Two girls, 12 and 13 years old, are suspected of killing a 12-year-old girl. What is wrong with our society?

Holly, it's not the people, but the government that cares a sh.t about the lives of the native(!) German people. In Köln on December 31, 2015 hundreds of women were molested by asylants from the Middle East. This was the start. Since then every day several women get raped and men, women and children are in danger to become a victim of - I don't hesitate to write it - asylants from the Middle East. It's the truth, and I don't care anymore if somebody calls me Na.i or xenophob or raci.t. Some months ago two young men at Oggersheim near the river Rhine (the former chancellor Helmut Kohl lived there) were killed by a refugee. One of the victims got cut off his hand and thrown into a garden nearby. The father of one arrived and could only watch his son dying. No damn politician from the government came but the people who arranged a silent protest were called raci.ts. I am so tired of this government. I detest our politicians!
George I feel your anger and outrage , and because we're not permitted to discuss Politics here, I can't reply in the way I'd like to.. but suffice to say a lot of the crime that's happening here in the last few years has been by the same people you're referencing, it's very troubling..
 

Holly, it's not the people, but the government that cares a sh.t about the lives of the native(!) German people. In Köln on December 31, 2015 hundreds of women were molested by asylants from the Middle East. This was the start. Since then every day several women get raped and men, women and children are in danger to become a victim of - I don't hesitate to write it - asylants from the Middle East. It's the truth, and I don't care anymore if somebody calls me Na.i or xenophob or raci.t. Some months ago two young men at Oggersheim near the river Rhine (the former chancellor Helmut Kohl lived there) were killed by a refugee. One of the victims got cut off his hand and thrown into a garden nearby. The father of one arrived and could only watch his son dying. No damn politician from the government came but the people who arranged a silent protest were called raci.ts. I am so tired of this government. I detest our politicians!
Thank you for being brave enough to tell the truth! “Tell the truth and shame the devil.” (Don’t know who originally said this, but I like it)
 
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I know my thoughts have been shared in the past....but so much has to do with what kids experience in their real lives. I am guessing they had yet to experience the death of a friend or loved one prior. Do not undertand the reality or permanence of death, and how it affects the living.
Think about it....they play video games with death. They watch TV shows where people die...or are killed only to see the actor come back next week in another TV show. To a childs mind....it is not real
I'm not an expert on this subject, and what you stated may well be true. However, we (us seniors) grew up with that sort of TV violence as well but we all (my friends, family, etc.) knew it was acting and special effects. As a quick example, many of us, myself included, watched the 3 Stooges but we all knew that you could not whack someone on the head with a crowbar or a 2x4 in real life. We knew it was slapstick. Granted, things are far more realistic today but nonetheless, to say that children are learning this from the media seems weak to me. Perhaps it has more to do with real-life violence. It's how various governments resolve issues, they go to war. It's how the bullied take vengeance on their tormentors. Unfortunately, it just seems that humans cannot tolerate differences among themselves, be it religion, skin color, ideology, or even which sports team one supports in some cases. Violence always seems to be the go-to way to resolve things.
 

I'm not an expert on this subject, and what you stated may well be true. However, we (us seniors) grew up with that sort of TV violence as well but we all (my friends, family, etc.) knew it was acting and special effects. As a quick example, many of us, myself included, watched the 3 Stooges but we all knew that you could not whack someone on the head with a crowbar or a 2x4 in real life. We knew it was slapstick. Granted, things are far more realistic today but nonetheless, to say that children are learning this from the media seems weak to me. Perhaps it has more to do with real-life violence. It's how various governments resolve issues, they go to war. It's how the bullied take vengeance on their tormentors. Unfortunately, it just seems that humans cannot tolerate differences among themselves, be it religion, skin color, ideology, or even which sports team one supports in some cases. Violence always seems to be the go-to way to resolve things.
...and I can only speak for the UK.. but.. the sentencing for most crimes have become a joke ..there's barely any fear on behalf of a criminal not to commit crime. Even those who do get long sentences continue running their empire outside from inside prison.. so where's the fear for them..there's none..
 
