What Do Real Muslims Believe?

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Alligatorob said:
That's the way I plan to join the church!

Did you know they baptized, after death, Vlad the Impaler and Adolf Hitler (https://gizmodo.com/the-time-mormons-baptized-adolf-hitler-and-vlad-the-imp-5962336 ) amongst other notables? I think any Mormon can baptize for the dead, don't need official approval.

I live in Utah in a town that is 90+% Mormon, I am the rare exception. I get on with them just fine and respect their religion, but am no Mormon.
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Yes I know; I’ve lived in Utah for more than 30 years
 
StarSong said:
.... The practice of baptizing non-Mormon dead via proxy shows a stunning arrogance.
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It does but is meaningless if you aren't Mormon. On the positive side, they are passionate about genealogy because of the practice and many online genealogical resources are Mormon owned. Doubt we'd have anywhere near the online resources if they didn't have that practice.
 
StarSong said:
The practice of baptizing non-Mormon dead via proxy shows a stunning arrogance.
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I don't know, the way I look at it they are doing what they believe is best for us. And as Anne says for non-Mormons it should be relatively meaningless. I am sure it will happen to me (or after me anyway) and am not worried about it in the least. Baptize away!

As Anne says a benefit is the genealogy work and there website (https://www.familysearch.org/en/ ). Lots of interesting info available to all at no cost.
 
Alligatorob said:
I don't know, the way I look at it they are doing what they believe is best for us. And as Anne says for non-Mormons it should be relatively meaningless. I am sure it will happen to me (or after me anyway) and am not worried about it in the least. Baptize away!

As Anne says a benefit is the genealogy work and there website (https://www.familysearch.org/en/ ). Lots of interesting info available to all at no cost.
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Well, since there is only one God-all baptisms are done in HIS name, God”s name, so your actual religion and/or personal belief system DOES NOT MATTER. GOD judges and decides everything. It is what is is.
 
Before we can discuss any religions we need to pinpoint which sect or denomination were talking about.
The Muslims have two primary groups, but many splinter groups that are extremely dangerous to
Western Civilization and the Muslim Nations.
 
helenbacque said:
My problem with the Muslim belief is simple - extreme abuse of females as in 'honor' killings and female ******* mutilation.
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Women have been abused in so many forms across so many countries and religions that your "reason" for how you feel about Muslims is a weak one. I read about many Christian ministers who sexually abused women. One in particular used to go to China, convince young girls' (usually early teens from poor families) parents that he could provide a better life in America. He and his wife then kept the girls as sex slaves. They kept one at a time. Finally a 15 year old escaped and went to the authorities. The minister and his wife were arrested. I don't recall seeing any more about how the case played out. Common sense would dictate that we realize there are evil people in the world who go against morals and the rules all the time. The Quran gave women certain rights over 1,400 years ago that women did not get in this country until the 20th century. Muslim men who go against those rights fall out of Allah's favor.

@feywon is right. Muslims follow the Quran and the Hadith (teachings) of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). In one of his last sermons he taught that the best of men were those who were good to their wives. He said (sic) that it's best to concentrate on a wife's good traits and overlook the undesirable ones. He also taught that men who had sex with their wives then bragged about it to other men were the lowest. Muslim men are instructed to help their wives with household chores, stay involved with raising the children and consult their wives before making decisions on important issues. I've also read that Muslim men should actually ask their wives' permission to leave the conjugal bed. Eg: Make sure she's satisfied... "Wham, bam, thank you ma'am" sex is not acceptable.

******* mutilation is not only performed by Muslims. This is an excerpt from Wikipedia's page on the practice. In it ******* mutilation of Christian girls in also mentioned.
"UNICEF estimated, in 2016, that 200 million women in 30 countries—Indonesia, Iraqi Kurdistan, Yemen, and 27 African countries—had been subjected to one or more types of FGM."
"There is no mention of FGM in the Bible.[v] Christian missionaries in Africa were among the first to object to FGM,[138] but Christian communities in Africa do practise it. In 2013 UNICEF identified 19 African countries in which at least 10 percent of Christian women and girls aged 15 to 49 had undergone FGM;[w] in Niger, 55 percent of Christian women and girls had experienced it, compared with two percent of their Muslim counterparts.[140] The only Jewish group known to have practised it is the Beta Israel of Ethiopia. Judaism requires male circumcision but does not allow FGM.[141] FGM is also practised by animist groups, particularly in Guinea and Mali.[131]"
 
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Don't want to write too much about my experience with LDS as Pepper might get mad at me for changing the subject while it's ok for all else.

I've been approached by young guys on bus stops seeking converts but they quickly run away from me when I challenged them to point to certain geographical spots mention in their Book of Mormon. Such spots have never been located on a map. Why? Because they do not exist. They are about as real as Bush's WMD and the little Green Men who are supposedly in the planet Mars.
 
