US accuses Israel of spying on Iran nuclear talks

BobF said:
As you folks seem to think, I see nothing wrong with what Israel said about how they got the information. If you two just hate the Republicans so badly, that is your problem, not mine. The current government has really gotten the US into some very bad situations. Lucky we only have another year and a half with what we have. Then maybe we will have a decent Democrat or Republican government to replace this current way far far far left government we have today.

Either party and what we need is a President that will listen to the Congress and allow the people to decide how the government should run.
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Except we already DID.... we elected President Obama TWICE by a large majority... Why is that always ignored by Republicans.. As for me hating Republicans... If I do, then you certainly are a prime example of why.. So totally eaten up with Obama Derangement Syndrome you are irrational, as most in Congress are.
 

Obama's wins were not that big as you claim them to be. And his second was less than his first, as he was losing the Congress more and more to the Republicans. If he acted like a President should be acting he would be listening to the Congress more and less of his own mistaken ways be getting imposed. It will be nice to once again have a real Democrat back in the Presidents seat who will allow the Congress to have a say about how this country should be run. We do not have that now and have not had that for over 6 years now. Congress is where the government is supposed to be run from, not the Presidents ideas only without using the Congress.
 
QuickSilver said:
Thanks.... for proving my point. lol!!
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I never proved that Obama has led us well at all. We are living in a growing disaster by his own hand. We need s real Democrat or Republican to try to pull this country back to the people where it should be. No more of these dictator types of governments for the US.
 
NO bob... For proving the point that you have Obama Derangement Syndrome.... and have become blinded by irrational hatred.. The one note tone of ALL your posts proves that you are incapable of discussing any political situation without injecting this pathology.
 
Talk about someone not thinking, best talk about the one in the mirror you see. Obama has failed to lead this country by the Constitution ways, therefore he is wrong. Even many Democrats have seen this problem and will go against Obama when they can. Big problem with Obama is that he does not take things to the Congress, he does his thing through his self arranged groups and committees he has had set up. The big problem for the US is trying to get rid of his personal style of government and get back to allowing the Congress to make the working solutions as they should. That can happen with a real Democrat party or Republican party helping to lead this country. Further on would be if most of the people would vote independent and no longer allow Republican or Democrat party lead this country. As it was originally planned to be run. Representatives from districts and states. No more of these political groups of minority membership, 30% or less for both the Democrats or Republicans, leading this country as is being done in recent years. You may think minority leadership is OK. But a lot of the people in the US do not. It should go back to the way this country was designed.
 
blah blah blah Obama blah blah blah constitution blah blah Lefties blah blah Obama blah blah blah. Always the same song with you.

By the way... Minority leadership was just okie dokie when Republicans were in the minority... right?
 
QuickSilver said:
blah blah blah Obama blah blah blah constitution blah blah Lefties blah blah Obama blah blah blah. Always the same song with you.

By the way... Minority leadership was just okie dokie when Republicans were in the minority... right?
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Always the same song with me, likely because it is so true.

Republicans only had minority leadership by name. As long as the Democrats held the Senate, nothing got done at all.

For you, it is always the same song as well. You are stuck outside the Constitution and unwilling to re enter the Constitution for continuing our government the way it was designed to be run, by the Congress.
 
QuickSilver said:
As apparently has every other nation... It is very easy to want to equate Nations as being people.. They are not.. A nation exists for the benefit and welfare of itself.. It is not fair to say that the USA is somehow morally deficient in this respect when it goes on all over the world.
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Getting caught up in semantics doesn't change the fact that a country that calls another country 'friend' disrespected them and spied on that country's leaders personal phone (and whatever else they got caught doing in this regard). And believe me, I'm not pointing only at the USA in this regard. Have you ever heard of the Five Eyes Intelligence Community? It is a coalition of five countries, Britain, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the USA who have an agreement to share any information that they get via 'spying'. So these guys are working together, they are 'friends' and yet it has been shown that this group doesn't answer to the known laws of it's own countries and that they are all spying on one anthers citizens and sharing that info in order to get around any and all domestic regulations on domestic spying. Canada is just as guilty, as is !