...and I can only speak for the UK.. but.. the sentencing for most crimes have become a joke ..there's barely any fear on behalf of a criminal not to commit crime. Even those who do get long sentences continue running their empire outside from inside prison.. so where's the fear for them..there's none..
There are a lot of discussions here in the states concerning weak or lack of prison sentencing. However, the U.S. has the highest incarceration rate in the world. It's not helping at all here. My thought is that the root cause of the problem is the deteriorating quality of life in the world. People that have a good job, health care, a pension, a living wage, and affordable housing are not quite as prone to committing crimes or turning to illegal drug use as those that have nothing left to lose. I suspect we are treating the symptom instead of the root cause of the problem.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/incarceration-rates-by-country
 
There are a lot of discussions here in the states concerning weak or lack of prison sentencing. However, the U.S. has the highest incarceration rate in the world. It's not helping at all here. My thought is that the root cause of the problem is the deteriorating quality of life in the world. People that have a good job, health care, a pension, a living wage, and affordable housing are not quite as prone to committing crimes or turning to illegal drug use as those that have nothing left to lose. I suspect we are treating the symptom instead of the root cause of the problem.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/incarceration-rates-by-country
This could be quite possible. But I don't know an answer how to fix the problem. I think nobody does.
 
Daily Mail Online has given new information on the case.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...lt-theyd-picking-her.html?ico=related-replace
It's interesting that you get much more information in foreign newspapers than in German newspapers. But I have read that the parents of both girls who stabbed her classmate more than 30 times have left the village with unknown destination. Since both girls are too young for criminal liability I'd suppose that they stay with their parents at the new homes.
In the US they'd likely be kept separated from their parents. Child Protective Services would act under the assumption that the parents are a bad influence...until proved otherwise, which can take years.
 
I'm repeating myself, but I strongly suspect processed food effects brain function. That said, I don't know how much processed food is available in Germany. @George1959 - do you know?
Murrmurr, processed food and microwave (which I also don't like) play an enormous role in German cooking. I know that processed food isn't healthy but does it effect brain function to such an extent?
 
Murrmurr, processed food and microwave (which I also don't like) play an enormous role in German cooking. I know that processed food isn't healthy but does it effect brain function to such an extent?
I wish more studies would be done. A few showed that food additives do indeed effect impulsiveness and cause an overproduction of adrenaline. Those are fairly old studies, though, and I suspect our gov't or the FDA, which gets funding from the food industry (and Big Pharma), stopped approving grants for this type of study.

Studies of any kind have become ridiculously expensive, btw, and universities and labs have to "play ball" to get the funding.
 
@George1959, my husband still has family in Germany. We worry about them with what is going on. We would like to go back to see them, but are concerned about travel with what is going on in the world.

Our family friend was stranded in Germany after 9-11 with 6 dogs he was importing back to the states. It took his wife almost 2 weeks to get a flight out for him & the dogs together. He was able to stay with friends there, but it was still hard.

We would be OK if we were with family, but we like to visit other areas & wonder what we would do if the s**t hit the fan.

I used to watch a man on YouTube called the Germantor who had great videos that I enjoyed. His last post was 4 years ago & he had talked about what happened in Köln. He also said such events either briefly get mentioned or not at all.

I agree with you that it is not the German people, but the ones in charge.
 
I wish more studies would be done. A few showed that food additives do indeed effect impulsiveness and cause an overproduction of adrenaline. Those are fairly old studies, though, and I suspect our gov't or the FDA, which gets funding from the food industry (and Big Pharma), stopped approving grants for this type of study.

Studies of any kind have become ridiculously expensive, btw, and universities and labs have to "play ball" to get the funding.
I believe you are onto something with the food.

I worked with a lady whose son, around 12 yo at the time, was on meds for ADD. She finally took him to a doctor that figured out he was allergic to red food dye which is in a lot of foods. All of the food in the house that had that was tossed out. He watched what he ate & was taken off the meds.

Once day he ate something & told his Mom he didn't feel well. They looked at the ingredients & found the red dye was in it. The kid recognized when he ate something with dyes & still avoids it to this day (now in his late 20's).
 
Humans have been killing each other since they climbed out of the trees. Sure it's shocking, but the stresses of daily living can cause some to lose self control and snap. Those who have it easy are less prone to but the rest, no.
 
