Was the recent ruling against Jordan Peterson an infringement of his free speech?

Paco Dennis

Paco Dennis

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From what I've gathered, Dr. Jordan B. Peterson was taken to court by the College of Psychologists of Ontario on complaints of professional misconduct. This was based on him making public statements (of a political kind) that they deemed unprofessional. You can read about it here.

The Ontario court ruled that Dr. Peterson must choose between undergoing social media sensitivity training, or lose his medical license.

According to a recent video (time-stamped for relevance), Dr. Peterson intends to appeal the ruling to the Canadian Supreme Court on the basis of it being a free speech infringement. From what I understand, this is based (partially, perhaps) on the College being a governmental body, meaning they cannot regulate free speech the same way a private organization can.

I do not know a lot of the details regarding this trial, nor regarding what the exact contents of Dr. Peterson's appeal is. My question is; was this ruling an illegal infringement of his free speech? Any answers that go beyond this question in order to answer whether or not other aspects (if they exist) of his proposed appeal are legally reasonable will also be appreciated.

Was the recent ruling against Jordan Peterson an infringement of his free speech?

IMO, Peterson was using his classroom to promote his personal bias, and this action by the College is justified. If he wants to be an influencer there are many platforms to use. He then can make his living by his followers.?
 

@Paco Dennis said "If he wants to be an influencer there are many platforms to use." And he does--YouTube, both long form and short; He's appeared on Joe Rogan's Podcast and he does his own.

Somehow i think he has goals beyond just being an influencer. He is the most dangerous kind of person with any such ambitions (i am just thankful that he's Canadian--so he won't run for office here) because he IS intelligent and logical--tho some of his logic is fallacious because it is based on making some of the same assumptions about human beings he does.

i can't say much more without getting too much into politics. So i'm done here.
 
Murrmurr said:
Technically, the ruling wasn't about his freedom of speech, the ruling says he must attend the social media training course ordered by the College of Psychologists of Ontario. The course is mandatory, so he does not have the choice to opt out.
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or, he will be fired. Why hadn't he taken the course before if it is mandatory...for all teachers?
 
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I don't follow Jordan Peterson and don't know what he said. But I think America/US/Canada/Mexico is getting closer to looking at speech and how it affects liberties of society overall. I think the idea of free speech originally assumed thoughtful reflection, without inciting violence. I think we are edging our way beyond that and thinking we can say anything we want. I don't know where that line is, and don't know if we will ever even agree there is a line.
 
JustDave said:
I don't follow Jordan Peterson and don't know what he said. But I think America/US/Canada/Mexico is getting closer to looking at speech and how it affects liberties of society overall. I think the idea of free speech originally assumed thoughtful reflection, without inciting violence. I think we are edging our way beyond that and thinking we can say anything we want. I don't know where that line is, and don't know if we will ever even agree there is a line.
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The idea of free speech was to ensure the ruling class could never suppress the thoughts and opinions of the people they govern.

The line is that your speech should never suppress others.
 
I think the message, not the messenger should be the focus of these various organizations, government entities and cupcake civilians who can't untie the knots in their panties themselves
 
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fuzzybuddy said:
There's a difference between scholarly advocating an unpopular position, and a jack ass, running his mouth off. Mister Peterson can run his mouth off, but Doctor Peterson can't, he has a license and is bound by professional conduct rules.
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That is the issue he is facing. I guess he's feeling strongly that it should not apply in his case. But that's for his organization to decide.
 
I brought this to the forums attention because I have felt censoring in talking about certain things, both in public and online. I feel like there are subjects that are very important that others feel they too negative or they go against what is socially acceptable. For example I feel the "abrupt climate event" that the globe is experiencing is off limits. Peterson is a whinner as long as I have been listening to him, but he does have the right to speak his mind, but not in an academic institution that has guiding principles. I guess there are platforms online like X ( formerly twitter ) is "free speech" zone, where almost anything is allowed.
I understand the need to keep a optimistic outlook, and we all can do this if we quit reacting emotionally. We need to be able to discuss rationally subjects that normally push our buttons. These discussions can remain civil if we exchange ideas rather that making them solely subjective reactions. For example I am going to post something next that I hope many will view. I would love to hear comments, not BS reactions. we'll see. :)
 
Murrmurr said:
Technically, the ruling wasn't about his freedom of speech, the ruling says he must attend the social media training course ordered by the College of Psychologists of Ontario. The course is mandatory, so he does not have the choice to opt out.
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Actually he does have an option. He can stop seeing patients as a clinical Psychologist, and stop lecturing at the U of T where he is a fully tenured Professor, and walk away from the profession. His other option is to take this case to the Supreme Court of Canada. The SCoC is the highest appeal court in this country, and he is sure to get financial support from people who agree with him. Freedom of speech in Canada is LIMITED, not unlimited. He will probably have his legal council argue that his rights under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms have been abused by the Ontario College of Psychologists. I think he will win, too. JimB.
 
jimintoronto said:
He will probably have his legal council argue that his rights under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms have been abused by the Ontario College of Psychologists. I think he will win, too. JimB.
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I think you're right about that. It can certainly be argued he does not use his right to free speech to a point of abusing or impeding the rights of others at all.
 