In the case I noted previously, the USA was found to have been spying on the other participants in the discussion on a trade deal so my point is, that they really have no right to bitch and complain because they are not innocent themselves. And take note, I said 'they' as in the Administration, not you as in it's you personally who are to blame.....and I brought up without waiting for you to bring it up that Canada is equally culpable of bad acts in this regard. I've said it before, I'll say it again, governments are corrupt and they are using all of us little peons to play games of power and wealth.
 
Debby said:
Getting caught up in semantics doesn't change the fact that a country that calls another country 'friend' disrespected them and spied on that country's leaders personal phone (and whatever else they got caught doing in this regard). And believe me, I'm not pointing only at the USA in this regard. Have you ever heard of the Five Eyes Intelligence Community? It is a coalition of five countries, Britain, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the USA who have an agreement to share any information that they get via 'spying'. So these guys are working together, they are 'friends' and yet it has been shown that this group doesn't answer to the known laws of it's own countries and that they are all spying on one anthers citizens and sharing that info in order to get around any and all domestic regulations on domestic spying. Canada is just as guilty, as is !

In the case I noted previously, the USA was found to have been spying on the other participants in the discussion on a trade deal so my point is, that they really have no right to bitch and complain because they are not innocent themselves. And take note, I said 'they' as in the Administration, not you as in it's you personally who are to blame.....and I brought up without waiting for you to bring it up that Canada is equally culpable of bad acts in this regard. I've said it before, I'll say it again, governments are corrupt and they are using all of us little peons to play games of power and wealth.
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So your point? You are SOOOO caught up in this USA is a big bad ole nasty meanie mantra.. .. that you again miss the point I was trying to make. You and Bob need to get your "one note" posts in harmony... that at least might make for pleasant listening.
 
Well, in a way I agree with our Canadian friend. Until the US gets past this very far left government we have now, we are not a friendly nation that we were before. Obama has let the US down in many ways and has spent us into a long term poverty. We had helped some Arab folks along toward real freedom and Obama pulled our influence away. Now they all are living in fear of a very terrible type of government. One that demands and if not followed, off with your head. Leadership by fear. Not a good government for anyone, Arab or otherwise.

Less than two years to go and then hopefully we will have a good government that will operate as the Constitution say our government should run.
 
The Obama team’s best argument for doing this deal with Iran is that, in time, it could be “transformational.” That is, the ending of sanctions could open Iran to the world and bring in enough fresh air — Iran has been deliberately isolated since 1979 by its ayatollahs and Revolutionary Guard Corps — to gradually move Iran from being a revolutionary state to a normal one, and one less inclined to threaten Israel. If one assumes that Iran already has the know-how and tools to build a nuclear weapon, changing the character of its regime is the only way it becomes less threatening.
 
Sorry Bob, you and I are on different pages. The past 25 years has seen the US embark on numerous offensives in countries around the world. There have been Democratic and Republican governments by turn in those 25 years. Bush's bunch insisted that Iraq was going to launch WMD any day and look how that turned out. Somebody shared a graphic that showed up on my FB timeline and while I can't seem to figure out how to link it, here's the text:

OMG, Saddam Hussein killed 50,000 Iraqi's. We must go in there and stop him. (attributed to George Bush whose photo appears there)

So we went in there and killed 200,000 Iraqi's
5,000 dead Americans
1,000,000 injured Americans
Now we owe $6 trill and Cheney made $39 trill.
ISIS wants to kill us
GOP: It's all Obama's fault
GOP: Let's do it all again.
 
Many of those trips to war were at the call of the UN to help others gain safety and freedom. Not at all sure about your numbers you quoted, some seem OK and others are way out of line for Iraq operations. Especially those numbers of Iraqi killed. Those killed were not because of the UN forces in there at all. The Iraqi folks were split between the Sunni and Shiite types busy killing each other. Not because of any US, or English, or other nations sharing the job of keeping the people safe and helping them to get food, medical, housing, in spite of the often created war times from themselves against themselves.

