What Do Real Muslims Believe?

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I am sorry Ms Diva, you cannot in my humble opinion "beg to differ"with Lara's belief. Millions of Christians believe Jesus is the Son of God. I do not think it is correct for me to chastise them for their beliefs, same as I do not believe everythng I read about Mohammed and Islam.No one, again in my humble opinion has the right answer.

I'm afraid I will disagree with your statement. The fact that millions of Christians believe that Jesus is the Son of God does not mean that this is so. Consider that millions of Jews consider Jesus to be a "false prophet".
 

I'm afraid I will disagree with your statement. The fact that millions of Christians believe that Jesus is the Son of God does not mean that this is so. Consider that millions of Jews consider Jesus to be a "false prophet".
I did not say "it is so". I am trying to make the point that a belief is something so personal, no one has the right to say it is not so for that person. I do not follow any religion although brought up in the Christian faith. but my belief in God is strong and unwavering. End of story.
 
Muslims believe belly dancing is very wholesome pro family entertainment and is performed at weddings:




P04-201225-305.jpg
I, too, believe it to be wholesome. I began belly dancing at fifteen, danced in clubs to help pay for university. I have also danced for weddings, and other special events. Taught it also. I still dance, to maintain fitness, and to celebrate my femininity.
 

I did not say "it is so". I am trying to make the point that a belief is something so personal, no one has the right to say it is not so for that person. I do not follow any religion although brought up in the Christian faith. but my belief in God is strong and unwavering. End of story.

You are right, of course about personal beliefs. But when these beliefs are discussed in public one has the right to disagree with them, no?
 
You are right, of course about personal beliefs. But when these beliefs are discussed in public one has the right to disagree with them, no?
No, I do not think when beliefs are discussed in public one has the right to disagree, you can offer your opinion without disagreeing.

Personally, I like to hear what other people believe. Everyone has the right to think freely, and to entertain ideas based on conscientious or religious or other beliefs. If those beliefs do not harm anyone, then I see no problem.
 
No, I do not think when beliefs are discussed in public one has the right to disagree, you can offer your opinion without disagreeing.

Personally, I like to hear what other people believe. Everyone has the right to think freely, and to entertain ideas based on conscientious or religious or other beliefs. If those beliefs do not harm anyone, then I see no problem.

If you state your belief and I state mine and they differ isn't that an implied disagreement?

I like to hear what other people believe too. I choose to remain silent if I don't wish to disagree with them. If I state my opinion/belief and that happens to be different than theirs then it's clear that we disagree. Disagreement is still allowed without causing any harm or problem.
 
Years ago I read a book about Andaluçia under Morisco (Moorish rule). Sorry, cannot remember the writers name or the book's title. But I do remember that it was an interesting time and society.

Spain was always known for its great intellectuals and wise philosophers. Under the ancient Roman empire, Seneca was thought to be its most learned man, as an example. After Europe was conquered by so called "barbarians" it slept into decay leading to the Dark Ages. But Andaluçia thrived. Unlike Christian Europe, intellectual centers flourished. Medicine was advanced beyond that of the rest of the continent. Architecture was so great that Moorish architecture is still used to this day. In Europe there was a legend where a poor scholar pawned his cloak in order to buy a book he needed for his studies because tuition took up all his money. By contrast, a Muslim patron paid one dinar a month to every scholar who studied the Koran. Christians charged tuition while Muslims PAID their students! When have you seen that anywhere else? The Moors made all kinds of advancements in other matters such as irrigation, hygiene, culinary arts, maritime, etc.



article which neatly analyzes what I wrote above: THE EXTRAORDINARY INFLUENCE OF THE MOORS ON SPAIN | Adelaide Literary Magazine (adelaidemagazine.org)




So let's summarize in answer to the question: what do real Muslims believe =


✔ protecting one's brethren (they protected Jews in Spain, in Albania, and in Africa)

✔ advancing medicine & hygiene & architecture

✔ promoting commerce by improving the maritime (the Dhow was superior to Western vessels)

✔ while women did not have property rights in Europe until the 1800s, the Koran gave them property rights Sura 4, Line 36 (Rodwell translation)

✔ education centers PAID their students rather than charge tuition

✔ while European "barbarians" destroyed libraries and books in Dark Ages, libraries and centers of scholarship thrived in al-Andaluç

✔ while Westerners invaded and colonized Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, and other Muslim lands in the past 200 years, those lands never launched retaliatory invasions of the West ~ I guess that means they took Jesus's teaching of turning the other cheek very seriously which, evidently, Christians never did.

✔ and they believe belly dancing is wholesome family entertainment



Any other ideas on what real Muslims believe?
 
