What are the education standards today?

T

TennVet

Member
It's easy to say that when I went to school it was this way or that way. At the same time ask a bank teller how many young persons print their signature because they were not even taught to write a signature in cursive. How many times have you paid at the register let's for a total due of $4.28 by handing the clerk a $5 bill, 2 dimes, 1 nickel and 3 pennies. You do this expecting a $1 bill in return, and the clerk is lost in the mist. Try this, ask a young person to recite the pledge of allegiance or how old you must be to become President of the United States. It is mind boggling. No it's just not necessary.
 

I am overjoyed with the education my almost 6 year old grandson is getting in Public School Kindergarten. On the Upper East Side of Manhattan. Class size small, and he is actually READING at a level I wasn't taught till second grade and my son wasn't taught till first. It is remarkable. Just wish they would start teaching Spanish soon. Oh wait, it's NYC, make that Russian. Just kidding. Spanish will be best.
 
Pepper said:
I am overjoyed with the education my almost 6 year old grandson is getting in Public School Kindergarten. On the Upper East Side of Manhattan. Class size small, and he is actually READING at a level I wasn't taught till second grade and my son wasn't taught till first. It is remarkable. Just wish they would start teaching Spanish soon. Oh wait, it's NYC, make that Russian. Just kidding. Spanish will be best.
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I hope I am totally wrong on this subject, but I'll need some convincing.
 

Speaking as a former teacher in Australia I can say that the curriculum is more relevant today to the times we live in than it was when I was a school girl. In the 1950s the science syllabus had not been updated since the 1910s. It was good basic physics and chemistry but lacked relevance to a world that was about to enter the space age.

In mathematics we either did our calculations in our heads, on paper or using log tables. It took ages to calculate, then check the results. What we did not learn was how to estimate the answer, IMO a vital skill that comes in handy when using a calculator.

The astronomy that I taught in the 60s and 70s was extremely rudimentary but it was what I was taught in 1955.

Education today is not just about memorising facts. It develops the whole person and includes developing mental skills of analysis, synthesis of ideas and critical thinking. So much is crammed into the syllabus that there is no time to waste on memorising things that can be easily accessed using a computer, or even the phone in your pocket. What is important is being able to assess the value and validity of what pops up because just as we had to double check our calculations, it is vital that students know how to check what they read online for truth and accuracy.
 
TennVet said:
It's easy to say that when I went to school it was this way or that way. At the same time ask a bank teller how many young persons print their signature because they were not even taught to write a signature in cursive. How many times have you paid at the register let's for a total due of $4.28 by handing the clerk a $5 bill, 2 dimes, 1 nickel and 3 pennies. You do this expecting a $1 bill in return, and the clerk is lost in the mist. Try this, ask a young person to recite the pledge of allegiance or how old you must be to become President of the United States. It is mind boggling. No it's just not necessary.
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This is pretty much what we experience here in northern Alabama as well. It is not just the students who do not have any clue how to count out money if the machine does not make the right change; but we also have a lot of people who came here from India, or another non-English speaking country, and they can barely speak properly , let alone make change.

Unless people have a digital clock, they can’t tell time with a regular analog clock or watch sometimes, either. Smartphones have only made things worse, because of the “shorthand” words they use instead of spelling out an actual word, so not only can people not write in cursive anymore, they can’t even spell real words some of the time.
We seniors are becoming the only people left who understand how to write, spell, and drive a stick-shift car.
 
I agree with Warrigal - education is just teaching different skills as the world has changed.

so, yes, seniors will be the only people left who know how to write cursive or balance cheques or use logarithisms or whatever - because those skills are not taught for a world that does not use them.
That isnt an education problem, it is education adjusting to real life skills for today's real life
 
Some time ago - three maybe four years ago I remember doing an internet search to find a high school syllabus on what subjects were being taught. Goal was to compare what is being taught today to what I was taught 1957-1961. Came up dry but not for trying multiple times over the course of a week. Finally gave up.

True, I no longer have children of school age but still curious and didn't understand why it was not available. After all, I still pay taxes to the school district.
 