None of us should have left when we did if we wanted peace to evenutually take hold down there. Look what the governments did for Europe after WWII. We kept plenty of troops in place and helped hold the peace until the new governments had time to take hold and maintain themselves. Peace in Europe has held for many more years than any time prior. Wars in Europe for centuries, one after another, till after WWII. Peace held as the countries like US, England, and other countries held troops in Europe and especially in Berlin area where Russia had threatened to take over. Our combined military's held the line and slowly peace kind of soaked in to the mind set. That is what should have happened to the Iraq situation. Not just hit and run, the old way of pretending to win but losing in the long term.

We still keep troops in Korea to help hold the truce line. We kept troops in Japan for many years after WWII. Peace is hard to win and ending hostilities is not peace itself. Peace only comes after years of being occupied and the ideas of peace can be taught to those who have traditionally carried hate for each other. A spell of peace helps people to learn they can live together.
 


Here is a list* of the countries bombed by the United States since the end of the Second World War: http://www.maurer.ca/USBombing.html
Afghanistan 1998, 2001-
Bosnia 1994, 1995
Cambodia 1969-70
China 1945-46
Congo 1964
Cuba 1959-1961
El Salvador 1980s
Korea 1950-53
Guatemala 1954, 1960, 1967-69
Indonesia 1958		Laos 1964-73
Grenada 1983
Iraq 1991-2000s
Iran 1987
Korea 1950-53
Kuwait 1991
Lebanon 1983, 1984
Libya 1986, 2011
Nicaragua 1980s
Pakistan 2003, 2006-		Palestine 2010
Panama 1989
Peru 1965
Somalia 1993, 2007-08, 2010-
Sudan 1998
Syria 2014
Vietnam 1961-73
Yemen 2002, 2009-
Yugoslavia 1999
Note that these countries represent roughly one-third of the people on earth.


And here we have the complete list of which parties were in power at the time: http://uspolitics.about.com/od/usgovernment/l/bl_party_division_2.htm



Updated 5 January 2009
YearCongressPresidentSenate (100)House (435)
2009111thDD - 55***D - 256
2007110thRD - 51**D - 233
2005109thRR - 55R - 232
2003108thRR - 51R - 229
2001107thRD*R - 221
1999106thDR - 55R - 223
1997105thDR - 55R - 228
1995104thDR - 52R - 230
1993103rdDD - 57D - 258
1991102ndRD - 56D - 267
1989101stRD - 55D - 260
1987100thRD - 55D - 258
198599thRR - 53D - 253
198398thRR - 54D - 269
198197thRR - 53D - 242
197996thDD - 58D - 277
197795thDD - 61D - 292
197594thRD - 60D -291
197393rdRD - 56D - 242
197192ndRD - 54D - 255
196991stRD - 57D - 243
196790thDD - 64D - 247
196589thDD - 68D - 295
196388thDD - 66D - 259
196187thDD - 64D - 263
195986thRD - 65D -283
195785thRD - 49D - 232
195584thRD - 48D - 232
195383rdRR - 48D - 221
195182ndDD - 49D - 235
194981stDD - 54D - 263
194780thDR - 51R - 246
194579thDD - 57D - 242


Yellow years mark Presidential inauguration.



Because I'm babysitting at my daughter's house and I have nothing else to do while the kids are playing a video game, I went through the list and checked which 'party' was in the oval office at the time and here's how it looks:




Afgh. 1998, 2001 D, R
Bosnia 1994, 1995 D
Cambodia 1969-70 R
China 1945-46 D
Congo 1964 D
Cuba 1959-1961 R
El Salvador 1980’s R
Korea 1950-53 D/R
Guatemala 1954,60, 1967-69 R/D/D/R
Indonesia 1958 R
Laos 1964-73 D/R
Grenada 1983 R
Iraq 1991-2000’s R/D/R
Iran 1987 R
Korea 1950-53 D/R
Kuwait 1991 R
Lebanon 1983-84 R
Libya 1986, 2001,2009 R/R/D
Nicaragua 1980 D/R
Pakistan 2003, 2006… R/R/D
Panama 1989 R
Peru 1965 D
Somalia 1993, 2007-08,2010 D/R/D
Sudan 1998 D
Syria 2014 D
Vietnam 1961-73 D/R
Yemen 2002,2009- R/D
Yugoslavia 1999 D

So it looks like both parties have been busy not being friendly. Years since WW2 that the US has been bombing somewhere: 1945,46,50,51,52,53,54,55,56,57,58,59,60,61,64,65,66,67,68,69,70,71,72,73,80-89,90-2009, etc.
 
Your words are a bit exaggerated to say the least. No way has the US bombed all those countries as you said.

Nor have you pointed out which efforts were solely US activated. How many were related to joint efforts or UN efforts. How many of those actions were actually wars and not just police actions or defensive actions. You are really twisted and incomplete with this post.
 
BobF said:
Many of those trips to war were at the call of the UN to help others gain safety and freedom. Not at all sure about your numbers you quoted, some seem OK and others are way out of line for Iraq operations. Especially those numbers of Iraqi killed. Those killed were not because of the UN forces in there at all. The Iraqi folks were split between the Sunni and Shiite types busy killing each other. Not because of any US, or English, or other nations sharing the job of keeping the people safe and helping them to get food, medical, housing, in spite of the often created war times from themselves against themselves.

None of us should have left when we did if we wanted peace to evenutually take hold down there. Look what the governments did for Europe after WWII. We kept plenty of troops in place and helped hold the peace until the new governments had time to take hold and maintain themselves. Peace in Europe has held for many more years than any time prior. Wars in Europe for centuries, one after another, till after WWII. Peace held as the countries like US, England, and other countries held troops in Europe and especially in Berlin area where Russia had threatened to take over. Our combined military's held the line and slowly peace kind of soaked in to the mind set. That is what should have happened to the Iraq situation. Not just hit and run, the old way of pretending to win but losing in the long term.

We still keep troops in Korea to help hold the truce line. We kept troops in Japan for many years after WWII. Peace is hard to win and ending hostilities is not peace itself. Peace only comes after years of being occupied and the ideas of peace can be taught to those who have traditionally carried hate for each other. A spell of peace helps people to learn they can live together.
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http://www.informationclearinghouse.info

That site also gives 'numbers' with reference to Iraq. And sure, there might be a few too many or maybe not even all that should be there, but when all is said and done, they're dead or injured and it's neither here nor there whether they were Sunni or Shiite. The point is that if the US wasn't there, had stayed home, this discussion wouldn't even be going on.

And seriously, if you still think this was all about 'spreading democracy' then you have swallowed the Kool-ade. If Saddam Hussein hadn't been trying to bypass the dollar and sell his oil, accepting euros instead, I seriously doubt if America would have fomented the lie of WMD. Same with Gaddafi. If he hadn't been planning on selling his oil and bypassing the American dollar and accepting gold instead, America wouldn't have bothered. This is strictly about control and power of position. Hit and run isn't exactly what I would call ten years in Iraq.

America brought down the Soviet Union via oil price manipulation, was happy to 'aid' Russia when they were facing food lines and empty shelves but as Russia became stronger and began to stand on their own two feet and opt for their own sovereignty, the animosity towards that nation resurfaced and has now bubbled over again. And in part the fact that Russia is moving away from the use of the American dollar has only added fuel to the fire. If Russia had bowed to their 'saviour', none of this would be going on, NATO would be surrounding them and America would be continuing to rake in the power and finances that comes from being the holder of the reserve currency. By means of that status and no gold standard, America can print money ad nauseum and to the detriment of the finances of your country.