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I am sorry Ms Diva, you cannot in my humble opinion "beg to differ"with Lara's belief. Millions of Christians believe Jesus is the Son of God. I do not think it is correct for me to chastise them for their beliefs, same as I do not believe everythng I read about Mohammed and Islam.No one, again in my humble opinion has the right answer.
@Shero, I am confused, or you are confused or maybe it’s just me. Do you believe Jesus is God, or the Son of God? Jesus is the Son if God in my belief system. He is not God. In addition, millions of people believe that Jesus is NOT the son of God. Certainly the Jewish people do not believe that Jesus is the son.

Also, just saying, anyone can disagree with anyone else. I don’t believe anyone was chastising anyone else-we just give our own opinions on subjects. I also think at one point that Jesus was asked by someone, 😂 my memory, if he was the son of God and his response was, I think, it is you that say I am, or something like that.

I also am open to the fact that Mohammed might be the promised prophet or not. But it’s been a long time since we have had a prophet, so like many if the Jewish people think, we are still waiting for one to appear.
 
Years ago I read a book about Andaluçia under Morisco (Moorish rule). Sorry, cannot remember the writers name or the book's title. But I do remember that it was an interesting time and society.

Spain was always known for its great intellectuals and wise philosophers. Under the ancient Roman empire, Seneca was thought to be its most learned man, as an example. After Europe was conquered by so called "barbarians" it slept into decay leading to the Dark Ages. But Andaluçia thrived. Unlike Christian Europe, intellectual centers flourished. Medicine was advanced beyond that of the rest of the continent. Architecture was so great that Moorish architecture is still used to this day. In Europe there was a legend where a poor scholar pawned his cloak in order to buy a book he needed for his studies because tuition took up all his money. By contrast, a Muslim patron paid one dinar a month to every scholar who studied the Koran. Christians charged tuition while Muslims PAID their students! When have you seen that anywhere else? The Moors made all kinds of advancements in other matters such as irrigation, hygiene, culinary arts, maritime, etc.



article which neatly analyzes what I wrote above: THE EXTRAORDINARY INFLUENCE OF THE MOORS ON SPAIN | Adelaide Literary Magazine (adelaidemagazine.org)




So let's summarize in answer to the question: what do real Muslims believe =


✔ protecting one's brethren (they protected Jews in Spain, in Albania, and in Africa)

✔ advancing medicine & hygiene & architecture

✔ promoting commerce by improving the maritime (the Dhow was superior to Western vessels)

✔ while women did not have property rights in Europe until the 1800s, the Koran gave them property rights Sura 4, Line 36 (Rodwell translation)

✔ education centers PAID their students rather than charge tuition

✔ while European "barbarians" destroyed libraries and books in Dark Ages, libraries and centers of scholarship thrived in al-Andaluç

✔ while Westerners invaded and colonized Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, and other Muslim lands in the past 200 years, those lands never launched retaliatory invasions of the West ~ I guess that means they took Jesus's teaching of turning the other cheek very seriously which, evidently, Christians never did.

✔ and they believe belly dancing is wholesome family entertainment



Any other ideas on what real Muslims believe?
I wish I had gotten paid for going to Sunday school 🤦🏻‍♀️
 
I wish I had gotten paid for going to Sunday school 🤦🏻‍♀️



The theocratic government of Saudi Arabia uses its financial resources to pay students educational and living costs overseas thereby proving that Muslims still believe in paying for the education of their youth:


Saudi Arabia is among the 10 biggest sending countries of international degree-seeking students worldwide. Fully 5 percent of all Saudi tertiary students were studying abroad in 2017—a high outbound student mobility ratio by global standards sustained by extensive government funding. The Saudi government has long used its petrol dollars to send students overseas on scholarship programs in order to bridge capacity shortages at home and develop the KSA’s human capital base.


Education in Saudi Arabia (wes.org)
 
@Shero, I am confused, or you are confused or maybe it’s just me. Do you believe Jesus is God, or the Son of God? Jesus is the Son if God in my belief system. He is not God. In addition, millions of people believe that Jesus is NOT the son of God. Certainly the Jewish people do not believe that Jesus is the son.

Also, just saying, anyone can disagree with anyone else. I don’t believe anyone was chastising anyone else-we just give our own opinions on subjects. I also think at one point that Jesus was asked by someone, 😂 my memory, if he was the son of God and his response was, I think, it is you that say I am, or something like that.

I also am open to the fact that Mohammed might be the promised prophet or not. But it’s been a long time since we have had a prophet, so like many if the Jewish people think, we are still waiting for one to appear.


No (contrary to my Christian upbringing) I do not believe Jesus is God. I do not believe Jesus is the Son of God. What I do believe is no one has the right to tell anyone what to believe and if you read my post again you will see, I am referring only to myself when the word “chastise” is used.

In addition, I do not believe any Messiah is coming. I do not believe Mohammed is the last prophet on earth. I believe only in the Creator, I call God. Very simple. When anyone brings me cold hard facts, then I will give them my time.

La fin!
 
