RadishRose
SF VIP
- Location
- Connecticut, USA
I heard he lost it in a poker game.
Lorena Bobbit was dealing.
Lorena Bobbit was dealing.
Who is God the Father? Zeus, Jupiter, Thor, the great “I AM”, or the man in the moon
- Thread starter Aneeda72
- Start date
:lofl:
There ya go now I gotta go look up this guy.....
Was this picture "taken" before or after the poker game?:lofl:
Falcon
DV8
- Location
- So. California
:lol1:
fuzzybuddy
SF VIP
- Location
- The Sticks, Northeast PA.
The reason for banning religion form this forum is that I don't want to be proselytized by an over religious Christian, who assumes that any other belief is to be ridiculed and discounted. If you want to discuss your personal Christian beliefs there is a section to do so. The fact that some keep putting articles of faith in the secular sections is affront to those who are do not share your veiled attemps at proselytizing, and belittling me and my beliefs.
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
My eyes aren't functioning too well at the moment and I haven't taken the time to read this whole thread.
Apologies if I am totally out of step with the discussion. What follows are my own thoughts.
Pre the common era, the gods were either powerful deities that needed to be appeased lest they take their revenge or they were lesser spirits to whom people could pray for help. Gods were located in their own spaces. There were the household gods and the woodland gods, gods of the sea and the sky and so many that people felt sometimes that they needed to selectively worship the one(s) that might be most profitable as protector. Cults, as in the cult of ISIS, Zeus, Poseidon, Hera etc were supported with temples and rituals.
The ancient Hebrews were a wandering people, crossing the land with their flocks looking for good pastures. Somewhere in this fluid time the idea of a single creator god arose, a god that created the land, sea and sky and all creatures found in this realm. This god seemed close on the tops of mountains but was mostly a terrifying presence, judging humanity, giving and taking on a grand scale. His name was a secret, to look upon him was death. A set of rules (the Law) developed (or adopted - Hammurabi?) to allow humanity to coexist with the deity without causing relentless punishment. The Law is still the foundation of Jewish religious practice.
The idea of God the Father seems to have caught on (it may have been there earlier in some cults) in Jesus' time. He encouraged his followers to pray using the word Abba which in Aramaic is very similar to Daddy. It is a term used in families, not temples. It certainly strengthened his message of acceptance and love of all because if we are all children of the creator god, then we are all one family - the family of man and all connected to each other. The parable of the prodigal son depicts God as a loving and forgiving father who does not punish his sinful son. Contrast this idea with the earlier image of a god who wipes out armies and kings and who destroys sinners on a grand scale.
Later, Jesus followers extended this idea to accommodate the idea of a creator god, a god who is both companion and friend and an invisible presence in all things. The result was the rather incomprehensible idea of a triune god which we call the Trinity. As far as I know, this is a concept unique to Christianity.
I am a follower of The Way which means that I try to model my behaviour towards my fellow man on the teachings of Jesus. I am not a great prayer but like the ancient Hebrews, when I do feel the need to pray, the location is irrelevant. I need no mountain top, no temple, no cathedral nor any church building. How do I address the deity? It hardly matters. I can say Loving God or Our Father or Spirit of God or Sweet Jesus but it is the image in my head that helps me to pray. If I see God as a companion walking with me on my life's journey I may appeal or share my thoughts with Jesus. If I am feeling bad about myself for something I have done or not done, if I am ashamed of myself I may seek solace, forgiveness and strength to do better from Father God. I have no idea how prayer works to benefit us personally or collectively but Jesus encouraged it, and as I said above, I am a follower of his teachings. This is where faith steps in to fill a lack of understanding. That said, when I have asked for a fish, I have never been given a snake.
People of faith have very different images of deity that they find helpful. Some have no need of such images at all.
If the goal is to find a way to live a morally good life then I suppose the test we must apply is does the image assist us to achieve our goal.
Apologies if I am totally out of step with the discussion. What follows are my own thoughts.
Pre the common era, the gods were either powerful deities that needed to be appeased lest they take their revenge or they were lesser spirits to whom people could pray for help. Gods were located in their own spaces. There were the household gods and the woodland gods, gods of the sea and the sky and so many that people felt sometimes that they needed to selectively worship the one(s) that might be most profitable as protector. Cults, as in the cult of ISIS, Zeus, Poseidon, Hera etc were supported with temples and rituals.