Muslims believe belly dancing is very wholesome pro family entertainment and is performed at weddings:




P04-201225-305.jpg
 
OneEyedDiva said:
Women have been abused in so many forms across so many countries and religions that your "reason" for how you feel about Muslims is a weak one. I read about many Christian ministers who sexually abused women. One in particular used to go to China, convince a young girls (usually early teens from poor families) that he could provide a better life in America. He and his wife then kept the girls as sex slaves. They kept one at a time. Finally a 15 year old finally escaped and went to the authorities. The minister and his wife were arrested. I don't recall seeing any more about how the case played out. Common sense would dictate that we realize there are evil people in the world who go against morals and the rules all the time. The Quran gave women certain rights over 1,400 years ago that women did not get in this country until the 20th century. Muslim men who go against those rights fall out of Allah's favor.

@feywon is right. Muslims follow the Quran and the Hadith (teachings) of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). In one of his last sermons he taught that the best of men were those who were good to their wives. He said (sic) that it's best to concentrate on a wife's good traits and overlook the undesirable ones. He also taught that men who had sex with their wives then bragged about it to other men were the lowest. Muslim men are instructed to help their wives with household chores, stay involved with raising the children and consult their wives before making decisions on important issues. I've also read that Muslim men should actually ask their wives' permission to leave the conjugal bed. Eg: Make sure she's satisfied... "Wham, bam, thank you ma'am" sex is not acceptable.

******* mutilation is not only performed by Muslims. This is an excerpt from Wikipedia's page on the practice. In it ******* mutilation of Christian girls in also mentioned.
"UNICEF estimated, in 2016, that 200 million women in 30 countries—Indonesia, Iraqi Kurdistan, Yemen, and 27 African countries—had been subjected to one or more types of FGM."
"There is no mention of FGM in the Bible.[v] Christian missionaries in Africa were among the first to object to FGM,[138] but Christian communities in Africa do practise it. In 2013 UNICEF identified 19 African countries in which at least 10 percent of Christian women and girls aged 15 to 49 had undergone FGM;[w] in Niger, 55 percent of Christian women and girls had experienced it, compared with two percent of their Muslim counterparts.[140] The only Jewish group known to have practised it is the Beta Israel of Ethiopia. Judaism requires male circumcision but does not allow FGM.[141] FGM is also practised by animist groups, particularly in Guinea and Mali.[131]"
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Quoted for truth
 
During World War II the fascists invaded and occupied Northern Africa (Morocco, Algeria, Libya, Egypt) ~ lands which historically had significant Jewish populations. Yet, there were no massive removals or extermination of Jews unlike Europe. Have you ever wondered why? Well, consider the fact that the majority populations in those countries were Muslim who harbored certain beliefs such as protecting your brothers. That may possibly provide an answer.
 
oldiebutgoody said:
During World War II the fascists invaded and occupied Northern Africa (Morocco, Algeria, Libya, Egypt) ~ lands which historically had significant Jewish populations. Yet, there were no massive removals or extermination of Jews unlike Europe. Have you ever wondered why? Well, consider the fact that the majority populations in those countries were Muslim who harbored certain beliefs such as protecting your brothers. That may possibly provide an answer.
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Interesting, do you know if it is true? I don't think Rommel or the Italians bought into the Nazi atrocities so much.

Do you know how those Jewish populations have faired since the war?
 
Alligatorob said:
Interesting, do you know if it is true? I don't think Rommel or the Italians bought into the Nazi atrocities so much.

Do you know how those Jewish populations have faired since the war?
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Many left, not because of any post war persecution but because they were offered citizenship, free land, subsidies, and other forms of socialist reliefs by the Israeli government.
 
Lara said:
Allah and God are not really the same.
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Lara...I beg to differ. Jesus is not God. Consider the following: A Christian minister did a sermon 20 years or more ago that really struck me. The title of the sermon was "Is Jesus The Son of God?" In it he relayed the story of Jesus being called before a council head who was determined to get something he could use to persecute Jesus with. So he asked Jesus if (sic) he wanted people to worship him. He asked the question three times. Each time Jesus responded with wording like No. I am not worthy of worship. Did Jesus tell his followers to worship him or worship as he worshipped? Did Jesus worship himself? I think not. The minister also explained that due to the difference in how language was expressed back then and now, the word was not Son but Sun, as in "the light" or lighting the way.
Lara said:
God and Jesus Christ are One, with whom one can develop a relationship with Christ as one's Savior from sin.
Jesus Christ is significant in the Christian profile.
I grew up in the church as I mentioned before. Went to Sunday school, the sat through Sunday services every Sunday. Our woship was not focused on Jesus but on God Almighty, the creator. In fact, I didn't find out that some Christians (many I guess) focus their worship on Jesus until my BFF and I were talking religion one evening (I was still Christian then) and she mentioned it. I was very surprised! Another thing I want to address about Jesus. The pictures and likenesses of Jesus hanging in most churches is inaccurate. Revelations describes Jesus thusly:
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"In Revelation 1:14-15 we are given a description of Jesus as He looked to the writer in His vision. It reads, "The hairs of his head were white, like white wool, like snow. His eyes were like a flame of fire, his feet were like burnished bronze, refined in a furnace, and his voice was like the roar of many waters." This passage describes the resurrected Jesus with head and hair that are white or perhaps glowing, along with eyes like fire. His bronze feet and loud voice complete the picture of a majestic, powerful Jesus who has conquered death and the grave."