According to http://www.tradingeconomics.com/russia/government-debt-to-gdp, Russia's debt to GDP in 2014 was 13.41.
According to http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-states/government-debt-to-gdp America's debt to GDP in 2014 was 101.53

Russia has maintained a gold standard despite everything, they bought 55 tonnes of gold last year and they are either beginning to or planning to sell their oil for either rubbles or yuan. Their overall financial picture is better than America's despite the USA having the worlds reserve currency. If America were to loose that status, it would seriously impinge on your ability to borrow (budget crisis anyone?), your ability to continue printing money, to maintain your standard of living, support an enormous military......

Interesting note here, came across this article: http://rt.com/business/243129-russian-economy-markets-recovery/
that is saying the Russia is doing not so bad right now economically and it has a short commentary by your own economist Dr. Paul Craig Roberts.
 
BobF said:
Your words are a bit exaggerated to say the least. No way has the US bombed all those countries as you said.

Nor have you pointed out which efforts were solely US activated. How many were related to joint efforts or UN efforts. How many of those actions were actually wars and not just police actions or defensive actions. You are really twisted and incomplete with this post.
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You're right, I haven't had time to go through all of them to figure out if the US instigated solely for the purpose of their own agenda or at the behest of the UN. However, having watched lately how the American administration has strong armed various EU countries into going along with them and having done some reading on some of those instances, I have no doubt that while some 'decisions' may have come through the UN, many of them were 'suggested and pushed for' by the US. Let us not forget how many years the Americans supported the murderous Khmer Rouge seats in the UN despite their bloody record of murder so suggesting that the US couldn't pressure anyone is ignoring obvious and historical facts.

France had a contract with Russia to build two Mistral warships that were supposed to be delivered in November 2014 and America pressured France to renege on that signed and paid for contract so now France is facing penalties and repayment totalling $3 bn. And to top it off, several of your senators made the dubious(ridiculous) suggestion that NATO should buy those ships from France who in turn would have to pay that money to Russia for the penalties they owe for screwing the deal. France of course only reneged because of pressure from America to turn their back on a signed and paid for contract. http://www.globalresearch.ca/france...to-russia-president-francois-hollande/5416822

And personally, you can play with the words, war, police actions or whatever, the fact remains, that the USA has caused chaos across the globe but amazingly you people haven't had to suffer from any of it save burying your soldiers when they come home. Everywhere else though, ruins, death and destruction. In Hillary Clintons own words, 'we saw, we came, (they) died' spoken when Gaddafi was brutally slaughtered during an illegal conflict (I won't call it war so that should make you feel better).



And by the way, it wasn't me who compiled that list of countries that the US has bombed. So your argument there is with somebody else on that score. Why don't you satisfy your curiosity and Google them and see if they don't belong on that list.
 
Well, not to please you, I have been reading some of that garbage you have posted. Very little truth in some of them and others are much ado about nothing. Many of them are truly UN efforts to try to bring justice to situations. I guess you don't count that at all and just love to point the finger at the US. Have a ball with that. It is your privilege, as wrong as it may be in some cases. You have just babbled on about all the evils but have no real proofs at all. Most of what I find is from those peace type groups that bundle and bunch data so that it looks like those that have been trying to help others to stay free of communism are the bad ones. But our histories show us over and over that it is the communist and far left socialist that are really keeping people from having real freedom. Yes I am reading the list you posted and of the top 8, 5 are UN driven and the other three were 1. part of Vietnam war 2. Not sure of any China war I could not find a record of such. 3. Not a war with Cuba as you seem to think. There was an attack attempted by Cuban citizens, not a war by US declaration.

Your list of wars is not at all true all along the list.
 
Your perspective, your opinion. And everyone is entitled to one.

I will say this, I was looking at a list of global conflicts in general and in black and white, America isn't the only country that has behaved badly. I became interested in foreign affairs about two years ago as a result of reading about a Palestinian Knesset MP walk out on a speech by my Prime Minister. Out of a desire to understand why, I began reading all sorts of reports (UN, humanitarian, their local papers, a couple history books and so on) and naturally because of America's support of what I now view as a violent and abusive government, I began taking note of the effect that your country has on the world.

