What is socialism?

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Marxist/Socialism??

Let's see:

Universal health care ~ Ben Franklin & Thomas Jefferson

Free college ~ Franklin & Jefferson

Infrastructural building ~ Washington (letters on the Potomac) & Alexander Hamilton "Report on Manufactures" (1791)

Social Security & UBI ~ Thomas Paine "Agrarian Reform" (1795)



Right wing delusionals call anyone who believes in these things "socialists" and "Marxists". This despite the fact that it was our own Founding Fathers who advocated them decades before Marx was born.
 

Chris Bacon stated; "I'd say. It's like defining what is pornography, I know it when I see it but you may not see it the same way as I do."

I think it's time to post some and we can study it and then offer our opinions - - - -without offending anyone, of course.

OK Chris - - -anytime!!o_O
 
DaveA said:
Chris Bacon stated; "I'd say. It's like defining what is pornography, I know it when I see it but you may not see it the same way as I do."

I think it's time to post some and we can study it and then offer our opinions - - - -without offending anyone, of course.

OK Chris - - -anytime!!o_O
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Okay, is a minimum wage socialism? If so, under what definition?
 
Chet said:
I always understood it to be what was manifested in the USSR and Mao's China; absolute government control, which failed by the way.
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IMO that is totalitarianism masquerading as socialism.

Let's not forget that what might be called socialism has public benefit. Before there were public schools, the wealthy employed private tutors for their children, the middle classes sent them to Dame schools where they learnt very little beyond elementary literacy and numeracy. The poor sent them to the mines and factories. Public schooling has produced opportunities for more children to achieve their potential, which must surely be valuable to the economy as a whole.
 
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Irwin said:
Okay, is a minimum wage socialism? If so, under what definition?
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Minimum wage is biblical which means it is not of socialist origin. See Matthew 8:20 et seq where farm workers were to be paid one denarius which is defined as:


denarius
[dəˈnerēəs]

NOUN
an ancient Roman silver coin, originally worth ten asses.
a unit of weight equal to that of a silver denarius.
an ancient Roman gold coin worth 25 silver denarii.



Wow - the equivalent of ten asses for one hour's work. Had I lived in that era, I would sell 9 of them for cash, use one for general labor, and live off the profits and from other wages.


Too bad corporate capitalists don't believe in their own Bible and pay decent living wages to their poor employees.
 
Socialized medical in Australia

Every Australian is eligible for Medicare — the country's national universal health care program — and can receive medical care at public hospitals and other health care providers, usually with no out-of-pocket costs except for outpatient prescription drugs and some auxiliary services.

One of my daughters decided to go private for her first child (very expensive), but went public for the second child which cost her nothing. This scenario plays out every day here and this article about two sisters explains it better.

Two sisters. Two different journeys through Australia’s health care system. One sister had her babies for free, the other decided to go private and it cost her $5,000

https://www.vox.com/2020/1/15/21030568/australia-health-insurance-medicare
 
Here's a story about a large cooperative in the Basque region of Spain that consists of 255 businesses, all run by its more than 70,000 employees. I guess that would be "public" ownership of production, but not by the government so technically, it's not socialistic. In it, instead of managers hiring and firing employees, employees vote for who will manage them. To enter the coop, you have to buy into it and it's not cheap. 15,000 Euros in one of the cases they talk about.

The concept of the cooperative may conjure notions of hippie socialism, limiting its value as a model for the global economy, but Mondragón stands out as a genuinely large enterprise. Its cooperatives employ more than 70,000 people in Spain, making it one of the nation’s largest sources of paychecks. They have annual revenues of more than 12 billion euros ($14.5 billion). The group includes one of the country’s largest grocery chains, Eroski, along with a credit union and manufacturers that export their wares around the planet.​
 
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Don't take life too seriously as no one has ever gotten out alive. - Plutonius of Carpathia
 
DaveA said:
Irwin - -What the h--l does the minimum wage and socialism have to do with my post regarding pornography? LOL
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I thought you were saying that you knew socialism when you saw it (like you knew porn when you saw it). If that's not the case, what does your post about pornography have to do with socialism, which is the topic of this thread?
 
Irwin said:
I thought you were saying that you knew socialism when you saw it (like you knew porn when you saw it). If that's not the case, what does your post about pornography have to do with socialism, which is the topic of this thread?
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@Irwin - Actually, I'm the one who made the comment about "knowing it when I see it". I think that Irwin was commenting to me that he might like to see what I see as being pornographic. His comment was directed at me. I apologize for any confusion I may have caused. It was never my intent to ruffle anyone's feathers. I'll refrain from commenting further on this topic. Enjoy your discussion.
 
Chris P Bacon said:
@Irwin - Actually, I'm the one who made the comment about "knowing it when I see it". I think that Irwin was commenting to me that he might like to see what I see as being pornographic. His comment was directed at me. I apologize for any confusion I may have caused. It was never my intent to ruffle anyone's feathers. I'll refrain from commenting further on this topic. Enjoy your discussion.
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I enjoyed your bit of humor, Chris, and tried to pick up on it. Guess my humor was misplaced.
 
This is what our current system has given us:

There are more than 66 thousand homeless people living in Los Angeles. In Denver, the park across from the state capital has been completely overrun by the homeless. Many other major cities in the U.S. have a similar problem. It's a completely out of control situation.

Part of the problem is a lack of affordable housing. The average rent for a one bedroom apartment in Denver is $1,724! Holy crap! If you're making $15 an hour, 2/3 of your income would need to go to your rent. You'd have about $833 left each month for all your other bills including car payments, utilities, food, clothing, insurance. You might be able to just barely make it if you didn't spend anything on entertainment, and if you needed medical care, that would put you over the top. Of course, that's how it was when I was working class back in the 1980s, so maybe things aren't that different now, but we sure as hell didn't have that kind of homeless problem back then.
 
Irwin said:
lack of affordable housing
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There are many abandoned military bases all over the USA. Each and every one can readily be converted into a homeless shelter city and house tens of thousands of people. Let the churches such as Catholic Charities and Salvation Army run them tax free and the problem is largely solved.
 
the list is only somewhat dated but it's still largely true as European socialists are the happiest people in the world:


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Even Israel is ranked higher than the USA and that's because its socialist economy is financed by American taxpayers.
 
oldiebutgoody said:
Even Israel is ranked higher than the USA and that's because its socialist economy is financed by American taxpayers.
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Israel has a market based, capitalistic economy with the exception of their kibbutzim, which is only a small portion of their economy.

The only financing the U.S. provides to Israel is in the form of arms, which comes to several billions of dollars worth each year, but that's it. We don't in any way finance their economy—just their military.
 
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Irwin said:
Israel has a market based, capitalistic economy with the exception of their kibbutzim, which is only a small portion of their economy.

The only financing the U.S. provides to Israel is in the form of arms, which comes to several billions of dollars worth each year, but that's it. We don't in any way finance their economy—just their military.
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Without the multibillion dollar handouts it gets every year from the USA, the economy and military would both collapse. Good bye to health care and to the government. Thankfully (for them) they get the socialist handouts to keep them going.
 
Irwin said:
Israel has a market based, capitalistic economy with the exception of their kibbutzim, which is only a small portion of their economy.

The only financing the U.S. provides to Israel is in the form of arms, which comes to several billions of dollars worth each year, but that's it. We don't in any way finance their economy—just their military.
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Do you really have credible information that the U.S. "finances" the Israel military, or does the U.S. simply supply/SELL military resources to Israel, because that was my understanding.
 

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