The ancient Hebrews were a wandering people, crossing the land with their flocks looking for good pastures. Somewhere in this fluid time the idea of a single creator god arose, a god that created the land, sea and sky and all creatures found in this realm. This god seemed close on the tops of mountains but was mostly a terrifying presence, judging humanity, giving and taking on a grand scale. His name was a secret, to look upon him was death. A set of rules (the Law) developed (or adopted - Hammurabi?) to allow humanity to coexist with the deity without causing relentless punishment. The Law is still the foundation of Jewish religious practice.
The idea of God the Father seems to have caught on (it may have been there earlier in some cults) in Jesus' time. He encouraged his followers to pray using the word Abba which in Aramaic is very similar to Daddy. It is a term used in families, not temples. It certainly strengthened his message of acceptance and love of all because if we are all children of the creator god, then we are all one family - the family of man and all connected to each other. The parable of the prodigal son depicts God as a loving and forgiving father who does not punish his sinful son. Contrast this idea with the earlier image of a god who wipes out armies and kings and who destroys sinners on a grand scale.
Later, Jesus followers extended this idea to accommodate the idea of a creator god, a god who is both companion and friend and an invisible presence in all things. The result was the rather incomprehensible idea of a triune god which we call the Trinity. As far as I know, this is a concept unique to Christianity.
I am a follower of The Way which means that I try to model my behaviour towards my fellow man on the teachings of Jesus. I am not a great prayer but like the ancient Hebrews, when I do feel the need to pray, the location is irrelevant. I need no mountain top, no temple, no cathedral nor any church building. How do I address the deity? It hardly matters. I can say Loving God or Our Father or Spirit of God or Sweet Jesus but it is the image in my head that helps me to pray. If I see God as a companion walking with me on my life's journey I may appeal or share my thoughts with Jesus. If I am feeling bad about myself for something I have done or not done, if I am ashamed of myself I may seek solace, forgiveness and strength to do better from Father God. I have no idea how prayer works to benefit us personally or collectively but Jesus encouraged it, and as I said above, I am a follower of his teachings. This is where faith steps in to fill a lack of understanding. That said, when I have asked for a fish, I have never been given a snake.
People of faith have very different images of deity that they find helpful. Some have no need of such images at all.
If the goal is to find a way to live a morally good life then I suppose the test we must apply is does the image assist us to achieve our goal.
fuzzybuddy
SF VIP
- Location
- The Sticks, Northeast PA.
Bgcdcgfv
:lol1:
I was saying that I didn't see it in this thread..I'm not saying you have never been.
Have you ever heard that God is the Father, the Son and The Holy Spirit?
How complicated is that for a believer?
If your waiting for a deity to intervene and perform a miracle in your life..you are asking for proof...Which has nothing to do with having faith.
fuzzybuddy
SF VIP
- Location
- The Sticks, Northeast PA.
Seeker, I have respect for your religious beliefs. As I have said, in the forum for years, is no ones religious ideation is more valid or better in any way. than anyone elses. So, explain to me why there are threads in this forum, which proselytized Christianity, under the guise of religious discussions. Ya know maybe I don't want to read about god's one true son Jesus Christ. The WAY. ETC, ETC, Nor do I want to believe in Mary, or any Christian icons. I don't have to hear about the "momentous" events of Easter" I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN!!!!! What gives Christians the right to babble on about the tenets of their religion? And why am I supposed to believe in only one god? Furthermore I don't want to be called a sinner. This forum is not a Christian Sunday school.
And when atheists talk about religion, there get the very "Christian" response of shut up, go away, " if you feel offended don't read it".
Seeker, I have respect for your religious beliefs. As I have said, in the forum for years, is no ones religious ideation is more valid or better in any way. than anyone elses. So, explain to me why there are threads in this forum, which proselytized Christianity, under the guise of religious discussions. Ya know maybe I don't want to read about god's one true son Jesus Christ. The WAY. ETC, ETC, Nor do I want to believe in Mary, or any Christian icons. I don't have to hear about the "momentous" events of Easter" I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN!!!!! What gives Christians the right to babble on about the tenets of their religion? And why am I supposed to believe in only one god? Furthermore I don't want to be called a sinner. This forum is not a Christian Sunday school.
And when atheists talk about religion, there get the very "Christian" response of shut up, go away, " if you feel offended don't read it".
I appreciate that you have respect for my beliefs..although I don’t consider them religious…
I am in no way prosecuting you for your beliefs..We all have free will. Most times we prosecute ourselves.
