What Do Real Muslims Believe?

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OneEyedDiva said:
Yet I saw in a reply to your comment in this thread (I haven't read through the entire thread yet). You wrote I didn't have the right to "beg to differ" with Lara . What's odd about that is that I disagreed as a current Muslim and a former Christian who got certain knowledge from Christian ministers! In fact, Lara mis-stated (thereby misrepresented) Muslim's relationship with God and who God is. I explained that in my reply to her if you care to read it.

Despite my disagreeing with some of what you both replied, I get the sense that you are both very nice people. Can we agree on that? 🙂
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What? What'd I do now?:LOL: I haven't been in this thread for weeks but...

if anyone wants to differ with me then please feel free to differ away. I promise not to bite.
And yes, I agree, the 3 of us "are all nice people"🤗

Diva, I probably read your post, found it interesting, and appreciated it but I've learned over time, for myself, to use fewer words and to "know when to fold 'em, when to walk away, when to run"🙃 I left this thread weeks ago because I probably felt I'd said all I could say.

I've learned not to belabor my views regarding different religions. I don't really want to have the last word. I'm happy to come and go more quickly these days.
 

Alligatorob said:
Too many, one would be too many and I know its more than that...

I have to admit to being instinctively prejudiced, I just don't feel as comfortable around strangers who don't look like me. I wish that were not true, but I have to admit that it is. It doesn't last long once I meet a person, and I work to try and keep it from letting me take irrational actions. I remember once walking down a dark street in Washington DC and noticing two young black me "following" me. I got pretty nervous and ducked into the first open door I could find. As they walked by I could see they were harmless, just normal people. I know that had they been white I would not have reacted that way. That was 30 years ago and I still feel a bit guilty about it. Overcoming prejudice can be hard, but admitting to it is a good first step. I suspect many of us harbor some prejudices, often deeply hidden and instinctive.
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Ture story. I once heard the Rev Jessie Jackson tell about a time he was walking down the street, at night, in Washington D.C. He felt a presence behind him and became nervous. He crossed the street and glanced back. He said, "I was so relieved to see that it was only 2 white men". if anyone else had said that, there would have been hysterical screams of racism.
 
OneEyedDiva said:
@Alligatorob You said "there have been times in history that the Muslims have offered sanctuary to the Jews, protecting them from Christians." I want to add to this. My husband once told me we have to "watch out for the Jews" He didn't mean watch out as in they are gonna get you...he meant we are supposed to protect them if necessary and help them when possible. This reminds me of a story I read a few years back. A Jewish cemetery had been badly vandalized. A group of Muslims pitched in and helped the Jewish people clean it up. This is not an isolated incident of Muslims and Jewish people working together for a common cause.
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For every time a Muslim goes of out of the way to help a Jew, there are 10 times when a Muslim has murdered a Jew. Remember the Leon Klinghoffer incident on the cruise ship Achille Lauro where Muslims took an old Jewish man in a wheel chair and pushed him overboard into the sea ?
Who else remembers the Munich Olympics, 1972 ?
Long, long before Israel even became a state, Muslims have been murdering Jews in the country called Palestine.
 

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senior chef said:
For every time a Muslim goes of out of the way to help a Jew, there are 10 times when a Muslim has murdered a Jew
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Do you have any actual statistics to back this up? I hope it is not true.

See Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_under_Muslim_rule in part:

Jews under Islamic rule were given the status of dhimmi, along with certain other pre-Islamic religious groups. Though second-class citizens, these non-Muslim groups were nevertheless accorded certain rights and protections as "people of the book". During waves of persecution in Medieval Europe, many Jews found refuge in Muslim lands. For instance, Jews from the Iberian peninsula were invited to settle in various parts of the Ottoman Empire during the Spanish inquisition, where they would often form a prosperous model minority of merchants acting as intermediaries for their Muslim rulers.
 
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The Spanish Inquisition left Muslims alone, Jews too.
I've been terrorized by more so called Christians than
I ever have by Muslims and Jewish people combined.
And more white men have betrayed me than any other
type of person, ever! Still, better is a nicer feeling than bitter.
Sometimes I think I know how indigenous people must feel
but I'm sure that's impossible. White men though, bad news.
 
senior chef said:
I once heard the Rev Jessie Jackson tell about a time he was walking down the street, at night, in Washington D.C. He felt a presence behind him and became nervous. He crossed the street and glanced back. He said, "I was so relieved to see that it was only 2 white men".
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Interesting story, if true. I did some research and it does appear true, see https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1993-12-03-1993337169-story.html

Lots of prejudices out there I guess...
 
The main thing to remember about Christians, Jews and Muslims is that the Christian church, long ago, stopped preaching hatred toward Jews, while the Muslim religion continues to not only preach hatred about Jews, they actively advocate killing Jews at every opportunity.

As far as I can tell, Muslims have not changed one tiny bit since the writing of the Quran.

Direct quote from the Quran (4: 89)
"They wish you would believe, as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them any allies until they immigrate for the cause of Allah. But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them where ever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper".

The above is certain not the only passage about killing Jews written in the Quran. There are dozens and dozens more.
 
Neither the "Christian church" nor the "Muslim religion" are monolithic, you can find evil people using their religion for support in either. The Klan is supposed to be a Christian based organization and they certainly preach hatred of Jews, even today.

I know less about Muslims, but do have some personal experiences. I spent time in Saudi Arabia a few years back and ran into Jews working there. The local Saudis, practicing Muslims, worked with them and knew they were Jews and could care less. They got on fine, even joked about it. This despite Saudi's reputation as being very anti-Semitic.
 
