion?

 

[QuickSilver]

My brother felt sorry for a street person who was begging and said he was hungry. There was a pizza joint just a bit up the street, so my brother picked him up a pizza and brought it back.
The guy said "No thanks, I don't like cheese. Oh well, guess I could pick it off, would have been better to just give me the money and I could have picked out my own"

:lofl:

This is what I mean... People use examples like this to generalize the poor to be ungrateful and undeserving and therefore ease one's own conscience for wanting to cut programs and safety nets.

 

[Skyking]

The inequality in this country has grown at an alarming rate. The ultra rich have achieved their wealth mostly with the help of more and more breaks from Washington, we all know which party gives the breaks, pushing the trickle down theory.

To me it is very sad that so many think the poor should just 'pull yourself up by the bootstraps'...or that the ultra rich have no obligations to help the poor and homeless. The unbalance of wealth is the culprit here.

Who do you think funds most of these programs designed to help...who? For those who need help consider that we have Unemployment Insurance, Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, Social Security Disability, Public assistance via the counties, Food Stamps, Student Loans, Free School Lunches, Free Pre school, Free emergency room treatments for those who can't afford to pay, vouchers for child care, subsidized housing ala Section 8, not to mention subsidized Obama care and even free Obama phones. Then too there are the churches, the Salvation Army, The Shriners, Kiwanis, Mason's, the missions, the soup kitchens, food banks and private charities, small business loans and organizations galore.

And there are hundreds perhaps thousands more but no matter the facts some will not accept personal responsibility but rather want to blame it on someone else.