If you don’t want to read about God’s son then you don’t have to, but if you do and strike up a conversation then you are there…
Christians have the same rights as anyone else to post. Color me stupid but I have yet to find a thread that an Atheist was shut down because they professed to be so.
Why would be being called a sinner bother you if you don’t believe?
I’m not asking you to shut up and go away..Actually I’m enjoying our conversation…
Capt Lightning
Well-known Member
- Location
- Historic Buchan, Scotland
I've often thought one of the best and passionate responses to this came from Stephen Fry in an interview on Irish TV.
The following is a transcription of a notably controversial passage of dialogue from Gay Byrne's interview on Irish TV, specifically from an episode of a 'The Meaning of Life' series, where Stephen Fry was the guest of the day.
It was uploaded to Youtube by the Irish public service televion RTÉ, and received more than two million on-line viewings, prior to actual broadcasting on Sunday, 1 February 2015.
Gay Byrne:
... suppose it's all true and you walk up to the pearly gates and you are confronted by God. What would Stephen Fry say to him, her or it?
(Although not present on the Youtube clip from Irish TV it is, perhaps, interesting that the dialogue continues with the following sentence):-
The following is a transcription of a notably controversial passage of dialogue from Gay Byrne's interview on Irish TV, specifically from an episode of a 'The Meaning of Life' series, where Stephen Fry was the guest of the day.
It was uploaded to Youtube by the Irish public service televion RTÉ, and received more than two million on-line viewings, prior to actual broadcasting on Sunday, 1 February 2015.
Gay Byrne:
... suppose it's all true and you walk up to the pearly gates and you are confronted by God. What would Stephen Fry say to him, her or it?
Stephen Fry:
I will basically (it's known as theodicy I think) I'll say, "Bone cancer in children? What's that about? How dare you! How dare you create a world where there is such misery that is not our fault! It's not right. It is utterly, utterly evil. Why should I respect a capricious, mean-minded, stupid god who creates a world that is so full of injustice and pain. That's what I'd say.
And you think you're going to get in?I will basically (it's known as theodicy I think) I'll say, "Bone cancer in children? What's that about? How dare you! How dare you create a world where there is such misery that is not our fault! It's not right. It is utterly, utterly evil. Why should I respect a capricious, mean-minded, stupid god who creates a world that is so full of injustice and pain. That's what I'd say.
Oh, but I wouldn't want to. I wouldn't want to get in on his terms. They're wrong.
Now, if I died and it was Pluto, Hades and if it were the twelve Greek gods, then I'd have more truck with it because the Greeks didn't pretend not to be human in their appetites, and in their capriciousness and their unreasonableness; they didn't present themselves as being all-seeing, all-wise, all-kind, all-munificent; because the god who created this universe (if it was created by God) is, quite clearly, a maniac - utter maniac, totally selfish.
We have to spend our life on our knees thanking him? What kind of god would do that?
Yes, the world is very splendid, but it also has in it insects whose whole life-cycle is to burrow into the eyes of children and make them blind. They eat outwards from the eyes. Why did you do that? Why? Why did you do that to us? You could easily have made a creation where that didn't exist. It is simply not acceptable.
So, you know, atheism is not just about not believing there's a god - but, on the assumption there is one, what kind of god is it? It's perfectly apparent that he is monstrous, utterly monstrous, and deserves no respect whatsoever. The moment you banish him your life becomes simpler, purer, cleaner - more worth living in my opinion.
That sure is the longest answer to that question I've ever had in this entire series. Thank you so much Stephen. Now, if I died and it was Pluto, Hades and if it were the twelve Greek gods, then I'd have more truck with it because the Greeks didn't pretend not to be human in their appetites, and in their capriciousness and their unreasonableness; they didn't present themselves as being all-seeing, all-wise, all-kind, all-munificent; because the god who created this universe (if it was created by God) is, quite clearly, a maniac - utter maniac, totally selfish.
We have to spend our life on our knees thanking him? What kind of god would do that?
Yes, the world is very splendid, but it also has in it insects whose whole life-cycle is to burrow into the eyes of children and make them blind. They eat outwards from the eyes. Why did you do that? Why? Why did you do that to us? You could easily have made a creation where that didn't exist. It is simply not acceptable.
So, you know, atheism is not just about not believing there's a god - but, on the assumption there is one, what kind of god is it? It's perfectly apparent that he is monstrous, utterly monstrous, and deserves no respect whatsoever. The moment you banish him your life becomes simpler, purer, cleaner - more worth living in my opinion.