I don't think those who have less are more prone to do something. You have those who have more that can be just as bad.

What about siblings from the same family who have had the same life experiences growing up, but one takes the good road & the other bad. How can that be explained?

You also have those who see others not held accountable for crimes when they're caught, so they figure they can do what they want too & suffer no punishment.

The people who need help with their mental health problems who are a danger to themselves & others need to have the proper treatment & a place to live. They shouldn't be out on the street. Not fair to them or the public.

What I don't understand is why some people continue to make excuses for wrong doers & think it's OK to give them a slap on the wrist. When they're released, they're right back at it & do worse the next time. At some point, a hard line needs to be taken & those who do wrong need to answer for what they've done with an appropriate punishment for their crime(s).
 
@George1959 this in todays' papers is an example of what I was talking about on this thread ...

An Iranian rapist has won the right to stay in the UK after a judge decided he would face persecution in his native country, a report states.

Despite lying about being a former employee of MI5, his appeal against deportation was successful.

The immigration tribunal was told that the man first entered Britain in 1992 as a student, The Sun reports.

The newspaper adds that the man, referred to as XX, raped a female lodger living in the same house in London in 2000.

He was convicted a year later and jailed for seven years.

Immigration papers state he has never given 'any indication' of showing insight into the impact on his victim and he has not participated in any rehabilitation course.

After the conclusion of his jail term, authorities wanted to deport the man in 2005 but he launched a successful interim appeal.

Despite no documentary evidence, the man has clung to a claim that he was previously recruited by UK secret services.

The man insisted MI5 headhunted him as he used to mix in social circles with links to the Iranian Embassy in London.

The security services have refused to shed light on the claim one way or another.

He also shared his fears of receiving the death penalty for his rape conviction if he returns to Iran.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...n-allowed-stay-Britain-crime-judge-rules.html


proof if it was ever needed that criminals know they can come here.. commit crimes, and face barely any punishment... yet we're now protecting them from the right punishment in their own country... You couldn't make it up..:mad:
 
I have said for the longest time that I believe the additives in our food is causing so many problems in the young...from ADHD and autism.. to hyperactivity, anger and rage...
My brother and I are both ADHD and have been from the time we were small children - well before food additives. One of my sons is ADD, the other ADHD. My brother had no children.

My granddaughter (via my daughter) is extremely sensitive to red food dye #40 - a not uncommon situation apparently, though the FDA hasn't seen fit to ban it. It makes her extremely agitated and borderline rageful. It's a nightmare for all, including herself, when she accidentally ingests it. Nothing can be done other than waiting it out for several hours.

So while these conditions exist in people's DNA, I completely agree that additives, hormones, and other chemicals that don't belong in our food, water, and air, make behavioral issues much worse and more prevalent.
 
@George1959 this in todays' papers is an example of what I was talking about on this thread ...

An Iranian rapist has won the right to stay in the UK after a judge decided he would face persecution in his native country, a report states.

Despite lying about being a former employee of MI5, his appeal against deportation was successful.

The immigration tribunal was told that the man first entered Britain in 1992 as a student, The Sun reports.

The newspaper adds that the man, referred to as XX, raped a female lodger living in the same house in London in 2000.

He was convicted a year later and jailed for seven years.

Immigration papers state he has never given 'any indication' of showing insight into the impact on his victim and he has not participated in any rehabilitation course.

After the conclusion of his jail term, authorities wanted to deport the man in 2005 but he launched a successful interim appeal.

Despite no documentary evidence, the man has clung to a claim that he was previously recruited by UK secret services.

The man insisted MI5 headhunted him as he used to mix in social circles with links to the Iranian Embassy in London.

The security services have refused to shed light on the claim one way or another.

He also shared his fears of receiving the death penalty for his rape conviction if he returns to Iran.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...n-allowed-stay-Britain-crime-judge-rules.html


proof if it was ever needed that criminals know they can come here.. commit crimes, and face barely any punishment... yet we're now protecting them from the right punishment in their own country... You couldn't make it up..:mad:
Thank you Holly. Similar cases do happen all the time in Germany. Most of our people are not against people from foreign countries if they work here and are integrated into society but they don't like criminals independent of their nationality or skin color.
 