According to a poll done by Gallup International, the US is considered the largest threat to world peace today or at least that what was believed in 2013. http://www.ibtimes.com/gallup-poll-biggest-threat-world-peace-america-1525008 So I'm not the only one who is apprehensive about the heavy footprint of our country.


And now I read and I watch all sorts of credible information that isn't getting onto CNN and their sort or if it is, it's skewed, and about the Russian/European/Ukrainian situation and I'm amazed at how much manipulation of the truth is going on. It's truly fascinating, like something out of a John Grisham novel or something. So it's not really personal although maybe you feel as though it is. I feel the same way sort of about my own government at this point except I think Harper is kind of a wannabe. He wants to be the tough guy of a big country, but he's stuck with Canada so he struts and puffs.

I think if we could get over our pathological need to be defensive when somebody points out truths (like the US armed al Quaeda in Syria, or helped eliminate a democratic government in Ukraine, etc) and be honest about the failings of our governments and demand better, then we might have a chance of surviving the next 25 years. The way it looks though is that your country's leaders are hell bent on pushing Russia until they feel they have to protect themselves from America's bellicosity and then WW3 begins. And they've used Ukraine to do it in the hope that Russia will buckle and bow. And I don't get the impression that that's the Russian way.

Anyway, it's really late and I'm off to bed. Have a good night eh. Been interesting.
 
Interesting in your posted comments is that most of those folks that claimed the US was most dangerous also said the US was the first place they would like to move to if they could. Middle east was where most said the US was bad? Those folks say what they are told to say and little else where they live.

Your post does not say anything about why the US goes where they go with their military and fights for the UN in mass with other countries. This article you are following does not speak well of the US but it also does does not show why the US does go where it goes and what it is often doing. Working for the UN wishes as other countries are doing.

You seem to have a US HATE problem that to me is your problem and not going to be part of my problem. One measure for the US that to me shows the level of loyalty in the US to our government is the fact that our military is filled by volunteers. We have not had a draft in the US for many years now. I volunteered, my son and daughter both volunteered, after completing college. Many folks in the US do volunteer for what the country or UN decides to do.

Live your life as you see fit and I hope the US continues to help itself, the UN, and other countries to live safer and with out fear of being over run by out of control governments.
 
A freedom of speech thing, bashing the USA. We're still the proclaimed Number 1 super power, so that entitles us to some bashing. I did read somewhere else in one of the national publications, was it a United Nations Report, the greatest danger to world peace is the United States, so a number of people worldwide hold that opinion and there is some validity to the report. A substantial number in the US Congress are what we refer dot as hawks (warmongers is another word for it) we have one of the largest military forces in the world and the military industrial complex which presumably would include those hawks in Congress, provide all the grownup military toys the military needs and wants. And those ideas produced in the Pentagon have to be tested somewhere, so what better place than a small war. We are a warlike nation and we demonstrate that over and over. So in addition to a freedom of speech thing, the writer might actually be right. Just saying.
 
If that was in the UN report, I wonder why? For many years now we are the major country answering the UN's cries for military help for this country or that country in various parts of the world. I believe our first, and one of the biggest in cost of lives, was Korea. Since then we have had many other goes for the UN's pleasure. Maybe the US should just stop trying to bring peace to this world as the UN demands. The US has never taken anything from those adventures in the form of adopted lands. Nor has the US forced any type of government or religion on those lands we helped protect to the UN's pleasure.

We are not a war like nation for our pleasure, but we do often try to help other countries hold their way when attacked by others. One place we should have intervened in was Cuba. At first we allowed their revolution to take place but then in response. Cuba has rejected the US and had Russia come in and build rocket bases against the US. Good old Jack Kennedy, Democrat, stood up to Cuba and Russia and as a result, Russia pulled its rockets and left Cuba to stand alone if wanting to attack the US. There are times when the US does stand alone against possible threats to our way of life. But more likely we will do UN types of work to protect countries from hateful dictators or attacks from outside.
 

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