Furthermore religious scholars have concluded that Jesus was not White and certainly didn't have long, straight hair as depicted in many churches. Here is an article in which The Archbishop of Cantebury weighs in on the misconception.
https://premierchristian.news/en/ne...t-s-important-we-remember-jesus-was-not-white
And in the video below, the minister presents what he says is what Jesus scholars came up with about Jesus' likely appearance. He starts out joking around but gets to it around 4:02. His presentation supports the view the archbishop presented. What else in Christianity has been misrepresented all these centuries?

Lara said:
Allah is apart from Christ. Muslims don't believe Christ as Savior nor God. I'm not certain but I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that there is no personal relationship between Muslims and Allah. Christ is the bridge between Christians and God for developing a personal relationship.
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Allah means God, not Jesus. Muslims believe Jesus was a great prophet and he is revered along with other great Prophets of the Bible. In fact, he is referred to in the Quran as The Messiah. Muslims have a saying. "There are no intercessors" between us and God....no go betweens. Also "Worship the Creator, not the creation" Another question: If you believe that God created the heavens and earth...how could he be a man who was born of woman after creation? Muslims literally pray directly to God, the Creator. The most devout Muslims pray 5, maybe 6 times a day. 5 prayers are obligatory, the 6th is not. So we do indeed have a very personal relationship with God. I admit I do not make my 5 prayers but I do have a very personal relationship with Him. Muslims give thanks to God for many little things people may go about their day taking for granted.
Lara said:
Fact: There are good and bad people in all groups, everywhere, in every era of time since Satan entered the Garden of Eden.
So blame and cultural stereotyping is just ignorant. As comedian Bob Newhart (age 91) once said, "Stop it. Just stop it."😊
This is one thing you and I certainly agree on!

I respect all good people from other religions that don't agree with my religion. God says love one another. And I do.
I have some serious issues with parts of the Quran that are currently obeyed in the world...but the good followers of the Quran may also.
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I believe people who observe and practice their religions have things they question and maybe aren't comfortable with. I know I did when I was Christian and do now. We especially need to remember these books and practices were written way before our time and it was a different world back then. One last point about Jesus. He said another Prophet would come after him.
"Jesus, according to the Gospel of John, promised that another prophet would come after him who would speak the words God gave him to speak, and fully make known God’s truth. I, and muslims in general, recognize the fulfillment of this promise in Muhammad."

And re: your reply to @Warrigal "I think what Diva meant by "real Muslims" is that the true followers of Muslim, that she knows, are peaceful and not terrorists." Exactly! Thank you. :)

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OneEyedDiva said:
Lara...I beg to differ. Jesus is not God.












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I am sorry Ms Diva, you cannot in my humble opinion "beg to differ"with Lara's belief. Millions of Christians believe Jesus is the Son of God. I do not think it is correct for me to chastise them for their beliefs, same as I do not believe everythng I read about Mohammed and Islam.No one, again in my humble opinion has the right answer.
 
Oris Borloff said:
@OneEyedDiva ,

I'm curious to what attracted you to Islam from Christianity? Was it just a "better fit"? If you already have addressed this somewhere and care to redirect me I'd appreciate that. If you don't care to answer or simply can't answer it in a few sentences, that's understandable.

Interesting to read the thread, thank you.
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I'm happy to answer Oris. I wouldn't be surprised if others want to know the answer. Long story short, after attending Sunday school and church services every Sunday since I was a child (of course no Sunday school after adulthood), I became disenchanted with what I was hearing and felt I wan't learning much. The services even seemed redundant to me. I met a Muslim man (who eventually became my husband) who had a store in town and was only one of two Muslims I knew of. He eventually invited me and my son (who had already started studying Islam) to go to an Islamic lecture at Rutgers University. I was impressed with what I heard and the whole vibe. I felt it was really a learning experience. I purchased a couple of Islamic books from a vendor there. I went with this man and two of his workers to another lecture and enjoyed that as well.

Not long after, it was clear that we were interested in one another. In fact a few years before that, a mutual friend tried his best to get us together. This Muslim man said he would prefer to have a Muslim wife and I told him I wouldn't make such a commitment (to become Muslim) until I felt I was ready. It took me a while to accept his proposal as well. Truthfully, I never thought I'd marry again. I had already stopped eating pork, I didn't drink alcohol anymore (which I only did socially) and I never smoked. He couldn't believe it...he really thought I was putting him on. Besides that Muslims are charitable people and I am that as well. I liked the peacefulness I felt in the environment with Muslims. I liked the way women were showed respect amongst the men and I always felt safe around Muslims. I read the books, including parts of the Quran he had given me. I actually felt I was ready about three years later when I was sitting at my Uncle's funeral in Baltimore and the words the minister was saying bordered on sounding ridiculous to me. I left there knowing in my heart I was ready to accept Islam. A little while afterward, we got married and I took my Shahada (declaration of faith) on the same day.
 

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