Warrigal said:
Speaking as a former teacher in Australia I can say that the curriculum is more relevant today to the times we live in than it was when I was a school girl. In the 1950s the science syllabus had not been updated since the 1910s. It was good basic physics and chemistry but lacked relevance to a world that was about to enter the space age.

In mathematics we either did our calculations in our heads, on paper or using log tables. It took ages to calculate, then check the results. What we did not learn was how to estimate the answer, IMO a vital skill that comes in handy when using a calculator.

The astronomy that I taught in the 60s and 70s was extremely rudimentary but it was what I was taught in 1955.

Education today is not just about memorising facts. It develops the whole person and includes developing mental skills of analysis, synthesis of ideas and critical thinking. So much is crammed into the syllabus that there is no time to waste on memorising things that can be easily accessed using a computer, or even the phone in your pocket. What is important is being able to assess the value and validity of what pops up because just as we had to double check our calculations, it is vital that students know how to check what they read online for truth and accuracy.
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One of my nephews has two kids in grade school and it seems to be similar here too and I am happy about it. My only frustration is that not enough money is being distributed to the schools and teachers but sadly that is not a new thing....

When I went to graduated from high school there were classmates who had issues reading, writing, and knowing basic math skills. They got pushed through the system. It's not anything new.
 
Now I am thinking back about when I was in 6th grade through 8th grade. Boys took shop classes and girls took home ec classes. That's just the way it was. I did like shop class. I brought my mom home some really nice ash trays and wooden shelves and she displayed them proudly in the house for a few months. As I look back now, I wish that I could have taken home ec for at least one year.

One other thing that puzzles me is why I had to memorize the preamble to the US Constitution in the 3rd Grade. Don't get me wrong, it is a very important document that I think every school kid in the US should know but from what I remember, we were required to memorize it in the 3rd grade but we did not have any classes about what it meant until around the 5th grade. It seems to me that if you are required to memorize something you should be taught what it means at the same time.

I did just check about cursive writing in my state and it was reintroduced as a requirement back in 2016 . It was the first state to do so. May other states have done the same. Students must be able to read and write both printed and cursive words. by the 5th grade I hated cursive writing lessons. My handwriting was always horrible and it has gotten worse as I have gotten older. My cursive writing frustrated a lot of teachers when I turned in papers .

My signature looks like someone dropped a pen on a piece of paper and the pen made some random marks. But I haven't cashed a check in years and it is very rare that I have to sign a receipt anymore so I guess I got through life OK with my crummy handwriting.

Oh, and I did check and long division is still taught in the 5th and 6th grade here.
 
I was looking at an analogue watch today online.. just a plain ordinary white faced analogue watch... and someone had written this review....

''It's nice that everything you need to learn the time is on it: morning/afternoon and the minutes in steps of 5.''


like they'd never seen a watch face before..
 
MarkinPhx said:
Oh, and I did check and long division is still taught in the 5th and 6th grade here.
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Oh, but do they understand that multiplication is actually a process of successive addition, and division is the reverse of multiplication, being a process of successive subtractions with anything left over at the end being the remainder? That is how digital computers work and they do it remarkably fast.
 
A number of Provinces in Canada will be making an interesting addition to school curriculums making it mandatory to include Holocaust studies as a part of social studies classes beginning in the 2024/25 school year.

It's become clear that detailed knowlege of the Holocaust and what lead up to it happening have been lost or convoluted over the generations since WW2 ended.
A recent study in Canada found:
- One in five young people in Canada either hasn't heard of the Holocaust or isn't sure what it is.
- 15 per cent of Canadian adults and more than one fifth of Canadians under age 34 (22 per cent) haven't heard about or are not sure if they have heard about the Holocaust.
- Nearly half of Canadian respondents (49 per cent) couldn't name a single concentration camp. That's roughly equal to the U.S., where 45 per cent couldn't name one in a similar survey there last year.
- Nearly one quarter of all Canadians (23 per cent) believe substantially fewer than six million Jews were killed (two million or fewer) during the Holocaust, while another 24 per cent were unsure of how many were killed.
- Few Canadians believe there are many neo-Nazis in Canada today, while nearly half think there are many in the U.S. In fact, on a per capita basis, the two countries have roughly the same number of neo-Nazis.