(Although not present on the Youtube clip from Irish TV it is, perhaps, interesting that the dialogue continues with the following sentence):-
Well, there wasn't a thunderbolt was there?
Perhaps a more measured response was from Sir David Attenborough.
Perhaps a more measured response was from Sir David Attenborough.
“Every society in the world has found it necessary to produce a story to account for the fact that humanity is on earth,” he said. “The Australian Aboriginals think that the first humans were regurgitated by a great rainbow serpent in the sky, the people in Thailand think the beginning of the world was a huge pool of milk and a snake was pulled by demons, and the milk coagulated and that formed human beings; and there was a time, two and a half to three thousand years ago, when people on the east end of the Mediterranean thought woman was made from the rib of the first man.
“If somebody says to me I believe every word of the Bible is true, you can’t argue against that degree of irrationality… there is actually a way of looking at the natural world and seeing the evidence and it’s all there. And what’s more it’s the same evidence whether it’s in Australia or Northern Europe or wherever. It’s all the same — it all produces the same answer and you can all see the evidence — if you reject that then there’s nothing I can say.”
“If somebody says to me I believe every word of the Bible is true, you can’t argue against that degree of irrationality… there is actually a way of looking at the natural world and seeing the evidence and it’s all there. And what’s more it’s the same evidence whether it’s in Australia or Northern Europe or wherever. It’s all the same — it all produces the same answer and you can all see the evidence — if you reject that then there’s nothing I can say.”
Lara
Friend of the Arts
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic Coast
This forum is called "Hot Topics" so it seems like an appropriate place for this thread since there isn't a forum called "Articles of Faith".
The fact that you feel belittled for your beliefs here is unfortunate but it's not really about you. It's about a group of members seeking the truth. Do you feel ridiculed if someone is genuinely curious as to how an atheist might answer questions like, "what do you do with your guilt?", "where did the universe come from?" and "can you prove there is no God?".
I Peter 3:15 says "Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect." No one gets argued into heaven so the conversation is best left up to God.
Personally, I believe in God, the creator of all things. If by some bizarre chance I'm wrong then I've lost nothing. In fact I've gained because at least it made me a happier person on many levels. On the flip side, if a non-believer is wrong then they lose everything. They lose any future beyond this world and apart from God. I would never ever ever want to chance that.
It's not out of fear that I believe though. I believe because of the joy and peace God has given me. And because of the things God has taken me through. I wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for my faith in God.
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Aneeda72
Well-known Member
I have not heard of followers of “The Way”, but Warrigal’s description of it seems very in line with my personal belief system so thanks for posting the information. At some point in time, I’ll have to learn more about this, but I am never in a rush to do anything.
I see no one proselytizing their religion especially since the thread is not about religion. Talking about one’s belief is not proselytizing, no one is attempting to turn anyone into a Christian or any other religion. No one is trying to get anyone else to believe in a deity called God. God forbid that should happen, lol. Believe or don’t believe, up to you.
Eat your veggies or don’t. No one, on this forum, is going to pick up a green bean and started forcing it into your mouth. We might talk about green beans, we might love green beans, we might grow green beans, we might sell green beans. But, if someone doesn’t like green beans, we might suggest that someone leave the green bean discussion to those that do like green beans; and want to discuss how many varieties of green beans there are.
The off topic comments widen the discussion and that’s great. It makes us think. This isn’t a Sunday school of 8 year olds. It’s a senior forum of older folk who are growing closer, every day, to finding the answers we have sought our entire lives. The discussion might bring some comfort and greater understanding to others. Or it might not.
There is NO HARM being done here. There is no need to be defensive about anyone’s beliefs or non-beliefs.
I see no one proselytizing their religion especially since the thread is not about religion. Talking about one’s belief is not proselytizing, no one is attempting to turn anyone into a Christian or any other religion. No one is trying to get anyone else to believe in a deity called God. God forbid that should happen, lol. Believe or don’t believe, up to you.
Eat your veggies or don’t. No one, on this forum, is going to pick up a green bean and started forcing it into your mouth. We might talk about green beans, we might love green beans, we might grow green beans, we might sell green beans. But, if someone doesn’t like green beans, we might suggest that someone leave the green bean discussion to those that do like green beans; and want to discuss how many varieties of green beans there are.