I have been very busy since I started this so I still have not had the chance to read through the entire thread and reply to everyone I'd like to reply to. Hopefully I'll be able to do so by the weekend. But in the meantime I want to thank everyone for participating in the discussion, especially those of you who understand where I'm coming and indicated that in your replies.
 
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They believe in the Koran , that there’s only one god.....and Mohammed is there only disciple.....
Not quite true Charry. Please, please, please read this which @Chris P Bacon previously posted. It gives a clear, concise explanation for what Islam is (it says for kids but it helps grown ups understand better too). @oldman This should help you with your query. And what I meant by "real Muslim" are people who really do practice Islam to the best of their ability and not use it to justify doing harm to others. Yes, there are different sects all of whom are still considered Muslims. Again, I'm not talking about extremists who are doing terrible things in the name of Islam.
Oldman, it's "funny" you mentioned how you felt when you saw mid-easterners on a plane. In the video I posted in my reply to Lara, the minister who is talking about Jesus not being white, shows a picture of what Jesus scholars concluded Jesus most probably looked like. He commented that most people likely wouldn't want to sit next to a person who looked like that.

@Shalimar I love your very true post about extremists in other religions besides Islam. People have selective memories when they decide they want to discriminate against one group of people, be it race, sexual identity or religious affiliation.

@JimBob1952 I'm no historian (in fact hated history) but it is my understanding that this goes back way farther than 25 years and that Israel stole land that rightfully belonged to Palestine, thereby displacing many Palestinians. We're talking about families with children.
@Lara @Shero @Pecos
@senior chef
 
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I think its both. Natural for us to worry about people who look a bit like the people who tend to hijack planes. I might do the same. Its just human nature.

However we need to understand rationally that such an event is extremely unlikely, probably less likely than dying in a car wreck on the way to the airport. And be careful not to let our instinctive reactions lead us to do irrational things, like discriminate against someone. Our instincts evolved in a very different world. A place where anyone we did not know was a threat and needed to be avoided or even killed. Overcoming instincts like that is what allowed for development of civilization. Shouldn't reverse that process!
Unfortunately the process of being rational and civilized was reversed a long time ago and things seem to be going backward. How many times have we heard that a Black man was arrested, beaten, even killed because he looked like he presented a threat? How many Black men, women and children have been killed by White supremacists? More than I care to count!! How many people have been beaten and killed because they were gay or trans? And of course, more recently beaten badly because they are Asian and "that fool" kept calling it "the Asian flu". Don't get me wrong. I know there are still a whole lot of good people in this world. Thank God for that!!
 
@Alligatorob You said "there have been times in history that the Muslims have offered sanctuary to the Jews, protecting them from Christians." I want to add to this. My husband once told me we have to "watch out for the Jews" He didn't mean watch out as in they are gonna get you...he meant we are supposed to protect them if necessary and help them when possible. This reminds me of a story I read a few years back. A Jewish cemetery had been badly vandalized. A group of Muslims pitched in and helped the Jewish people clean it up. This is not an isolated incident of Muslims and Jewish people working together for a common cause.
 
Oh come on mes enfants, do not fight. We all have an opinion. agree or do not agree, that is your prerogative!
Yet I saw in a reply to your comment in this thread (I haven't read through the entire thread yet). You wrote I didn't have the right to "beg to differ" with @Lara . What's odd about that is that I disagreed as a current Muslim and a former Christian who got certain knowledge from Christian ministers! In fact, Lara mis-stated (thereby misrepresented) Muslim's relationship with God and who God is. I explained that in my reply to her if you care to read it.

Despite my disagreeing with some of what you both replied, I get the sense that you are both very nice people. Can we agree on that? 🙂
 
Yet I saw in a reply to your reply in this thread. You wrote I didn't have the right to "beg to differ" with @Lara . What's odd about that is that I disagreed as a current Muslim and a former Christian who got certain knowledge from Christian ministers! In fact, Lara mis-stated (thereby misrepresented) the Islamic faith.

Despite my disagreeing with what she replied and what you've replied, I get the sense that you are both very nice people. Can we agree on that? 🙂

I am glad you think I am "nice" ma cherie. I think I am also :ROFLMAO:. If I have offended you or Lara or anyone else it is not my intention.
 
How many Black men, women and children have been killed by White supremacists?
Too many, one would be too many and I know its more than that...

I have to admit to being instinctively prejudiced, I just don't feel as comfortable around strangers who don't look like me. I wish that were not true, but I have to admit that it is. It doesn't last long once I meet a person, and I work to try and keep it from letting me take irrational actions. I remember once walking down a dark street in Washington DC and noticing two young black me "following" me. I got pretty nervous and ducked into the first open door I could find. As they walked by I could see they were harmless, just normal people. I know that had they been white I would not have reacted that way. That was 30 years ago and I still feel a bit guilty about it. Overcoming prejudice can be hard, but admitting to it is a good first step. I suspect many of us harbor some prejudices, often deeply hidden and instinctive.
 

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