And don't think thingsare any different in other countries. Similar studies have shown the same results in the US, the UK and other places.

It's an important and valuable addition that will bring to kid's attention just what can happen to any group of people when hatred is allowed to grow unchecked. We can't let these lessons of history to disappear!
 
Warrigal said:
Oh, but do they understand that multiplication is actually a process of successive addition, and division is the reverse of multiplication, being a process of successive subtractions with anything left over at the end being the remainder? That is how digital computers work and they do it remarkably fast.
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I sure hope they do considering they spend two years learning it ! I was in high school when the TI calculators became a thing and in calculus we were only allowed to use them to verify our answers. We still had to do all the work on paper. And not allowed to bring them into class when we had a test.
 
I was put in some classes for slow learners from elementary to high school. I am not. I'm average. I read and comprehend well because I read a lot as an isolated kid. I love spell check. Not a stellar speller.

Math, not so great. However I too was at a store once and the register was down. My purchase was something like $16.21. So I gave the young woman a 20, a 1 and 21 cents. She could not figure this out. This is more basic than basic. And that's pretty sad.
 
hollydolly said:
I was looking at an analogue watch today online.. just a plain ordinary white faced analogue watch... and someone had written this review....

''It's nice that everything you need to learn the time is on it: morning/afternoon and the minutes in steps of 5.''


like they'd never seen a watch face before..
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When I first started using military time at my job, I had to really think. But once I got used to it, I love it. No 9 am and 9 pm. Just 0900 and 2100.
 
I don't think the education in the 50s & 60s was all that great. I wanted to take a typing class, the nun said that my secretary would do all my typing, and I wasn't allowed to take it. Well, what the hell am I doing now???? I had 4 years of Latin, which doesn't prepare me for any scientific vocation. I remember when my kid brother, who is ten years younger, came home with the "set theory" in math. And I didn't know what it was. We no longer need to know how to make stone spear points, and if you don't have a relevant, STEM education, you'll be stuck, for life, saying, "Do you want fries with that?".
 
fuzzybuddy said:
I don't think the education in the 50s & 60s was all that great. I wanted to take a typing class, the nun said that my secretary would do all my typing, and I wasn't allowed to take it. Well, what the hell am I doing now???? I had 4 years of Latin, which doesn't prepare me for any scientific vocation. I remember when my kid brother, who is ten years younger, came home with the "set theory" in math. And I didn't know what it was. We no longer need to know how to make stone spear points, and if you don't have a relevant, STEM education, you'll be stuck, for life, saying, "Do you want fries with that?".
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I've said it before on the forums but the smartest thing I did when in high school was to take an elective typing class instead of a free enterprise class. One year later I was taking a business stats class in college and had to learn BASIC for the class. I was so thankful that I took that typing class.
 
Warrigal said:
Oh, but do they understand that multiplication is actually a process of successive addition, and division is the reverse of multiplication, being a process of successive subtractions with anything left over at the end being the remainder? That is how digital computers work and they do it remarkably fast.
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My grandchildren are in 6th and 3rd grades. Believe me, they understand the basics of mathematics. Unfortunately, they aren't required to memorize math facts, as my children, my generation, my parents and grandparents were. I'm talking about knowing 9+7=16 and 9 x 7=63 off the tops of their heads along with the corresponding subtraction and division facts. I realized this quite accidentally when playing a game with them over their spring break. It shocked me, to be honest.

My advice to them was that they spend some time this summer learning those facts - and also touch typing - because they'll find them useful throughout their lives. Their mother (my daughter) agreed. Whether they will is yet to be seen.
 