Paco Dennis said:
or, he will be fired. Why hadn't he taken the course before if it is mandatory...for all teachers?
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I believe Dr. Jordan has 2 issues with this course - 1) it's a non-academic course yet it's mandatory, and 2) from his perspective, the course itself is a practice in social suppression.

It would be very interesting to know exactly what the social media sensitivity training is; what it trains one to do, what behaviors it aims to alter, what its ultimate goal is, etc.
 
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Murrmurr said:
social media sensitivity training is
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I found this international site. Maybe something along these lines

Our social media awareness training courses will help your employees understand the importance of following your organisation’s social media policy and code of conduct, when sharing company information is allowed and the dangers of sharing confidential or private information.

Key learning points within this course include:

  • The benefits and dangers of social media
  • The importance of following your organisation’s code of conduct :)
  • How to protect confidential information
  • When sharing company information is allowed
  • The dangers of accidentally revealing company information
https://www.delta-net.com/compliance/social-media-awareness/
 
Paco Dennis said:
I found this international site. Maybe something along these lines

Our social media awareness training courses will help your employees understand the importance of following your organisation’s social media policy and code of conduct, when sharing company information is allowed and the dangers of sharing confidential or private information.

Key learning points within this course include:

  • The benefits and dangers of social media
  • The importance of following your organisation’s code of conduct :)
  • How to protect confidential information
  • When sharing company information is allowed
  • The dangers of accidentally revealing company information
https://www.delta-net.com/compliance/social-media-awareness/
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Thanks, Paco.

So it was the responsibility of the College of Psychologists to show where and how Dr Jordan violated their social media policy by sharing confidential company info., and apparently they were able to do that.

And I assume his argument is that the college's policy is a direct violation of his (and everyone's) right to free speech.

I haven't looked into this, but now I'm curious....so I probably will.
 
Murrmurr said:
He has stated that he believes strongly it should not apply in anyone's case.
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Yes, he wants to change the system, so that he won't be subject to organization policy. The only way he can do that is fix it so that whatever he doesn't like won't apply to anyone. But that's for his organization, which may include him, to decide. Maybe he can change it. I don't care, because I've never thought anything he talks about to be of much importance.
 
feywon said:
@Paco Dennis said "If he wants to be an influencer there are many platforms to use." And he does--YouTube, both long form and short; He's appeared on Joe Rogan's Podcast and he does his own.

Somehow i think he has goals beyond just being an influencer. He is the most dangerous kind of person with any such ambitions (i am just thankful that he's Canadian--so he won't run for office here) because he IS intelligent and logical--tho some of his logic is fallacious because it is based on making some of the same assumptions about human beings he does.

i can't say much more without getting too much into politics. So i'm done here.
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Imho, he folds his principles to fit his prejudices.
 
JustDave said:
Yes, he wants to change the system, so that he won't be subject to organization policy. The only way he can do that is fix it so that whatever he doesn't like won't apply to anyone. But that's for his organization, which may include him, to decide. Maybe he can change it. I don't care, because I've never thought anything he talks about to be of much importance.
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I used to watch his in-class lectures fairly regularly, up til he stopped posting them some years ago. They were mostly about the psychology of popular culture and the role that culture in general plays in psychology and social attitudes and behavior. Very interesting stuff.

Anyway, judging only by that - him interacting with his students and them interacting with him - he didn't seem to have an issue with the U of P until recently; like the last 3 or 4 years. So I suppose he's alarmed by recent cultural trends and how they are effecting people.
 
It would have been 4 or 5 years ago, I was on a forum with a resident troll. He got into a Jordon Peterson mode and started posting videos of this guy. Now he only posted troll stuff, and most of the time, I didn't read any of it, but I was just curious about who Jordan Peterson was so I watched a couple.

I don't know if it was offensive or not, because most of the time, I didn't know what Jordan Peterson was talking about. He had a very authoritary style of pontification and sounded intelligent, but mostly I didn't know what his point was, and considering the source of the post, I didn't try to understand very hard. I recognized that he was agitated, and haven't paid much attention to him after that.

But my introduction to him was through a troll, albeit an intelligent one, who eventually got banned from the forum. Maybe Jordan Peterson deserves more credit for me, but honestly, I've got better things to do than watch his videos.
 

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