The off topic comments widen the discussion and that’s great. It makes us think. This isn’t a Sunday school of 8 year olds. It’s a senior forum of older folk who are growing closer, every day, to finding the answers we have sought our entire lives. The discussion might bring some comfort and greater understanding to others. Or it might not.
There is NO HARM being done here. There is no need to be defensive about anyone’s beliefs or non-beliefs.
Warrigal
SF VIP
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
Aneeda, Christianity did not spring fully formed from the base of the Cross. It began as a movement within Judaism when Jewish followers of Jesus referred to themselves as 'The Way' probably coming from Isaiah 40:3, "prepare the way of the Lord." The word Christian was first recorded around 100AD in Antioch (modern Turkey).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_early_Christianity
A modern comparison would be the emergence of Methodism from within the Church of England. The Wesley brothers developed a simple 'method' of living out their Christian faith and attracted other worshipers and converts to them. This holiness movement within the English church became known as the Methodists. It was a much simpler, stripped down version of Christianity without a lot of the pomp that had accumulated and in time, just as the early disciples of Jesus became separate from their Jewish roots, so too the Methodists left the traditional structures of Anglicanism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_early_Christianity
A modern comparison would be the emergence of Methodism from within the Church of England. The Wesley brothers developed a simple 'method' of living out their Christian faith and attracted other worshipers and converts to them. This holiness movement within the English church became known as the Methodists. It was a much simpler, stripped down version of Christianity without a lot of the pomp that had accumulated and in time, just as the early disciples of Jesus became separate from their Jewish roots, so too the Methodists left the traditional structures of Anglicanism.
You're right. It's safer for an observer to let these games play out and not get involved. If I talked about the problems religion causes, the religious might say I'm persecuting them. People who take advantage of the religious might say I'm persecuting them.
BTW, on what island are we meeting for cocktails today?
Aneeda72
Well-known Member
Warrigal,
I read the article, not a deep read, but I read it, so thanks. It was interesting. I didn’t realize how many “split offs” there were from the Jewish faith in early times, or that some of those split offsdied out early. (I also remember hearing the Isaiah quote from my younger days.)
Our family, through my mother, is of Irish decent. I often wondered if that had some vague influence on why I decided to be baptized catholic instead of southern Baptist except for my great respect of Mother Mary and the role she played. I have never been able to overcome some of my early Baptist beliefs which I keep solely to myself. I view those beliefs as rather too harsh for today’s world. They were probably too harsh for yesterday’s world. This is my opinion, not a judgement.
The Jewish faith, or race, interest me as (as other wandering races such as Gypsies) in a limited way. I’ve never understood if early wandering people were a religious group, a race, or both. I still don’t know. I am speaking historically. I know the Jewish people believed in the God of the Old Testament. What early god did Gypsies believe in?
My family stories indicated that some German Jews, through my father’s line, were in our genealogy. Interestingly enough, my nephew, raised Christian, married a Jewish woman and converted to the Jewish faith. His children are, of course, Jewish. I often think the children, grandchildren of farmers are drawn to the land even if they have never seen or been on a farm.
American Indians have close ties to the land as well. I love to raise veggies, flowers, work in the dirt. Is this a product of my grandparents being farmers? Or does this intense connection to the land come from my now very watered down American Indian blood? (One percent American Indian according to testing. Kick A Poo according to mom and an aunt.) Perhaps some ancient American Indian deity influences?
So my question, for everyone would be, is there some genetic, spiritual, unknown pull that draws us to certain deities, religions, and the earth itself in terms of our belief systems?
I read the article, not a deep read, but I read it, so thanks. It was interesting. I didn’t realize how many “split offs” there were from the Jewish faith in early times, or that some of those split offsdied out early. (I also remember hearing the Isaiah quote from my younger days.)
Our family, through my mother, is of Irish decent. I often wondered if that had some vague influence on why I decided to be baptized catholic instead of southern Baptist except for my great respect of Mother Mary and the role she played. I have never been able to overcome some of my early Baptist beliefs which I keep solely to myself. I view those beliefs as rather too harsh for today’s world. They were probably too harsh for yesterday’s world. This is my opinion, not a judgement.
The Jewish faith, or race, interest me as (as other wandering races such as Gypsies) in a limited way. I’ve never understood if early wandering people were a religious group, a race, or both. I still don’t know. I am speaking historically. I know the Jewish people believed in the God of the Old Testament. What early god did Gypsies believe in?