MarkinPhx said:
I've said it before on the forums but the smartest thing I did when in high school was to take an elective typing class instead of a free enterprise class. One year later I was taking a business stats class in college and had to learn BASIC for the class. I was so thankful that I took that typing class.
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Likewise. When computers and the internet came around, I bought a children's typing program (Mario Teaches Typing) to teach my children and a refresher for me. Such a valuable skill.
 
StarSong said:
My grandchildren are in 6th and 3rd grades. Believe me, they understand the basics of mathematics. Unfortunately, they aren't required to memorize math facts, as my children, my generation, my parents and grandparents were. I'm talking about knowing 9+7=16 and 9 x 7=63 off the tops of their heads along with the corresponding subtraction and division facts. I realized this quite accidentally when playing a game with them over their spring break. It shocked me, to be honest.

My advice to them was that they spend some time this summer learning those facts - and also touch typing - because they'll find them useful throughout their lives. Their mother (my daughter) agreed. Whether they will is yet to be seen.
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You can buy books of graded exercises in maths and English language in any bookstore. People use them to coach their kids for scholarship exams and for places in selective schools. Mastery learning involves practice and time. If you do want to encourage them to use the books don't forget to offer rewards for achievement. Goals should be practical like "complete three exercises every day for a week" and later the goals could be something like "no more than 2 mistakes out of 20 for a timed exercise".
 
We can see the evolution of educational standards in the curiculum being taught. This curriculum has been analysed by doctors of education. They understand the need of teaching reasoning, creativity, communication skills, etc. Nothing is being skipped. Over the years these methods of teaching have changed, just as the culture has changed.

There is always strong debate on how and what is being taught at each leverl of educational developement. Of course poorly funded/poor schools lack the modern capabilities of the schools that are well provided for. That is a disadvantage that has existed for a very long time. So the standards of education fit with the economic and cultural environmaent of that particular school. There are standards that each country and state require also. That also varies from region to region.

Nothing in this life is perfect, and education is a very complex subject with no pat answers or methods. It is a living task, which doesn't just involve a formal school. We learn from those who know more than we do, and from people who care about us understanding our world. Those people and circumstances come from every walk of life. It comes down to each individual, and the ability to "learn how to learn." :)
 
Warrigal said:
You can buy books of graded exercises in maths and English language in any bookstore. People use them to coach their kids for scholarship exams and for places in selective schools. Mastery learning involves practice and time. If you do want to encourage them to use the books don't forget to offer rewards for achievement. Goals should be practical like "complete three exercises every day for a week" and later the goals could be something like "no more than 2 mistakes out of 20 for a timed exercise".
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I'm going to talk to DD about this. Her children are voracious readers - well above grade level - and their English skills are excellent. However, with both DD & DSIL being teachers, they recognize where there are shortfalls in their children's educations. Perhaps if we work together we can help our grandchildren commit to memory these very basic mathematical skills.

I'd be happy to provide rewards. Will noodle this out with her.

Typing skills will be easier to offer rewards for. Half an hour at the typing program can earn some time playing computer games (which they love, but their permitted time doing that is limited).

Thank you for the suggestions.
 
MarkinPhx said:
I must admit that my main motivation to take the typing class wasn't to learn to type :rolleyes:
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Me too. My senior year of high school I was 1/2 credit short for graduation (having failed Algebra II spectacularly the year before). Typing class had an empty seat. Me the only boy in the class. Ended up being most useful. Strange how that worked out.

Don't remember much about 2nd-4th grades. Left-handed was I and do remember to this day getting my left hand smacked with a ruler by the teacher every time I used my left hand for cursive. So right-handed I became. Except, strangely, on the playground. Playing sandlot softball on recess batted and threw left-handed. Never any corrective action taken there. Was a puzzle to me then as it still is now.

Enlisting in the Air Force in 1961 found me sorely in need of algebraic knowledge. I got plugged into a training slot as a missile guidance tech when the need for radio operators dried up. Fortunately, one of my mates in training tutored me with just what I needed to know. Strangely, it came easy knowing there was a practical application for it. Had the practicality of it been impressed on me as a high school student, it may have gotten more of my attention.
 

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