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senior chef said:
I see absolutely no hope that Muslims will ever treat women as real human beings with feelings, needs and rights
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Again there is a lot of variation in how Muslims treat women. And I would hope things are improving, however the situation in many Muslim countries is not good for women. I have hope, but also have to recognize reality. See the attached for a good scientifically based study of the problem.
 

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Alligatorob said:
Neither the "Christian church" nor the "Muslim religion" are monolithic, you can find evil people using their religion for support in either. The Klan is supposed to be a Christian based organization and they certainly preach hatred of Jews, even today.
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Just because the Klan calls themselves Christian, certainly doesn't make them Christian. Christ preached Love (1 Corinthians 13). The Klan preaches hatred. If one doesn't believe and practice Christ's teachings then they aren't Christian. Christians may sin via temptation but they don't make a habit of sinning the same sin over and over aka repent. So don't make the mistake of believing what the Klan says
 
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Alligatorob said:
Too many, one would be too many and I know its more than that...

I have to admit to being instinctively prejudiced, I just don't feel as comfortable around strangers who don't look like me. I wish that were not true, but I have to admit that it is. It doesn't last long once I meet a person, and I work to try and keep it from letting me take irrational actions. I remember once walking down a dark street in Washington DC and noticing two young black me "following" me. I got pretty nervous and ducked into the first open door I could find. As they walked by I could see they were harmless, just normal people. I know that had they been white I would not have reacted that way. That was 30 years ago and I still feel a bit guilty about it. Overcoming prejudice can be hard, but admitting to it is a good first step. I suspect many of us harbor some prejudices, often deeply hidden and instinctive.
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What’s funny is you are probably more in danger from white teenagers than black, but if males, of any color or age, seem to be “following me”, I get nervous.
 
Alligatorob said:
Again there is a lot of variation in how Muslims treat women. And I would hope things are improving, however the situation in many Muslim countries is not good for women. I have hope, but also have to recognize reality. See the attached for a good scientifically based study of the problem.
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I think it has less to do with religion and more to do with men-thus the ME TOO movement.
 
Lara said:
What? What'd I do now?:LOL: I haven't been in this thread for weeks but...

if anyone wants to differ with me then please feel free to differ away. I promise not to bite.
And yes, I agree, the 3 of us "are all nice people"🤗

Diva, I probably read your post, found it interesting, and appreciated it but I've learned over time, for myself, to use fewer words and to "know when to fold 'em, when to walk away, when to run"🙃 I left this thread weeks ago because I probably felt I'd said all I could say.

I've learned not to belabor my views regarding different religions. I don't really want to have the last word. I'm happy to come and go more quickly these days.
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Ok, I will have the last word 😂
 
Lara said:
Just because the Klan calls themselves Christian, certainly doesn't make them Christian. Christ preached Love (1 Corinthians 13). The Klan preaches hatred. If one doesn't believe and practice Christ's teachings then they aren't Christian. Christians may sin via temptation but they don't make a habit of sinning the same sin over and over. They also repent. So don't make the mistake of believing what the Klan says
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Many repent on their deaths beds 🤦🏻‍♀️ and, while they are sincere, they are judged on the sum total of their life and words. God judges all.
 
senior chef said:
The main thing to remember about Christians, Jews and Muslims is that the Christian church, long ago, stopped preaching hatred toward Jews, while the Muslim religion continues to not only preach hatred about Jews, they actively advocate killing Jews at every opportunity.

As far as I can tell, Muslims have not changed one tiny bit since the writing of the Quran.

Direct quote from the Quran (4: 89)
"They wish you would believe, as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them any allies until they immigrate for the cause of Allah. But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them where ever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper".

The above is certain not the only passage about killing Jews written in the Quran. There are dozens and dozens more.
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:mad:I say again, unless you know the meaning of the verses in the Quran, do NOT make reference. You cannot take bits out to suit your one sided way of thinking!

Here, you are talking about the Battle of Uhud ( but you do not know that, because you did not research!) Many spies who were Jewish joined the Muslim army, they converted so as to get information etc. When the Muslims lost the battle of Uhud, decisions were made on how to deal with them.

That is what this verse is about. It is about a SPECIFIC incident! If you are going to quote historical events, do the research, very important!
 
Shero said:
:mad:I say again, unless you know the meaning of the verses in the Quran, do NOT make reference. You cannot take bits out to suit your one sided way of thinking!

Here, you are talking about the Battle of Uhud ( but you do not know that, because you did not research!) Many spies who were Jewish joined the Muslim army, they converted so as to get information etc. When the Muslims lost the battle of Uhud, decisions were made on how to deal with them.

That is what this verse is about. It is about a SPECIFIC incident!
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I can say anything I bloody well chose. Don't try to give me ORDERS !
As I previously said, there are dozens and dozens of Quranic verses that talk about killing Jews wherever Jews are found.
 
There are about 1.9 billion Muslims in the worlds, and every one of them thinks they are the real muslim. Likewise, there are about 2.5 billion Christians, and every one of them thinks they are the real christian.

And who's to say that any one of them is wrong??
 
What did Mohammed have to say about the Jews ?
"Judgement day will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews, and the Jews will hide behind the rocks and trees, but the rocks and trees will say, "Oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew hiding behind me. Come and kill him".
 
senior chef said:
What did Mohammed have to say about the Jews ?
"Judgement day will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews, and the Jews will hide behind the rocks and trees, but the rocks and trees will say, "Oh Muslim, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew hiding behind me. Come and kill him".
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That's all you've got? :LOL::LOL:
There are 1.8 billion Muslims in the world. That's a lot of hate to carry on your little shoulders n’est-ce pas?
 

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