Thank you Holly. Similar cases do happen all the time in Germany. Most of our people are not against people from foreign countries if they work here and are integrated into society but they don't like criminals independent of their nationality or skin color.
Exactly the same here..but we're being inundated with criminals, and illegal immigrants most of are one and the same.. and they're not being evicted from the country when they commit a crime, it's just appalling .

This country is just going to the dogs..
 
The story of the two girls who killed their classmate is much more horrible:

"The day after the funeral of 12-year-old Luise from Freudenberg in the Siegerland brought new shocking news to light about the crime. As FOCUS online learned from well-informed circles, the 13 and 12-year-old girls suspected of the crime are said to have planned the murder of their classmate in advance.
As FOCUS online learned, one of the two confessed perpetrators had informed herself about the question of criminal responsibility on the Internet before the fatal knife attack. Corresponding documents were found by the death investigators during a search of Luise's 12-year-old classmate. According to the criminal code, criminals under the age of 14 cannot be prosecuted for their actions. The explosive find suggests that the girls wanted to make sure they would get off scot-free before committing the murder."

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

This is the link to the German magazine 'Focus':
https://www.focus.de/panorama/welt/...erial-zu-strafunmuendigkeit_id_189128180.html
 
There are a lot of discussions here in the states concerning weak or lack of prison sentencing. However, the U.S. has the highest incarceration rate in the world. It's not helping at all here. My thought is that the root cause of the problem is the deteriorating quality of life in the world. People that have a good job, health care, a pension, a living wage, and affordable housing are not quite as prone to committing crimes or turning to illegal drug use as those that have nothing left to lose. I suspect we are treating the symptom instead of the root cause of the problem.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/incarceration-rates-by-country
I agree with you @Rich. Studies seem to indicate that things like capital punishment and long sentences don't deter crime. The type of person who commits murder usually has very low impulse control and a poor sense of consequences. They simply can't picture the future very well and don't think they will be caught so ten years or life doesn't matter much to them.

Twelve year old girls murdering their friends is very rare, rare enough that it makes international news. It's the thousands of homicides by adults every year that we need to worry about and I agree with Rich that it's a symptom of our crumbling society not anything that stronger sentencing will deter. Most of these everyday, commonplace murders are committed by young men who were born of unmarried mothers, grew up without the guidance of fathers, joined gangs and got into drugs.

In New Zealand in 1954, two teenage girls, Pauline Parker and Juliet Hulme killed Parker's mother because she wasn't allowing them to be together anymore. I think these cases have more to do with the intense relationships girls going through puberty have with each other combined with immature thinking about reality. After doing their short time in prison both girls grew up to be normal, productive members of society. Hulme writes novels under the name Anne Perry.
 
I know my thoughts have been shared in the past....but so much has to do with what kids experience in their real lives. I am guessing they had yet to experience the death of a friend or loved one prior. Do not undertand the reality or permanence of death, and how it affects the living.
Think about it....they play video games with death. They watch TV shows where people die...or are killed only to see the actor come back next week in another TV show. To a childs mind....it is not real
I was asked once about that, and my answer was the same as yours.
 
I agree with you @Rich. Studies seem to indicate that things like capital punishment and long sentences don't deter crime. The type of person who commits murder usually has very low impulse control and a poor sense of consequences. They simply can't picture the future very well and don't think they will be caught so ten years or life doesn't matter much to them.
What capital punishment? It sounds like it needs to be seriously looked at again.

If others see that criminals convicted of murder, rape & other capital crimes & are not given unlimited appeals (which will take decades to exhaust) & are actually put to death, it might get through to them it will happen to them too.

Sadly, these serious offenses are being reduced to lesser charges if not flat out dropped. IF they are convicted, given very little jail time & then released. That is, if their lock up time while awaiting trial is not counted as "time served" & flat out released after trial.
 
I was asked once about that, and my answer was the same as yours.
More than 20 years ago I knew a woman with a 5 year old son. He couldn't read at that time but he could very good kill people while playing a game on PC. All said.
 


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