My family stories indicated that some German Jews, through my father’s line, were in our genealogy. Interestingly enough, my nephew, raised Christian, married a Jewish woman and converted to the Jewish faith. His children are, of course, Jewish. I often think the children, grandchildren of farmers are drawn to the land even if they have never seen or been on a farm.
American Indians have close ties to the land as well. I love to raise veggies, flowers, work in the dirt. Is this a product of my grandparents being farmers? Or does this intense connection to the land come from my now very watered down American Indian blood? (One percent American Indian according to testing. Kick A Poo according to mom and an aunt.) Perhaps some ancient American Indian deity influences?
So my question, for everyone would be, is there some genetic, spiritual, unknown pull that draws us to certain deities, religions, and the earth itself in terms of our belief systems?
fuzzybuddy
SF VIP
- Location
- The Sticks, Northeast PA.
So my question, for everyone would be, is there some genetic, spiritual, unknown pull that draws us to certain deities, religions, and the earth itself in terms of our belief systems?
No. All religions are death ideation.
No. All religions are death ideation.
Happyflowerlady
Vagabond Flowerchild
- Location
- Northern Alabama
Seeker, I have respect for your religious beliefs. As I have said, in the forum for years, is no ones religious ideation is more valid or better in any way. than anyone elses. So, explain to me why there are threads in this forum, which proselytized Christianity, under the guise of religious discussions. Ya know maybe I don't want to read about god's one true son Jesus Christ. The WAY. ETC, ETC, Nor do I want to believe in Mary, or any Christian icons. I don't have to hear about the "momentous" events of Easter" I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN!!!!! What gives Christians the right to babble on about the tenets of their religion? And why am I supposed to believe in only one god? Furthermore I don't want to be called a sinner. This forum is not a Christian Sunday school.
And when atheists talk about religion, there get the very "Christian" response of shut up, go away, " if you feel offended don't read it".
The basic idea of any forum is that people have conversations about a variety of topics, especially on a Seniors’ Forum like this one. Obviously, there will be topics that we are interested in, and topics that we are not going to be interested in, and there is NO requirement to participate in every discussion if you have nothing to impart to that topic.
As an example, I could care less about any kind of sports, so I don’t even look at sports threads when there are any. Let the people who have some knowledge and interest participate.
People who have a belief in God, like to discuss this topic, and there is no reason why it can’t be done on the forum, just like cooking, or financial investments, or any other topic.
Since you stated that you have no interest in even reading about anything concerning religion, it completely baffles me as to WHY you (and other atheists) are here protesting a thread just because it does not interest you personally ?? ?
Very interesting thread!
Captain Lightning, thanks for the Stephen Fry interview. That pretty much summarizes my take on the subject also. It has occurred to me many times that if there really was a deity "up there" somewhere who fits the description in human prayer and in "sacred texts," he/she/it would be the worst depiction of a human tyrant. Cruel, capricious, playing favorites, narcicisstic, demanding constant pledges of loyalty and love for himself... what human being would we like or respect who acted like that? And Fry's mention of those terrible childhood diseases is just the tip of the iceberg. Why is God always given the credit when someone is saved from a disaster, but not the blame when all those innocent people are not saved?
Aneeda 72,
Leave the green bean discussion to those who like green beans, eh? How about people knocking on your door giving you the "good news" about green beans? What about the incessant drumbeat from many of the faithful green bean lovers, to have everybody else come around to their opinion of this vegetable, and smugly insisting that theirs is the only choice of vegetable that is valid?
Those who keep rattling on about how wonderful green beans are must be prepared to hear the opinions of those who differ.
Captain Lightning, thanks for the Stephen Fry interview. That pretty much summarizes my take on the subject also. It has occurred to me many times that if there really was a deity "up there" somewhere who fits the description in human prayer and in "sacred texts," he/she/it would be the worst depiction of a human tyrant. Cruel, capricious, playing favorites, narcicisstic, demanding constant pledges of loyalty and love for himself... what human being would we like or respect who acted like that? And Fry's mention of those terrible childhood diseases is just the tip of the iceberg. Why is God always given the credit when someone is saved from a disaster, but not the blame when all those innocent people are not saved?
Aneeda 72,
Leave the green bean discussion to those who like green beans, eh? How about people knocking on your door giving you the "good news" about green beans? What about the incessant drumbeat from many of the faithful green bean lovers, to have everybody else come around to their opinion of this vegetable, and smugly insisting that theirs is the only choice of vegetable that is valid?
Those who keep rattling on about how wonderful green beans are must be prepared to hear the opinions of those who differ.